Swinging

[intothewoods]

Bunny and your exchange aside, I was kind of thinking it was sweet that a lot of people here were concerned you might be pushed too far, too fast.

 

[intothewoods]

Bunny and your exchange aside, I was kind of thinking it was sweet that a lot of people here were concerned you might be pushed too far, too fast.

 

[BiBunny]

So it's all Bunny's fault for pointing out what nobody thinks of until it's presented to them, eh? Perhaps, Gigi, if you'd thought this through before you posted it, it might have gone over better. Furthermore, nobody here is a damned mind reader, either. If you want us to weigh all the information before posting, it would behoove you to give us all the information. The way it was presented, I don't know how you could've expected someone NOT to have strong feelings about it.

And for the record, you don't know a damned thing about me, either, so don't throw that tired old line up in my face as some kind of defense for the ill-thought-out post you made. Perhaps if you had walked a mile in someone else's shoes you might understand where my posts were coming from.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I'll take my "assuming" ass out of this thread and let you get back to the lovefest you so obviously desired when you started it.

 

[SweetGigi]

Good riddance.

(blocked)

Bunny and your exchange aside, I was kind of thinking it was sweet that a lot of people here were concerned you might be pushed too far, too fast.

Oh i totally agree that it was very thoughtful of others to be concerned. I appreciate good intentions. It's the assumptions that I don't, nor anyone else, appreciate.



No matter how little or how much information is provided, it gives no one the right to assume anything. Like I said, next time just ask.

 

[FurryFury]

I was concerned for you. I felt a need to say so. I actually felt it would be cowardly not to say something. This is what I do with all my friends. I speak my piece first. Then I support them doing whatever they do, even if I an still worried for them.

 

[intothewoods]

So it's all Bunny's fault for pointing out what nobody thinks of until it's presented to them, eh? Perhaps, Gigi, if you'd thought this through before you posted it, it might have gone over better. Furthermore, nobody here is a damned mind reader, either. If you want us to weigh all the information before posting, it would behoove you to give us all the information. The way it was presented, I don't know how you could've expected someone NOT to have strong feelings about it.

And for the record, you don't know a damned thing about me, either, so don't throw that tired old line up in my face as some kind of defense for the ill-thought-out post you made. Perhaps if you had walked a mile in someone else's shoes you might understand where my posts were coming from.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I'll take my "assuming" ass out of this thread and let you get back to the lovefest you so obviously desired when you started it.

Well, you know what happens when you assume...KIDDING! I'll respond to both of you, below.

Good riddance.

(blocked)






Oh i totally agree that it was very thoughtful of others to be concerned. I appreciate good intentions. It's the assumptions that I don't, nor anyone else, appreciate.



No matter how little or how much information is provided, it gives no one the right to assume anything. Like I said, next time just ask.

I like the both of you, first of all. And I think it was a good issue for someone to raise, and that helps the discussion. Because it's never just about the OP.

 

[SweetGigi]

I was concerned for you. I felt a need to say so. I actually felt it would be cowardly not to say something. This is what I do with all my friends. I speak my piece first. Then I support them doing whatever they do, even if I an still worried for them.

*hugs*


We good girl. We. good. I know your intentions were pure. Like I said, I have no problem with pure intentions.

 

[Netzach]

Oh, there was no need to bump, sweetness. I've been ghosting this witch hunt since we got back last night. I have to say I'm in no way surprised at the turn of events here.

So to start here, lets set a few things straight shall we? 1. Carlos and I have been friends for over 4 years. I know everything there is to know about his life as he does about mine. While it is true we've just started dating, it isn't like we are blind in any way to the other's needs, wants, desires and experience or expectations. He knows what I am capable of, what I've experienced in the past and my PERSONAL DESIRES. I WANTED TO DO THIS WITH HIM, period. So the assumption that I am being pushed too far too fast is not really a valid concern, thank you though.

2. I want to personally thank Bunny for starting this witch hunt and showing out the way she has here. Let me provide an example of how this whole things should have gone had there not already been a predisposed hatred and viciousness brewing.

"Ok, 'Cole I have a question: How exactly are you planning on approaching said bi/sub girl in this situation? Will it be on the up and up or will there be a hidden agenda? I personally would suggest not trying to hide things from the girl you approach because she might personally find it demeaning."

