Tariffs on oil

[bellisarius]

is threatened if the battle between Putin and the Saudi's doesn't end.

 

[InsightRiot]

That’s good with me. I want Americans using American resources.

Tariffs, fuck yeah, let’s do it! Lets win this trade war!

 

[bellisarius]

It's a brilliant move. If they don't come to their senses the domestic industry is protected, if they do then everything goes back to regular market conditions. So either way Putin's gambit is checked.

 

[sygn]

Hei bellisarius, could you please start a thread about another fascinating topic:

the geopolitics of South China Sea as a hot trillions/year trading corridor,
and why the increased Chinese military presence there lately?

I started a thread myself but nobody posted lol

 

[Hugh_Essay]

Hei bellisarius, could you please start a thread about another fascinating topic:

the geopolitics of South China Sea as a hot trillions/year trading corridor,
and why the increased Chinese military presence there lately?

I started a thread myself but nobody posted lol

How pathetic are you? Holy fuck.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

It's a brilliant move. If they don't come to their senses the domestic industry is protected, if they do then everything goes back to regular market conditions. So either way Putin's gambit is checked.

So I am bit confused on how this is supposed to work?

Right now, we have depressed oil prices,due to the price war between Russia and the Saudis. One issue in the US is with the Fracking of Oil has become too expensive to produce due to the low cost of off shore oil leading to lay offs and bankruptcies.

With a depressed economy, regular oil prices have also plummeted due to a drop in local demands (USA) and a high inventory of oil. This has lead to a continuation of low rack wholesale prices.

Other oil producing countries are also stuck with high inventories, and production costs exceeding the selling price. Which has also resulted in stalled production in certain segments such as oil sands and offshore wells.

So given the above, in which there is no need for "high production cost oil" due to a massive drop in demand and a bloated inventory. Where is the need for massive imports in the US of Opec etc oil.

I can't see the answer is to place a Tariff on imported oil? Why? To drive up the cost where Fracking etc becomes profitable, when right now there is no demand for oil?

 

[sygn]

How pathetic are you? Holy fuck.

I'm not trying to suck up.
I'd just like a thread about that, because it's related to the USS Roosevelt - Brett Crozier drama.

 

[Rightguide]

is threatened if the battle between Putin and the Saudi's doesn't end.

Put America first.

 

[bellisarius]

So I am bit confused on how this is supposed to work?

Right now, we have depressed oil prices,due to the price war between Russia and the Saudis. One issue in the US is with the Fracking of Oil has become too expensive to produce due to the low cost of off shore oil leading to lay offs and bankruptcies.

With a depressed economy, regular oil prices have also plummeted due to a drop in local demands (USA) and a high inventory of oil. This has lead to a continuation of low rack wholesale prices.

Other oil producing countries are also stuck with high inventories, and production costs exceeding the selling price. Which has also resulted in stalled production in certain segments such as oil sands and offshore wells.

So given the above, in which there is no need for "high production cost oil" due to a massive drop in demand and a bloated inventory. Where is the need for massive imports in the US of Opec etc oil.

I can't see the answer is to place a Tariff on imported oil? Why? To drive up the cost where Fracking etc becomes profitable, when right now there is no demand for oil?

Those inventories aren't going to last forever and I doubt that the low cost of oil is entirely due to the Russia/Saudi price war. The fact that our governors have decided to shut the economy down is also a major contributory factor. Those shut downs start ending this week.

The reason Trump hasn't imposed a tariff yet is because oil importation isn't a problem yet. The operative word being "Yet."

The threat, in and of itself, is a spur in the ass of both of those nations to resolve their differences and reach an agreement. If they don't Trump can play the tariff card.

I see in the news this AM that those nations are talking and allegedly near an agreement which indicates to me that they were given a "heads up" regarding Trump's announcement.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Those inventories aren't going to last forever and I doubt that the low cost of oil is entirely due to the Russia/Saudi price war. The fact that our governors have decided to shut the economy down is also a major contributory factor.

True the drop in use ( and bloating crude inventories) is due to the world economic shut down not just in the US. The world oil capacity now far exceeds the worlds demand for crude oil. As such we do understand that excessive product for a diminished demand leads to depressed prices as everyone races to the bottom to sell what they have.

