Talmudic Thoughts For the Day

[dr_mabeuse]

Been cautiously dipping my spiritual toes back into the texts of my ancestral religion, encouraged by the discovery that being an agnostic or even an atheist is no barrier to being a Jew.

It's some rich stuff. Two ideas from the Talmud:

"Whatever you think about most, that's your God."

"Whatever you think about God, that's what he thinks about you."

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I like this, thanks Zoot.

 

[Recidiva]

Sex is my God and God is awesome if a bit weird.

Works for me.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

"Whatever you think about most, that's your God."

"Whatever you think about God, that's what he thinks about you."


Death is my God and he hates me...

wow.

Got some re-thinking to do...

 

[Sex and Death]

"Whatever you think about most, that's your God."

"Whatever you think about God, that's what he thinks about you."

Love is my God, and he feels unworthy.

 

[Straight-8]

Been cautiously dipping my spiritual toes back into the texts of my ancestral religion, encouraged by the discovery that being an agnostic or even an atheist is no barrier to being a Jew.

It's some rich stuff. Two ideas from the Talmud:

"Whatever you think about most, that's your God."

"Whatever you think about God, that's what he thinks about you."

And exactly where in the talmud do these ideas come from? The major religious development of Judaism was monotheism. If there is only one god, and a jealous and (very) vengeful god it is absurd to suggest that you personally get to define him. I guess the god defined by those lucky souls in Sodom and Gomorrah just thought bad thoughts - c'mon! And all that stuff in the bible about smiting the philistines (cause they defined their god(s) differently) - was that just eye-wash?

I find it a rather bizarre statement that being an atheist is no bar to being a Jew. What do you mean? culturally? Certainly it is an absolute bar religiously. As a fairly rabid atheist (who has studied religions) I resent that.

The Jewish religion developed a strict priestly caste and secular government to define and promote a new religious theory of 'one god'. No separation of church and state. Jews were the chosen people and everybody else (pagan) was doomed (so much for your pluralism).

The idea was a success. Moslems and christians developed the theory in their own way. That's why there is so much peace in the world - tolerance!

 

[matriarch]

............

I find it a rather bizarre statement that being an atheist is no bar to being a Jew. What do you mean? culturally? Certainly it is an absolute bar religiously. As a fairly rabid atheist (who has studied religions) I resent that.

The Jewish religion developed a strict priestly caste and secular government to define and promote a new religious theory of 'one god'. No separation of church and state. Jews were the chosen people and everybody else (pagan) was doomed (so much for your pluralism).

As far as I am aware, in the 21st century, there definitely is separation of state and religion.

There is 'Jew', as one who practices the Jewish faith, and 'Jew', a member of the Jewish nation, a secular citizen of the Jewish nation.

Am I right, Doc??

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Talmudic Judaism is a bit different from old-style Judaism. It's a different animal, with different views of God. Things change, including religions.

 

[Sex and Death]

And exactly where in the talmud do these ideas come from? The major religious development of Judaism was monotheism. If there is only one god, and a jealous and (very) vengeful god it is absurd to suggest that you personally get to define him. I guess the god defined by those lucky souls in Sodom and Gomorrah just thought bad thoughts - c'mon! And all that stuff in the bible about smiting the philistines (cause they defined their god(s) differently) - was that just eye-wash?

I find it a rather bizarre statement that being an atheist is no bar to being a Jew. What do you mean? culturally? Certainly it is an absolute bar religiously. As a fairly rabid atheist (who has studied religions) I resent that.

The Jewish religion developed a strict priestly caste and secular government to define and promote a new religious theory of 'one god'. No separation of church and state. Jews were the chosen people and everybody else (pagan) was doomed (so much for your pluralism).

The idea was a success. Moslems and christians developed the theory in their own way. That's why there is so much peace in the world - tolerance!

Religion and spirituality are two very different things.

You allow your anger at religion to abort your spirituality.

Actually, you're a step ahead of most who allow their denial of spirituality to bind them to religion.

If you see the buddha on the road...