See, the fact of the matter is, Bunny, you don't know me from dick's hat band. You know nothing about me other than what you have arbitrarily assumed about me on these boards and the third person information you have 'gathered'. You took it upon yourself to assume, for reasons we both know, that I would be such a soul who would take it upon myself to willingly deceive a woman into a situation she might otherwise not engage in if she were to know the whole story. You took it upon yourself to fill in the blanks of the whole evening, not knowing anything other than the little information provided here. But then again, this does not surprise me in the least given your past actions. Transference is such an ugly thing really.

Truth: This was an opportunity for Carlos to see my interaction within this sort of environment and to see how much I could take, do, and feel comfortable with. He in no way expected more than could give; that is just asinine to assume. There was no punishment to be dealt if I didn't succeed in finding a girl- it was just an opportunity to see what would happen. I am sorry if I made it sound as such.

Truth: I NEVER would have, nor did I, approach a woman to bring into play with us, without telling her the whole story. Thank you, Netzach, for point out the fact that I 'just might' have the common decency to be this forthright. How dare anyone assume that I would be so cruel as to not be on the up and up.

Truth: Carlos knows what he is doing with me. Again with the assumptions. *shakes head*

For those of you who care to know, we had a blast last night. This particular club is set up in a intimate setting. They do not allow any singles in- you must be a part of a couple to attend. $250 per couple gets you in the door, a 5 course dinner, all the drinks you can stomach (which I personally disagree with but oh well), a private room with lockers and bath facilities, access to the public rooms, the roman baths, and breakfast bar after all the events conclude.
We arrived at 8 pm for dinner and sat down to eat with 6 other couples, some of which Carlos knows and others he does not. During dinner everyone asked me questions and I naturally answered them. Everyone came to the knowledge that this was my first time, that I am completely straight, and I am in training with Carlos as my assumed Dominant.
After dinner, we interacted with and mingled with other couples, (there were about 100 different couples there all together) in a casual friendly and environment over drinks with no expectations and NO TOUCHING. In the front room, it looks and acts just like an average dinner club. In the back is where the action is had... if you choose to take part. Once in the back you receive the key to your room where you can disrobe and again mingle with the other couples and interact however you choose.
We met up with our friends from dinner again after we went to the back, however I really didn't feel connection with any of them on the level I require to be sexually involved. Without disappointment, Carlos and I eventually enjoyed each other in our private room and played until about 2:30. Once sated, we went back up front and had a wonderful breakfast with our new friends were I was mercilessly teased about my new experience. We both left completely satisfied and happy with the situation even though the hopes for involving a third did not come to fruition.

In the future I would suggest questions being posed rather than assumptions being made. No one wants others to assume things about them, so why would I be any different?

To be fair, any and all assumptions like that are rooted in averages, in one's personal experience.

YOU do not know what it's like to be a bisexual woman, and I will definitely tell you that the times couples do not treat you like a walking fetish cofee and donut cart are few and far between. Double the averages if the woman is straight and doing this out of some kind of curiosity trip. How would you feel if your entire sexuality, your relationships, your whole LIFE is reduced to some Sharon Stone porn BS for straight men to enjoy? Good?

Whatever your motives and whatever your style may be, it's VERY important for you to understand that anyone doing anything like this without being a serious asshole is the exception to a 90th percentile kind of rule.

So put the shoe on that foot before you say Bunny's doing any kind of wild transference. People like me are kind of skittish and kind of grossed out because of BTDT.

And no matter how much I like you as a person, if someone approached me under these kinds of circumstances I would absolutely laugh in their face. The fact that I didn't in the outset of this thread was purely out of knowing you and benefit of the doubt stuff.

 

[BiBunny]

To be fair, any and all assumptions like that are rooted in averages, in one's personal experience.

YOU do not know what it's like to be a bisexual woman, and I will definitely tell you that the times couples do not treat you like a walking fetish cofee and donut cart are few and far between. Double the averages if the woman is straight and doing this out of some kind of curiosity trip. How would you feel if your entire sexuality, your relationships, your whole LIFE is reduced to some Sharon Stone porn BS for straight men to enjoy? Good?

