subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

[redelicious]

A Dom friend and I were discussing a theory of his. He believes that at some point all subs have a need to test their Dom/me's limits. As a teacher I could relate - it reminded me how a class of students will, at the beginning of the school year, test their teacher's limits to see how far they can push him/her.

This scares me, and not just for the punishment it would surely bring. The last thing I would want to do is displease my Dom/me and it bothers me that somehow it is inevitable due to human nature. I have a budding o/l friendship with another Dom and we have discussed this. He has warned me that this error in judgement would only happen once.

Any thoughts on this? Is there a sub out there involved in a r/l relationship that has not needed to be punished?

 

[Ebonyfire]

A Dom friend and I were discussing a theory of his. He believes that at some point all subs have a need to test their Dom/me's limits. As a teacher I could relate - it reminded me how a class of students will, at the beginning of the school, year test their teacher's limits to see how far they can push him/her.

This scares me, and not just for the punishment it would surely bring. The last thing I would want to do is displease my Dom/me and it bothers me that somehow it is inevitable due to human nature. I have a budding o/l friendship with another Dom and we have discussed this. He has warned me that this error in judgement would only happen once.

Any thoughts on this? Is there a sub out there involved in a r/l relationship that has not needed to be punished?

I think that it depends on the sub, and it depends of the depth of submission.

Let me explain.

I do not have that trouble with my boys cause they are not collared and they are part-time. We both can walk away. They know my feelings on testing Me and they also know the consequences. Dismissal.

Now if I had a 24/7 slave, there might be more opportunity for this testing to occur because of close proximity and/or the stage of te relationship.

Eb

 

[redelicious]

Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

I think that it depends on the sub, and it depends of the depth of submission.

Let me explain.

I do not have that trouble with my boys cause they are not collared and they are part-time. We both can walk away. They know my feelings on testing Me and they also know the consequences. Dismissal.

Now if I had a 24/7 slave, there might be more opportunity for this testing to occur because of close proximity and/or the stage of te relationship.

Eb

Ahh, but then their dismissal becomes the ultimate form of punishment, no?
I have read your posts and I think whatever you and your subs are doing, it must be working.
Thanks for the input.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

Ahh, but then their dismissal becomes the ultimate form of punishment, no?
I have read your posts and I think whatever you and your subs are doing, it must be working.
Thanks for the input.

Nope. Not punishment, but a matter of choice. it is a waste of my time to play games with a sub who has contracted to interact with me under a certain set of circumstances, and they decide to deviate from it, to "test" me.

Sorry, the only game I play is my game.

Eb

 

[redelicious]

Re: Re: Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

Nope. Not punishment, but a matter of choice. it is a waste of my time to play games with a sub who has contracted to interact with me under a certain set of circumstances, and they decide to deviate from it, to "test" me.

Sorry, the only game I play is my game.

Eb

And that is as it should be.

Thank you again.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

And that is as it should be.

Thank you again.

This is a pithy (don't ya love that word?) thread. I hope many others will jump in and post their thoughts.

Eb

 

[Red Menace]

I think I would test a Dom in a new relationship. Not to see what I could get away with, but rather to reassure myself that he has control and there are definite limits and boundaries. Once assured of that, I can settle down and submit.

 

[iam4Her]

testing

i believe that all people will test all relationships,wether it is a work relation, friend relation or a love relation
Well most people will test their partners unconciously in their small way, you know those small thing we seldom think of.

In the beginning of o/our relationship , Mistress saw and interpreted lots of small things in my behviour with the question "was that a testing of Me ?"
I was facing many small things in my personality that could be interpreted as a "testing" but really, i had no clue, it is just the way i was, several of these small things were really small issues, some to correct, some just to have a talk about.

Then of course there is also those persons that has a real "testing" persona, that will constantly test people deliberatly, like constant hiding the truth, no telling about stuff that has been done.
Dishonesty and low selfesteem.

iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: testing

Then of course there is also those persons that has a real "testing" persona, that will constantly test people deliberatly, like constant hiding the truth, no telling about stuff that has been done.
Dishonesty and low selfesteem.

I think that is what I object to.

Because I have part-time subs, I have a low tolerance for deliberate "testing" behaviour.

