Tags

[SkyBubble]

Has anyone found the ten-tag limited a bit, well, limiting? (They have the same limit over at Lush.) Sometimes my stories have more than ten tags that I consider appropriate.

At AO3, the fandoms and tags together can go as high as a total of 75. Taht might be a bit excessive, but if we could get 15 or 20, we might be able to draw more readers to our stories, which moves them up in a search queue and might help bring more readers to Lit.

 

[THBGato]

Wattpad doesn't seem to have a limit on tags either.

I'm ambivalent. For some stories, I struggle to think of tags 9 & 10; for others one or two more would be great.

 

[SyleusSnow]

I don't find it limiting either, most of the time. There's enough tag sprawl as it is. Allowing too many would just contribute to that.

Be lovely if the site suggested tags, especially more widely used alternatives when you enter a little-used one. Wordpress does that to a certain extent.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I’ve only occasionally felt limited, and typically if two places were taken by “Comp / Event” and “Comp / Event [year].”

 

[SkyBubble]

I don't find it limiting either, most of the time. There's enough tag sprawl as it is. Allowing too many would just contribute to that.

Be lovely if the site suggested tags, especially more widely used alternatives when you enter a little-used one. Wordpress does that to a certain extent.

Lush and AO3 do that.

 

[SkyBubble]

I’ve only occasionally felt limited, and typically if two places were taken by “Comp / Event” and “Comp / Event [year].”

I've only had two or three stories where I've felt limited, but I really could have used two or three more tags on those couple of stories.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Ten tag limit is one of the good things about Lit's system. More would be okay if there were a system that distinguished between major and minor tags, but sadly, no story site has such a system.

More than ten tags would lead to the chaos that AO3 is. I don't know what people who run it thought, but their tagging system sucks so bad for anyone who isn't fixated on fandoms. And even for those who write fanfic, it's still too much of a mess.

 

[caleb35]

Has anyone found the ten-tag limited a bit, well, limiting? (They have the same limit over at Lush.) Sometimes my stories have more than ten tags that I consider appropriate.

At AO3, the fandoms and tags together can go as high as a total of 75. Taht might be a bit excessive, but if we could get 15 or 20, we might be able to draw more readers to our stories, which moves them up in a search queue and might help bring more readers to Lit.

...eh, yes and no. Let me elaborate -- while I don't care for a limit on tags in general, I think we should all admit that 10 tags should be sufficient for anyone to get across what the major themes/topics of the story are. Further, 10 tags (or maybe a number close to it, such as 12 or 15) should be sufficient if there was some clean-up of the existing tags. To the extent that I bump up against the 10-tag limit on Literotica, it's because I'm using multiple tags for the same thing because I don't know which is better to use (or will attract more readers). For example, do we really need a tag for "lesbian" and a separate one for "lesbian sex"? Are we going with "reluctant" or "reluctance"?

 

[Writer61]

I think ten is enough. It prompts you to consider the most significant themes without being restrictive.

 

[IWroteThis]

For example, do we really need a tag for "lesbian" and a separate one for "lesbian sex"?

If I was redesigning the site, I'd make category multiple choice rather than a single selection. Then you wouldn't need to put either of those in the tags.

It could also improve the search functionality by allowing you to specify Yes/No/Maybe for each category.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

...eh, yes and no. Let me elaborate -- while I don't care for a limit on tags in general, I think we should all admit that 10 tags should be sufficient for anyone to get across what the major themes/topics of the story are. Further, 10 tags (or maybe a number close to it, such as 12 or 15) should be sufficient if there was some clean-up of the existing tags. To the extent that I bump up against the 10-tag limit on Literotica, it's because I'm using multiple tags for the same thing because I don't know which is better to use (or will attract more readers). For example, do we really need a tag for "lesbian" and a separate one for "lesbian sex"? Are we going with "reluctant" or "reluctance"?

You're thinking of tags as a way to find stories. They're also a way to avoid stories. If someone absolutely can't stand the thought of mother-son sex, that tag might be useful to them as a "skip" signal.

So, for a long story, it might have 3 "main" tags, say Romance, Teasing, Outdoor Sex. It might also have tags for Voyeurism, Anal sex, Masturbation, Menstruation, Blood, etc. so that someone who is nauseated by, for example, the very thought of blood can just skip the story.