Whatever your motives and whatever your style may be, it's VERY important for you to understand that anyone doing anything like this without being a serious asshole is the exception to a 90th percentile kind of rule.

So put the shoe on that foot before you say Bunny's doing any kind of wild transference. People like me are kind of skittish and kind of grossed out because of BTDT.

And no matter how much I like you as a person, if someone approached me under these kinds of circumstances I would absolutely laugh in their face. The fact that I didn't in the outset of this thread was purely out of knowing you and benefit of the doubt stuff.

Thank you. This is exactly what I meant by "take a walk in my shoes."

 

[rida]

Sounds like it was a very good experience!
And I like the setting of the club, starting with dinner.



As an aside, I didn't see any disrespectful post. Maybe some concerns might have sounded harsh or assuming, but everybody's opinion is colored by their personal experience, and the limited knowledge of the person making the post or involved in the situation presented in the OP.
You know what you are doing, Carlos knows what he is doing. We cannot be sure and since we worry, we voice the worry. Communication styles are different, some nuances get lost in the written form. And sometimes, since everything else has already been covered, to further the discussion and to cover all aspects, somebody will point out the skeleton in the closet, the issue that is not spoken of. Without having any specifically personal implication about the person making the OP. Just relevant to the subject at hands.

 

[HottieMama]

Wow....after reading the thread, i don't see anyone being particularily harsh or assuming much of anything, given the opening post. You explained yourself in your follow-up but not in your original post, and based just on that i completely agree with Bunny.

 

[HottieMama]

YOU do not know what it's like to be a bisexual woman, and I will definitely tell you that the times couples do not treat you like a walking fetish cofee and donut cart are few and far between. Double the averages if the woman is straight and doing this out of some kind of curiosity trip. How would you feel if your entire sexuality, your relationships, your whole LIFE is reduced to some Sharon Stone porn BS for straight men to enjoy? Good?

As one of the other bi girls on this board, i just have to say how much i completely agree with this. It DOESN'T feel good. i'm not a circus act to "get you off" while your hubby, boyfriend, Grand Poobah watches. Dear lord...bisexuality doesn't erase feelings or the desire/capacity for intimacy. Gigi, i think what you failed to realize in your opening post that you are talking to bi women that have or had long-term committed relationships with other women. We're not just "bi for guys," and many of us resent that implication.

 

[elizabeth22673]

Hey, I'm glad you had a good time. I certainly hope my post wasn't offensive. If it was I'm very sorry. I just wanted to give some advice that was passed onto me when I first was swinging and for me it was the best advice.

I am bi and I have never felt funny when a couple asked me to be a third at the swing club. It's quite a compliment and haven't been treated as a toy or whatnot. I simply agree (and have a wonderful time) or say thanks but no thanks and go on with my evening. It's all about tact and respect and if that is given then there should be no hard feelings. Again...just my own experience.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your evening and I wish you and Carlos the best

 

[EmpressFi]

Nothing in Bunny's post was offensive or accusatory but staying a side of the story that you/we might not have thought of. Your original post didnt go into much detail except that Carlos expected you to pick out a bisexual sub and seduce her and that you werent really into girls but were willing to do this for HIM.

I think Bunny's posts and HM's and Netz, and others have said is actually a valid response. As I said, she/they brought up a point I'd never thought of. I was so wrapped in the, "there's no way I'd feel comfortable doing that" that I didnt even think of the other woman involved here. And their feelings are just as valid. They provide a balance to the thread as other people read it besides you and maybe someone's thinking of doing the same and like myself, hadnt thought of the the other persons involved and werent going to be as respectful to the other party as to offer them the choice or let them know they were just part of an experiment.

 

[SweetGigi]

Nothing in Bunny's post was offensive or accusatory but staying a side of the story that you/we might not have thought of. Your original post didnt go into much detail except that Carlos expected you to pick out a bisexual sub and seduce her and that you werent really into girls but were willing to do this for HIM.