Eb

 

[redelicious]

Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

I think I would test a Dom in a new relationship. Not to see what I could get away with, but rather to reassure myself that he has control and there are definite limits and boundaries. Once assured of that, I can settle down and submit.

Hmmm, that is an interesting perspective. Would you not be concerned that testing would deliver a harsh punishment, or in Eb's case, dismissal?

Just thinking through this. Thank you for your answer.

 

[redelicious]

Re: testing

i believe that all people will test all relationships,wether it is a work relation, friend relation or a love relation
Well most people will test their partners unconciously in their small way, you know those small thing we seldom think of.

In the beginning of o/our relationship , Mistress saw and interpreted lots of small things in my behviour with the question "was that a testing of Me ?"
I was facing many small things in my personality that could be interpreted as a "testing" but really, i had no clue, it is just the way i was, several of these small things were really small issues, some to correct, some just to have a talk about.

Then of course there is also those persons that has a real "testing" persona, that will constantly test people deliberatly, like constant hiding the truth, no telling about stuff that has been done.
Dishonesty and low selfesteem.

iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene

Ah, so there are degrees of "testing" as there are degrees of punishment. I wonder then if some of this testing is excusable as it is part of a learning process?

I understand the unconscious stuff and I guess that is what I am worried most about - because it seems that I would be unable to stop it from happening.

But the deliberate stuff is under my control and I agree, there is no room for it.

 

[iam4Her]

Of course there are degrees of testing. but even the small unconcious testings are still valid to have a discussion about from the Dominants perspetive.

It is the Dominant that will decide what is acceptable or not...kinda easy rule actually..

iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: testing

I understand the unconscious stuff and I guess that is what I am worried most about - because it seems that I would be unable to stop it from happening.

I think that a Dom/me would be able to tell the difference. Especially if they have taken the time to find out what makes their submissive tick. I believe I would be able to tel lthe difference.

What do others think?

Eb

 

[redelicious]

Of course there are degrees of testing. but even the small unconcious testings are still valid to have a discussion about from the Dominants perspetive.

It is the Dominant that will decide what is acceptable or not...kinda easy rule actually..

iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene

Makes sence to me.

 

[Red Menace]

Re: Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

Hmmm, that is an interesting perspective. Would you not be concerned that testing would deliver a harsh punishment, or in Eb's case, dismissal?

Just thinking through this. Thank you for your answer.

I think it's important to discuss testing and direct disobedience and the consequences during negotiations. I've been talking to a Dom who I'm trying to get together with and he's reassured me that with him, (and I realize this will vary from Dom to Dom), that he would only dismiss a sub if direct disobedience were a continual thing and had begun to wear him out. We've discussed testing and limits to punishing and agree that, for me, the most effective punishment for a severe infraction would be for the scene to stop. Minor punishments would be limited to something I found extremely uncomfortable but could tolerate.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

I think it's important to discuss testing and direct disobedience and the consequences during negotiations. I've been talking to a Dom who I'm trying to get together with and he's reassured me that with him, (and I realize this will vary from Dom to Dom), that he would only dismiss a sub if direct disobedience were a continual thing and had begun to wear him out. We've discussed testing and limits to punishing and agree that, for me, the most effective punishment for a severe infraction would be for the scene to stop. Minor punishments would be limited to something I found extremely uncomfortable but could tolerate.

Just throwing this out for discussion...

Do you think that because Doms have a harder time finding compatible subs, they are more apt to allow testing of their dominance than a Domme would?

The malesub pool is huge in relation to the number of Dommes capable and/or available.

In know in my case, I am unwillnig to waste my time on a "player" when there are more suitalbe malesubs who will not waste my time.

Now I am not talking about a 24/7. It well may be I am more tolerant with my livein slave who may not be belligerent, but just misguided. We shall see whne that happens.

Eb

Any comments?

 

[CatEyes]

Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

I think I would test a Dom in a new relationship. Not to see what I could get away with, but rather to reassure myself that he has control and there are definite limits and boundaries. Once assured of that, I can settle down and submit.

I think someone mentioned testing a Dom to see if they could trust them, which makes sense but what immediately popped into my head was what Red Menace said. I could see myself doing that. I think because I would need to know that he defenitely had control.

CatEyes

 

[lovetoread]

.