Those shut downs start ending this week.

That may happen, but it is not happening currently anywhere out side of China.

The reason Trump hasn't imposed a tariff yet is because oil importation isn't a problem yet. The operative word being "Yet."

The above again goes back to me original question, I fail to see how driving up the price of imported oil to the US benefits anyone but US oil producers. Yes people return to work in the oil industry, but everyone in the US will then pay an artificial price which is higher than the world price.

The threat, in and of itself, is a spur in the ass of both of those nations to resolve their differences and reach an agreement. If they don't Trump can play the tariff card.

As I said earlier, I fail to see where a Tariff would matter to Russia or the Saudis.

From the Canadian perspective, as a Country we are energy self sufficient, have been since the 1970's. However we have a logistics issue on crude. We have refineries in both Alberta and the East Coast. Which have the capacity to supply all our petroleum needs. But we do not have an efficient method to transport Crude from our major oil producing regions to the East Coast. As such we import oil from overseas to the East Coast.

The East Coast refineries produce about 65% of all our petroleum products, and the Alberta ones the remainder for the Western provinces. Since the amount of oil we produce far exceeds the capacity of Alberta's refineries production, or needs, we have for decades shipped (sold) this excess to the US.

That profit, the difference between what it cost to import oil over what profit is made by selling to the US more than offsets' the OPEC oil imports costs.

Now if Trump moved to place a Tariff on imported Canadian oil ( in direct violation of NAFTA btw) one of three things would occur, the US importers would pay the Tariff driving up the Crude cost to Americans, or Canada would expand the east pipeline, sending our crude to the east coast ( that plan has been examined and is viable).
Or we would be looking to export more of the western crude though the west coast pipeline to other markets.

Canadian producers would not pay a Tariff to ship into the US, that idea is like a rock trying to float in the water.

I see in the news this AM that those nations are talking and allegedly near an agreement which indicates to me that they were given a "heads up" regarding Trump's announcement.

While suspect the two countries got caught and are both losing dearly, I really fail to see how an import Tariff by a "net energy exporter" like the US is, would move the bar much on the Russia/Saudi dispute.

 

[bellisarius]

True the drop in use ( and bloating crude inventories) is due to the world economic shut down not just in the US. The world oil capacity now far exceeds the worlds demand for crude oil. As such we do understand that excessive product for a diminished demand leads to depressed prices as everyone races to the bottom to sell what they have.



That may happen, but it is not happening currently anywhere out side of China.



The above again goes back to me original question, I fail to see how driving up the price of imported oil to the US benefits anyone but US oil producers. Yes people return to work in the oil industry, but everyone in the US will then pay an artificial price which is higher than the world price.




As I said earlier, I fail to see where a Tariff would matter to Russia or the Saudis.

From the Canadian perspective, as a Country we are energy self sufficient, have been since the 1970's. However we have a logistics issue on crude. We have refineries in both Alberta and the East Coast. Which have the capacity to supply all our petroleum needs. But we do not have an efficient method to transport Crude from our major oil producing regions to the East Coast. As such we import oil from overseas to the East Coast.

The East Coast refineries produce about 65% of all our petroleum products, and the Alberta ones the remainder for the Western provinces. Since the amount of oil we produce far exceeds the capacity of Alberta's refineries production, or needs, we have for decades shipped (sold) this excess to the US.

That profit, the difference between what it cost to import oil over what profit is made by selling to the US more than offsets' the OPEC oil imports costs.

Now if Trump moved to place a Tariff on imported Canadian oil ( in direct violation of NAFTA btw) one of three things would occur, the US importers would pay the Tariff driving up the Crude cost to Americans, or Canada would expand the east pipeline, sending our crude to the east coast ( that plan has been examined and is viable).
Or we would be looking to export more of the western crude though the west coast pipeline to other markets.

Canadian producers would not pay a Tariff to ship into the US, that idea is like a rock trying to float in the water.



While suspect the two countries got caught and are both losing dearly, I really fail to see how an import Tariff by a "net energy exporter" like the US is, would move the bar much on the Russia/Saudi dispute.

The whole point of the tariff would be to protect our domestic producers.

You Canucks might want to consider doing the same to protect your western fields.