I think Bunny's posts and HM's and Netz, and others have said is actually a valid response. As I said, she/they brought up a point I'd never thought of. I was so wrapped in the, "there's no way I'd feel comfortable doing that" that I didnt even think of the other woman involved here. And their feelings are just as valid. They provide a balance to the thread as other people read it besides you and maybe someone's thinking of doing the same and like myself, hadnt thought of the the other persons involved and werent going to be as respectful to the other party as to offer them the choice or let them know they were just part of an experiment.

I can fully and completely respect perspective. I welcome it and I think, like you, it offers a balance to the thread it otherwise would not have. However, assuming that just because they have had such experiences in the past that I, specifically, will do the same is accusatory and hostile. I understand it is an average of numbers, but just as Netzach pointed out how she COULD have reacted and didn't, bunny could have done the same and chose not to. She chose to make it and take it personally instead of offering her perspective in an enlightening and non-threatening way. There were plenty of ways to go about giving/collecting the same information without assuming I am a total user and that Carlos is a total wanker.

 

[HottieMama]

]My task for the evening will be to find a suitable female sub and seduce her. After seducing her, we will bring her back with us to 'have our way with her'.

This isn't just me 'finding someone for him to shag. It is me finding someone for 'us' to shag. My first time with all this, so I hope he is gentle

Yeah I think it will be easier to find a cuite bi girl rather than tyring to convert another straight-y like me.

These three quotes are taken from the first page of posts...BEFORE Bunny, or Netz, or anyone else got involved...AND before you explained (back-peddled) yourself in any sort of detail.

i'm sorry but you do indeed sound like a user and a wanker...trolling a swing club for your "man."

 

[SweetGigi]

These three quotes are taken from the first page of posts...BEFORE Bunny, or Netz, or anyone else got involved...AND before you explained (back-peddled) yourself in any sort of detail.

i'm sorry but you do indeed sound like a user and a wanker...trolling a swing club for your "man."

What-ev, judge me all you want. You have no idea. You know where the door is as well, Nikki.



Good. Bye.

 

[FuckMeEyes]

We all judge... The moment you look at a man, you've judged him on his appearance. That is not an assumption, nor do I condemn you for it. It is a recanting from a prior conversation.

I'm not posting here to stir things up and perpetuate a debate. Rather I am going to say that it is much more realistic for one to stop denying and accept the faults of humanity than to expect humanity to change its nature at every occurrence of individual thought.

I believe it is unfair of anyone to demand others to refrain from having an opinion. I like having that freedom, so much so that I will always encourage others to share in that freedom through asking questions to gain an understanding of their perspective and to potentially expand their concepts.

There are also feelings involved in people's opinions that have been posted to this thread. Who are any of us to deny someone else's emotions? How is that fair?

 

[faeriefire]

Well I resisted posting thus far as I didn't have too much to say on the topic of swinging but I have something to add now. I care about you Gigi as far as being safe and I trust you, knowing you're aware of others feelings to a larger degree than many folks. A few people have mentioned it not coming across in the first post, and for someone who hadn't talked much with you beforehand I can see how it might be perceived. So chinup, kay...your post started some good discussion that could actually go someplace cool if it doesn't degrade totally into flamewarz...

I will say too that the subsequent discussion was really helpful. It was good hear the perspective of others and have a frame of reference for scenarios that do happen. I don't know if I'll ever be in a similar position, but if so I will definately think first through the lens of Bunny, HottieMama, and Netz. I'm ambivalent really to women as far as sexual attraction goes. They are asthetically beautiful to me but I'm really only turned on by guys. What is arousing is the thought of control, whether it be of a man or woman. Guess that's the little bit of switch in me I have kissed and played some with a like-minded friend but I would not feel comfortable approaching someone I didn't know be it man or woman. I think to play with anyone there must be friendship, respect, a connection. If sexual attraction does not go both ways it seems there is potential for exploitation. If both members are on the same page and cool with whatever the situation may be that is something else entirely as respect, honestly and consensual choice are present.

I think a lot of the points made in this thread really connect back to respecting people as themselves and not objectifying. BiBunny, I definately appreciated the insights you gave in the sense of being upfront and direct about intentions and what you want from another. There are people who want more and those who want less. I'll remember that. Netz also made a good point about each person being responsible for their own choices. That said sometimes I think (in bdsm and elsewhere too) people will exploit others. I can't tell you how many people have cautioned me not to trust anyone, anyone as I start exploring irl. They've told me I'm bait, easily exploitable, too trusting, and that people will try to use me. My knee-jerk reaction is: I know myself, I have good instincts, give me some credit. But their words will also stay with me and lend an air of caution which is probably a good thing to keep handy as many predators are out there who will take advantage given an opening.