S&D

 

[BlackShanglan]

Been cautiously dipping my spiritual toes back into the texts of my ancestral religion, encouraged by the discovery that being an agnostic or even an atheist is no barrier to being a Jew.

It's some rich stuff. Two ideas from the Talmud:

"Whatever you think about most, that's your God."

"Whatever you think about God, that's what he thinks about you."

Fascinating ramifications there. Thanks for the post, Dr. M.

 

[angela146]

There is 'Jew', as one who practices the Jewish faith, and 'Jew', a member of the Jewish nation, a secular citizen of the Jewish nation. Am I right, Doc??

There is also the familial definition. Anyone who is a descendant of Isreal by birth or adoption or conversion is a Jew regardless of their belief system.

 

[angela146]

Jews were the chosen people and everybody else (pagan) was doomed (so much for your pluralism).

Uh, the word is "gentile".

"Pagan" refers to the "country dwellers" of the Roman Empire who stayed with the "old" religions after the empire adopted Christianity.

Technically all Jews who did not adopt Christianity are pagans.

 

[angela146]

And exactly where in the talmud do these ideas come from? The major religious development of Judaism was monotheism. If there is only one god, and a jealous and (very) vengeful god it is absurd to suggest that you personally get to define him. I guess the god defined by those lucky souls in Sodom and Gomorrah just thought bad thoughts - c'mon! And all that stuff in the bible about smiting the philistines (cause they defined their god(s) differently) - was that just eye-wash?

No. There is only one god for the children of Israel. The first commandment is "I am The Lord your God... You [the children of Israel] shall have no other gods before me..."

The implication is that other people can worship other gods but not you guys.

Now that I've said all that, would someone please check the Hebrew and see if that is a fair translation?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Personally, I find it amusing when someone tries to tell someone else what that other person's religion is and means. I can't imagine that anyone could know better than the believer himself what it is that he believes, but there is a sort of beauty in the quixotic determination of those wishing to prove otherwise. Hatred tends to undercut the beauty, though.

 

[AchtungNight]

Personally, I find it amusing when someone tries to tell someone else what that other person's religion is and means. I can't imagine that anyone could know better than the believer himself what it is that he believes, but there is a sort of beauty in the quixotic determination of those wishing to prove otherwise. Hatred tends to undercut the beauty, though.

Amen. That's why any good religious characters in my work (like Erika, Reddick, and back in the day Father Thomas Greene) are without hatred. I think Erika somewhat shares your sense of humor, Shang. As do I.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

does EVERY thread have to turn into a debate!?


Lay s'more Talmudic wisdom on us, Doc...

I need a spiritual hit...

 

[minsue]

My god is the British Consulate. *sigh*

 

[Samandiriel]

does EVERY thread have to turn into a debate!?


Lay s'more Talmudic wisdom on us, Doc...

I need a spiritual hit...

DItto!!!

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

does EVERY thread have to turn into a debate!?

Not at all - they can also turn into innuendo-laden sexual banter. This place is multi-faceted. (Does two count as multi-?)

 

[Selena_Kitt]

(Does two count as multi-?)

*snort*

not if it's orgasms... <big grin>

 

[Tom Collins]

*snort*

not if it's orgasms... <big grin>

Unless you're a man.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Unless you're a man.

well... not MY man... he can do more than one...

 

[Tom Collins]

well... not MY man... he can do more than one...

I think it's written that if a woman should find a multi-orgasmic man then "Thou shouldst lock him up and hide the key," to keep away the vultures, "For Thou art truely bessed by God.".

 

[Straight-8]

No. There is only one god for the children of Israel. The first commandment is "I am The Lord your God... You [the children of Israel] shall have no other gods before me..."

Yeah, that's my point (although whether the first commandment is only directed to the israelites is a matter of debate). You can't be an atheist and a jew (in the religious sense) at the same time. If you want to call yourself a jew (religious) you have to buy into a set of beliefs - the first and foremost of which is 'one god'. Christians and moslems do too (although you could argue christians are polytheists)

Pagan/gentile - semantics of translation.

 

[Pure]

hi doc,

interesting thread. great quote.

iirc correcly it's the Talmud which says,

"the best revenge is to live well."