 

[chillywilly2]

What a US tariff does is let Trump jump on his high horse and tell all his followers what he did for them and get a great big Rah Rah Rah, which being the looser he is, he desperatly needs.
It really does nothing for the country ..but...whatever, we been dealing with this idiot for 3 1/2 years now

 

[chillywilly2]

The whole point of the tariff would be to protect our domestic producers.

You Canucks might want to consider doing the same to protect your western fields.

What we should do is stop shipping you raw materials for surgical masks

And the domestic oil producers will be just fine...why would you want government interfering with free enterprise

 

[bigsly]

What we should do is stop shipping you raw materials for surgical masks

OUCH!

Maybe not as seriously threatening as Wrong Element's and RoryN's now infamous "I'll remember...", but no doubt just as significantly meaningless.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The whole point of the tariff would be to protect our domestic producers.

You Canucks might want to consider doing the same to protect your western fields.

Protect them against what?

Our production cost, (tar sands excepted) are on par or cheaper if you put in the CND/USD exchange with the US.

Is there an answer in there to my question on "how do Tariffs help? BTW

 

[Fuzzy1975]

What we should do is stop shipping you raw materials for surgical masks

Oh I can guaranty that is going to happen, even 3M tried to warn him. Trump stealing our's ( and other countries) orders of PPE supplies which were purchased from the beginning of March, to cover up his own inaction is not about to go unanswered.

He is now directly attempting to kill Canadians over this....

It will be interesting to see if those 3 million masks cross the border or not...

 

[SpeareChucker]

What a US tariff does is let Trump jump on his high horse and tell all his followers what he did for them and get a great big Rah Rah Rah, which being the looser he is, he desperatly needs.
It really does nothing for the country ..but...whatever, we been dealing with this idiot for 3 1/2 years now

The Progressive projections from the beginning were
runaway inflation, trade wars and then actual war...



:shrug:


And I am very much anti-tariff,
in a perfect world, but when your trading partner subsidizes,
runs state enterprises and uses, pretty much, slave labor, then
they deserve some punishment for not being a good player/trader...

 

[chillywilly2]

The Progressive projections from the beginning were
runaway inflation, trade wars and then actual war...



:shrug:


And I am very much anti-tariff,
in a perfect world, but when your trading partner subsidizes,
runs state enterprises and uses, pretty much, slave labor, then
they deserve some punishment for not being a good player/trader...

Geez...I didn't think the US did all that so much...learn something every day
I knew you were real into subsidizing dairy and poultry but oil too?

 

[Lancecastor19]

Don't forget the softwood, lumberjack.

 

[SpeareChucker]

That's a political, not economic act.



And look, if you're not going to be serious, why bother?
It sure as hell doesn't make you look any smarter;
the opposite, in fact...

 

[chillywilly2]

That's a political, not economic act.



And look, if you're not going to be serious, why bother?
It sure as hell doesn't make you look any smarter;
the opposite, in fact...

It runs both ways.

You know for a fact that your dairy and poultry is heavily subsidized.

Tarrif all the oil you want but Canadian should be off limits.
Without even a hint of it not being so
Trump is constantly yapping and backing down when the smarter people slap him.
It just pisses everybody off

And the mask material does come from Canada

 

[SpeareChucker]

And, it should not be, but those people vote too...

But those are not critical industries like steel and manufacturing
and that is the difference. The Chicomms would never do anything
to help out their farmers. They have too many of them.
They've even starved them to death...

 

[Lancecastor19]

You Canucks might want to consider doing the same to protect your western fields.

Truth.

What strain of retardation is required to ship oil from Athabaska to Louisiana for refining?

Why Canada exports its water, oil, uranium, potash and mustard to the USA is a mystery to me.

 

[bigsly]

I was pondering whether Socialist Canuckville would make at least little league practice for wargaming threats as its older bro Communist China loves to issue...

And then I laughed at the sheer impotency of such an utterly vasectomized thought.

 

[Lancecastor19]

I was pondering whether Socialist Canuckville would make at least little league practice for wargaming threats as its older bro Communist China loves to issue...

And then I laughed at the sheer impotency of such an utterly vasectomized thought.

http://www.mingpaocanada.com/Tor/