Learning a bit about the scene through the words and the insight here was helpful and I think provided some good thoughts for anyone considering a more active role in bdsm or a swinging scene. Anyhoo, the discussion ended up going in the direction of a catfight lol which is not conducive to actually learning, yet there are gems hidden in there nonetheless. All in all I'm glad to hear the evening was enjoyable, safe, and a positive experience. And I'm happy I learned some things to keep in mind if in the future I find myself in a position with similar elements.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am bi and I have never felt funny when a couple asked me to be a third at the swing club. It's quite a compliment and haven't been treated as a toy or whatnot. I simply agree (and have a wonderful time) or say thanks but no thanks and go on with my evening. It's all about tact and respect and if that is given then there should be no hard feelings. Again...just my own experience.

I was thinking the same last night after I logged off. I have never felt offended by anyone propositioning me, male or female, anywhere. Perhaps if they groped and assumed the answer was yes before the question was asked it would be different, but knowing someone is attracted to you on any level is flattering at least, what you choose to answer and/or do with it is then a personal choice...people are not mind readers, and I think a lot of people do hold back these days simply because of the overload of PC that makes some feel to be even told someone finds them attractive means sexual harassment. LOL, reminds me of straight women who make it clear they are very straight and find no sexual attraction in other women, then scream if a gay woman shows interest, scream tantrum like even louder when they don't...and I have met and worked with more than a few of those unfortunately.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I was thinking the same last night after I logged off. I have never felt offended by anyone propositioning me, male or female, anywhere. Perhaps if they groped and assumed the answer was yes before the question was asked it would be different, but knowing someone is attracted to you on any level is flattering at least, what you choose to answer and/or do with it is then a personal choice...people are not mind readers, and I think a lot of people do hold back these days simply because of the overload of PC that makes some feel to be even told someone finds them attractive means sexual harassment. LOL, reminds me of straight women who make it clear they are very straight and find no sexual attraction in other women, then scream if a gay woman shows interest, scream tantrum like even louder when they don't...and I have met and worked with more than a few of those unfortunately.

Catalina

"I'm uninterested in you on your own merits, in fact that thought of touching your genitals makes me worried, but this guy I like wants me to do it" is a FAR cry from "hi there, can I get you a drink?" Are you seriously going to argue otherwise? How would you feel if a few days into this really nice prospective conversation with F, you found out that in fact he's repulsed by pussy and his Master made him contact you?

But for the nth time, this is why sport fucking is so damn tiresome to me, other people love it. I'm going to bow out before I get shoved out. People use the things you say as a basis for opinion, Gigi, what the hell else are they supposed to use? And what other interpretation SHOULD HM come up with, looking at what you said? The thing you want to do is kind of meh, to me personally, but I've done plenty of meh of my own and I had a suggestion or two as to how to make it work based on what I've observed and done.

I simply don't find it that morally objectionable to pick someone up as a curiosity if that's their thing too. And I don't think that if you fuck someone and don't call don't write we need to string you up. I don't even care what married people do. I'm just saying that you can't possibly expect people with a personal dog in the hunt to just STFU about how that situation makes them feel.

Whatever, I'm not judging you, I hope you get what you want, whatever that is.

Just be aware that not everyone wants to play your game because you want to play it. That's the crux of it. Also if you're looking for a female third for fun only, good luck, so's the rest of the universe. You'll probably find, as I have, that's it's pretty damn hard.

 

[SweetGigi]

I am really glad this thread has brought forward thoughts, ideas, concerns, and viewpoints- truly I am. I know my knee-jerk reaction doesn't show it, but I am always for communication and open discourse and dialog.

I have no problem with emotions or opposing opinions. But, as I have expressed before, what I can't appreciate is when someone who has never taken any time to get to know me, doesn't speak to me in any way, doesn't participate with me personally on any level or have any personal knowledge of me what so ever accuses me of being a vile person who could or would ask this of an unsuspecting soul (without telling them everything up front) without first asking clarifying questions. If things seemed, appeared or even came across as unclear or in a bad light, questions could have been asked with out jumping to conclusions.