 

[artful]

iam4Her

Of course there are degrees of testing. but even the small unconcious testings are still valid to have a discussion about from the Dominants perspetive.

It is the Dominant that will decide what is acceptable or not...kinda easy rule actually..

iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene

Not only do I perceive Shadows training with your posts, but I see the intelligence she has available in you. Your posts show me that quite clearly,...Thank you.

(OF course I agree)-LOL

 

[~Dream~]

I agree with RED..

i think and believe the reason I test Master especially in our reaally new relationship is cause i need to see the control is REALLY there and that it's REAL not just a word.. it mkes me feel SAFE tthat HE has it cause God knows it gets me in big trouble !! JMHO..

 

[artful]

I have a budding o/l friendship with another Dom and we have discussed this. He has warned me that this error in judgement would only happen once.

Any thoughts on this? Is there a sub out there involved in a r/l relationship that has not needed to be punished?

Red,...I am not a sub, but there is a VAST difference in training someone who is EXPERIENCED in submissiveness, and one who has little to NO experience.

From what I have read in your prior posts, I feel you are the latter. I would CAUTION you on developing a relationship with a Dom who will only give you ONE chance. May I also point out, there is a difference in DISCIPLINE and PUNISHMENT.

(JMHO),...but it's mine,...and I own it.

 

[Red Menace]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

Just throwing this out for discussion...

Do you think that because Doms have a harder time finding compatible subs, they are more apt to allow testing of their dominance than a Domme would?

The malesub pool is huge in relation to the number of Dommes capable and/or available.

In know in my case, I am unwillnig to waste my time on a "player" when there are more suitalbe malesubs who will not waste my time.

Now I am not talking about a 24/7. It well may be I am more tolerant with my livein slave who may not be belligerent, but just misguided. We shall see whne that happens.

Eb

Any comments?

I never even considered that. Ideally, I'd like to think people would wait for something they really want rather than settle for what's available, but that probably isn't very often the case. That could be the case... or it could be, as red's friend said, it's expected to some extent.

Let me ask you this then, I'm not talking about direct dispbedience or petulance or a rude demeanor, but if a sub is testing you, as a reassurance to them of your control, why does that lead to your dismissal of them? Or would that be a grey area up for discussion? Does it make you feel challenged or threatened or simply bored with the situation? Does a new sub with much potential get more slack than an experienced sub who ought to know better?

Would love to hear your comments on this.

 

[WillowPuss]

Any thoughts on this? Is there a sub out there involved in a r/l relationship that has not needed to be punished?

For such a simple question, it is causing me a lot of trouble in answering it.

First, we have to diferentiate between being punnished and being disciplined.

I have certainly been disciplined
Have I been punished though?

Yes and no.

Let me explain - I have certain rules laid down for me. An infraction of these rules will cause me to lose a point. Once I reach a certain number of points, I am punished.

However, by pleasing my Master by doing something well, or something extra ... that will earn me points.

The negative points and deducted from the positive points.


I think most people will see this as discipline rather than punishment ... but I could be wrong.

 

[redelicious]

Re: Re: subs: Is testing boundaries inevitable?

Red,...I am not a sub, but there is a VAST difference in training someone who is EXPERIENCED in submissiveness, and one who has little to NO experience.

From what I have read in your prior posts, I feel you are the latter. I would CAUTION you on developing a relationship with a Dom who will only give you ONE chance. May I also point out, there is a difference in DISCIPLINE and PUNISHMENT.

(JMHO),...but it's mine,...and I own it.

Thank you Artful for your comment. You are right about my level of experience. I think I will have to clarify this with him, but I think he was speaking hypothetically as if we were in a more serious relationship. As it stands now it is just o/l play. I think his point was also that once I was punished the first time, there would be no need for a second punishment. As he put it, it would alter my thinking.

I agree that there is a difference between discipline and punishment. Discipline seems to be the process of shaping behavior, as Willowpus's Dom is doing with the point system. Punishment, I have always thought, is a negative response to an undesired behavior.

 

[redelicious]

I just want to take some time out to thank everyone who responded to me. I am new to all of this and I am trying to learn as much as I can. Every post pushes me to explore in a new direction and to expand my thinking. I am enjoying the challenge.

Red