--Annie

 

[THBGato]

If I was redesigning the site, I'd make category multiple choice rather than a single selection. Then you wouldn't need to put either of those in the tags.

The problem with that is people would abuse it. You'd get stories put in Lesbian Sex because two girls make out at some point even though the main focus is a straight couple. You'd also get some cynics sticking their story in every category in an attempt to get more readers. Maybe if you could select a max of three categories it might work... (pretty much all of mine could go in either First Time or Romance or both, as well as Lesbian).

 

[IWroteThis]

The problem with that is people would abuse it. You'd get stories put in Lesbian Sex because two girls make out at some point even though the main focus is a straight couple. You'd also get some cynics sticking their story in every category in an attempt to get more readers. Maybe if you could select a max of three categories it might work... (pretty much all of mine could go in either First Time or Romance or both, as well as Lesbian).

I don't really see that as abuse. If a story includes Lesbian Sex, why not be upfront about it. It's not as big of an issue as unexpected Gay Male is with certain readers, but having it clearly denoted can save writers a lot of grief over low ratings and harsh comments. The situation you described could also be fixed by adding a Straight category so that all couplings can be properly documented.

On a related note, I think the Threesome tag is useless unless you also include MMF and/or MFF. I tend to skip it in favor of the specific combination if I have a lot of tags, but I know it's the more popular tag search of the three, so I'm probably hurting my stories long term by not including it.

 

[THBGato]

I don't really see that as abuse. If a story includes Lesbian Sex, why not be upfront about it.

Let me try to explain my point of view (and I'm not pretending it's anything other than mine).

In terms of tags, I've no problem with "lesbian" or "lesbian sex" being used. In fact, for stories in Sci Fi or NN (for instance) those are really helpful for finding stuff I want to read.

However, you were proposing allowing writers to post to multiple categories. That would result in stories appearing in Lesbian Sex that weren't driven by love/sex between two women. E.g. stories where two girls fuck each other to entertain their boyfriends, but ultimately remain with their boyfriends. Even worse, imagine it was told from the boyfriend's pov. Such stories wouldn't go down well with most lesbian readers for obvious reasons! Plus, if there were loads of them flooding the category, it would make it harder to find the type of stories those readers do enjoy.

Plus, it's not just Lesbian. Imagine a story placed in the Anal category (as well as, say, Sci Fi and EC) that only festures 3 sentences describing the act. I imagine most Anal (and anal) readers would be disappointed.

 

[iwatchus]

Let me try to explain my point of view (and I'm not pretending it's anything other than mine).

In terms of tags, I've no problem with "lesbian" or "lesbian sex" being used. In fact, for stories in Sci Fi or NN (for instance) those are really helpful for finding stuff I want to read.

However, you were proposing allowing writers to post to multiple categories. That would result in stories appearing in Lesbian Sex that weren't driven by love/sex between two women. E.g. stories where two girls fuck each other to entertain their boyfriends, but ultimately remain with their boyfriends. Even worse, imagine it was told from the boyfriend's pov. Such stories wouldn't go down well with most lesbian readers for obvious reasons! Plus, if there were loads of them flooding the category, it would make it harder to find the type of stories those readers do enjoy.

Plus, it's not just Lesbian. Imagine a story placed in the Anal category (as well as, say, Sci Fi and EC) that only festures 3 sentences describing the act. I imagine most Anal (and anal) readers would be disappointed.

I strongly agree with this sentiment.

Way over generalizing, I think there are two kinds of readers. One who reads for particular kinks (using the term very generally); they want stories that include certain sexual acts, and they want the tags to give them a menu to construct the day's perfect combination of acts. Today they want to watch two women go at it, see some anal and maybe a little light bondage (I think I wrote the perfect story for them)

Other people want a particular emotional form, with acts that fit that form. This is especially true in LS. I think, too often, the former group doesn't understand the latter group. As a reader, I have been in both camps. As a writer, I have come to much prefer writing for this latter group. I will write occasional stories in the former category, almost as a mental cleanser, but almost all my effort now goes to the latter.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm awful with tags, I generally only use 6 or 7 and they're not that creative.

But I've done well here which has always made me wonder how important they are.

I think the author's name is an important tag in itself with some readers.