I don't think asking for someone to extend a modicum of basic respect is "expecting humanity to change". I think it is asking for common decency. Assuming something from what you read and asking for clarification is one thing, but assuming something and then accusing someone of something as foul as this is just wrong. THAT is what I was offended by and nothing more.

Thank you to all who have participated in this thread and who have added their experience and perspective. All these things have come together to enlighten many and offer education to those who may have needed it. That is what this board is for anyway, right?

 

[Homburg]

This thread wandered outside the stock BDSM umbrella. Swinging, like poly, ain't the local brand of kink. As a result, you're going to face both the folks that are experienced in it and have opinions, as well as those that disagree with the activity as a concept.

I haven't joined in previously as I've nothing germane to say vis a vis the topic, but I figured I'd comment on some of the meta-topic posts.

 

[FurryFury]

Well I resisted posting thus far as I didn't have too much to say on the topic of swinging but I have something to add now. I care about you Gigi as far as being safe and I trust you, knowing you're aware of others feelings to a larger degree than many folks. A few people have mentioned it not coming across in the first post, and for someone who hadn't talked much with you beforehand I can see how it might be perceived. So chinup, kay...your post started some good discussion that could actually go someplace cool if it doesn't degrade totally into flamewarz...

I will say too that the subsequent discussion was really helpful. It was good hear the perspective of others and have a frame of reference for scenarios that do happen. I don't know if I'll ever be in a similar position, but if so I will definately think first through the lens of Bunny, HottieMama, and Netz. I'm ambivalent really to women as far as sexual attraction goes. They are asthetically beautiful to me but I'm really only turned on by guys. What is arousing is the thought of control, whether it be of a man or woman. Guess that's the little bit of switch in me I have kissed and played some with a like-minded friend but I would not feel comfortable approaching someone I didn't know be it man or woman. I think to play with anyone there must be friendship, respect, a connection. If sexual attraction does not go both ways it seems there is potential for exploitation. If both members are on the same page and cool with whatever the situation may be that is something else entirely as respect, honestly and consensual choice are present.

I think a lot of the points made in this thread really connect back to respecting people as themselves and not objectifying. BiBunny, I definately appreciated the insights you gave in the sense of being upfront and direct about intentions and what you want from another. There are people who want more and those who want less. I'll remember that. Netz also made a good point about each person being responsible for their own choices. That said sometimes I think (in bdsm and elsewhere too) people will exploit others. I can't tell you how many people have cautioned me not to trust anyone, anyone as I start exploring irl. They've told me I'm bait, easily exploitable, too trusting, and that people will try to use me. My knee-jerk reaction is: I know myself, I have good instincts, give me some credit. But their words will also stay with me and lend an air of caution which is probably a good thing to keep handy as many predators are out there who will take advantage given an opening.

Learning a bit about the scene through the words and the insight here was helpful and I think provided some good thoughts for anyone considering a more active role in bdsm or a swinging scene. Anyhoo, the discussion ended up going in the direction of a catfight lol which is not conducive to actually learning, yet there are gems hidden in there nonetheless. All in all I'm glad to hear the evening was enjoyable, safe, and a positive experience. And I'm happy I learned some things to keep in mind if in the future I find myself in a position with similar elements.

This great posts and a few others you have made shows what an amazing person you are.

*hug*

 

[Breaker_Morant]

I call "Bullshit"

Gigi,

You told me that you were you were spending Mother's Day with Carlos because the week after he was leaving for San Francisco to conduct his research on Alzehiemers and then you were going home to be with your mother and the rest of your family.

So which is it? Is he in San Fransisco? Atlanta, Mexico City or your imagination?

All the world wonders "Where is Carlos Sandiago?"

Without going into the details but from what I've been told justice has been served in light of recent events.

Btw, I think it rather inmature of you to block Bunny. I've had my share of Lit Drama and have yet to block someone just because they have a differing opinion or tell me what I was thoughtless and stupid or something else.

Guess I'll get put on ignore as well..