 

[iwatchus]

I'm a firm believer that tags are very important for SOME readers, which means some categories and some stories. My expectation is that the majority of readers never look at the tags. For writers writing for the readers who do care, they are very important. For others, it probably only matters around the edges. Using good tags will help every writer, but it is not crucial to most.

 

[SkyBubble]

Ten tag limit is one of the good things about Lit's system. More would be okay if there were a system that distinguished between major and minor tags, but sadly, no story site has such a system.

More than ten tags would lead to the chaos that AO3 is. I don't know what people who run it thought, but their tagging system sucks so bad for anyone who isn't fixated on fandoms. And even for those who write fanfic, it's still too much of a mess.

I'm not saying they should go to 75 like AO3, but, say, 12 would be helpful.

 

[SkyBubble]

The problem with that is people would abuse it. You'd get stories put in Lesbian Sex because two girls make out at some point even though the main focus is a straight couple. You'd also get some cynics sticking their story in every category in an attempt to get more readers. Maybe if you could select a max of three categories it might work... (pretty much all of mine could go in either First Time or Romance or both, as well as Lesbian).

I have stories that could fit more than one category. The one I have in pending now could fit E&V or Erotic Couplings. I hve stories about celebrities' first times.

 

[SkyBubble]

If I was redesigning the site, I'd make category multiple choice rather than a single selection.

If a story fits more than one category, I'll usually pick the one I think fits best, then use the other one as a tag.

 

[IWroteThis]

Let me try to explain my point of view (and I'm not pretending it's anything other than mine).

In terms of tags, I've no problem with "lesbian" or "lesbian sex" being used. In fact, for stories in Sci Fi or NN (for instance) those are really helpful for finding stuff I want to read.

However, you were proposing allowing writers to post to multiple categories. That would result in stories appearing in Lesbian Sex that weren't driven by love/sex between two women. E.g. stories where two girls fuck each other to entertain their boyfriends, but ultimately remain with their boyfriends. Even worse, imagine it was told from the boyfriend's pov. Such stories wouldn't go down well with most lesbian readers for obvious reasons! Plus, if there were loads of them flooding the category, it would make it harder to find the type of stories those readers do enjoy.

Plus, it's not just Lesbian. Imagine a story placed in the Anal category (as well as, say, Sci Fi and EC) that only festures 3 sentences describing the act. I imagine most Anal (and anal) readers would be disappointed.

I agree that no system is perfect, but you seem to be comparing the negatives of my suggestion to the positives of the current one. The current system does not stop anybody from posting their story in the wrong category, whether by accident or intent, so nothing really changes there. In fact, in the case of stories that belong in multiple categories, which may be more common than those that fit in only one, the best outcome is that it ends up in one of the correct categories. That's not a given and, when it does happen, you can't expect it to end up in the best choice.

I'll also agree that not all sites are the same, but I don't see the kind of abuse you predict happening on the site I've seen it used on. Maybe they have better moderators, or maybe the threat of a category being excluded in a reader's search keeps them honest. I don't know, but I know it works there.

 

[Nightaelf]

I think 10 tags is perfectly fine, because it forces you to really think about which audience you want to reach with your story, instead of adding so many tags that they end up blurring the overall picture.

What I’d also really like is the option to add a short summary of your story, just like the blurb on the back of a book. I always read the back of a book first, because it helps me decide whether it’s interesting enough to buy or to read. It’s the same thing here, really. That current limit of sixty characters for a summary just isn’t enough. It would be great if there were a space at the top of each story page where you could include a short description.

 

[SimonDoom]

I haven't considered it to be too limiting. Plus, I look at it from the reader's point of view. If you multiply the number of tags then you multiply the number of stories that readers will get in response to their tags. Plus, you will give some advantage to recent stories relative to older stories bound to the 10 tag limit. I think it's fine. It forces you as an author to consider your tag choices wisely, which works for everybody's benefit.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I'd settle for culling some of the misspellings and redundant tags.
Impossible with the free form style I know.

 

[iwatchus]

I'd settle for culling some of the misspellings and redundant tags.
Impossible with the free form style I know.

If they (Manu I guess) had time (they don't) and it was a priority (it isn't), cleaning up the vast majority of these would be straightforward technically, even for older stories.