Submissive Males And Crossdressing

[BiBunny]

What's the connection here? Probably 95% of sub males I've talked to are into dressing in women's clothing. I can sort of understand that it might be humiliating to wear women's clothes against your will because your Dom/me told you to. I'm just not sure how it appeals to the submissive side when it's something YOU want to do. Is there something I'm missing, or is it just one of those very common fetish things that just so happen to occur mostly in the submissive male contingent?

For the record, I don't have anything against crossdressers, but I'm just not interested in "forcing" some guy to do it. If he wants to do it on his own, fine. *Shrug*

 

[neonflux]

What's the connection here? Probably 95% of sub males I've talked to are into dressing in women's clothing. I can sort of understand that it might be humiliating to wear women's clothes against your will because your Dom/me told you to. I'm just not sure how it appeals to the submissive side when it's something YOU want to do. Is there something I'm missing, or is it just one of those very common fetish things that just so happen to occur mostly in the submissive male contingent?

For the record, I don't have anything against crossdressers, but I'm just not interested in "forcing" some guy to do it. If he wants to do it on his own, fine. *Shrug*

I do know plenty of gay male bottoms and switches who are very, very masculine and several who top in a female persona. That said, I think this is an amazing question.

I am certain that some of the submissive Lit men who cross dress can probably address this far better than I, but from my work as a sexuality educator, I am convinced that part of the enjoyment is connected to the shaming that all men experience about their "feminine" characteristics as they are growing up. I also sometimes wonder if it's easier for men to submit as "women" if only because we associate so often associate submission and softness and "victimhood" with being female instead of male.

I imagine it must be deeply cathartic - this understanding is one of the reasons that, even though I'm not really an emotional sadist, I can do humiliation play with men. ~A (former play partner, bi "bear" who doesn't cross dress), really gets off on being called a sissy, etc. when he bottoms - in addition to finding it hot, he also talks about it in terms of release. Great source: Real Boys: Rescuing Our Sons from the Myths of Boyhood by William Pollack. It completely changed the way I dealt with gender when I was still in the classroom and I think it should be "must" reading for anyone with a son.

BTW, I have been talking to someone for a while (the only person I ever made a real connection with on Alt - we bonded over the composer, Messiaen) who is 100% sub+ and generally only plays as his Female persona (he is a gay-leaning bi man, btw). We have our first play date on Thursday evening.

Neon

 

[Netzach]

I'm not into the force thing either.
The guys I'm with who dress dress. That they happen to groove on submission is kind of parallel, kind of an interesting sidenote, but there's no smokescreen BS that they're dressing for my benefit. They like it, I like that they like it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not sure what the answer to your question is. Both male subs we played with who were into crossdressing had an extensive wardrobe of their own doing which they were both still adding to....one was into the whole outfit, the other mainly lingerie items with the occasional maid's outfit. The one mainly into lingerie was both turned on and embarrassed by his clothes choice, but it was an undeniable part of who he is as a person and he enjoyed the opportunity to share it with someone and also play up the humiliation factor he got off on. The other was overjoyed to be able to model for someone who appreciated it and not the least bit embarrassed. Both boys were masochists and were so much fun I am more than willing to explore further.

Catalina

 

[Shankara20]

I'm not sure why you are encountering such a high percentage of cross-interested subs, but I do have a few thoughts on the matter.

Traditional male rolls in a culture and how individual men deal with them are an area of interest to many, me included. Starting in the late 1960's the prominent male model was challenged on a huge scale in the US of A, and other cultures. Now the models are confused to some, wanting to be a traditional "man" and also being a "soft and sensitive" male can, for some of us, be a challenge. A few of us balanced that by being a "in charge" man most of the time while finding a few rather hidden places in our lives to be a "sub" - and few even found an attracted to fem clothing. I embraced my desire for fem clothing but this sort of gender-bending was difficult for some - being forced to crossdress resolves that - she made me so therefore I do not need to address my own sexual identity. Today it is becoming a little more acceptable to be a crossdresser and be a Top, to be a crossdresser and be het, to be a crossdresser and a sub and be het, or any other mix that the lack of that second cup of caffeine prevents my mind for suggesting at this time.

I'm wondering, where are you bumping into this sub's? online? munches? play parties?

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not sure why you are encountering such a high percentage of cross-interested subs, but I do have a few thoughts on the matter.

Traditional male rolls in a culture and how individual men deal with them are an area of interest to many, me included. Starting in the late 1960's the prominent male model was challenged on a huge scale in the US of A, and other cultures. Now the models are confused to some, wanting to be a traditional "man" and also being a "soft and sensitive" male can, for some of us, be a challenge. A few of us balanced that by being a "in charge" man most of the time while finding a few rather hidden places in our lives to be a "sub" - and few even found an attracted to fem clothing. I embraced my desire for fem clothing but this sort of gender-bending was difficult for some - being forced to crossdress resolves that - she made me so therefore I do not need to address my own sexual identity. Today it is becoming a little more acceptable to be a crossdresser and be a Top, to be a crossdresser and be het, to be a crossdresser and a sub and be het, or any other mix that the lack of that second cup of caffeine prevents my mind for suggesting at this time.

I'm wondering, where are you bumping into this sub's? online? munches? play parties?

It tends to be online, though I do run across some in real life, too. The online thing could explain a lot of it. They've heard that Strict, Cruel Mistress wants all her worm boys to dress in women's clothing, and then they're all stunned when Not-Strict, Not-Cruel Bunny Who Hates Being Called Mistress doesn't care one way or the other about what they wear.

 

[FurryFury]

My husband is sexually submissive. He fearfully told me of his desire to be "forced" to cross dress. I was happy to help him fulfill that because it was his desire. We both enjoyed it. He hasn't wanted to do it again though.

*shrugs*

Of course, I'm not that great a top at all.

 

[mslv4Her]

....and then they're all stunned when Not-Strict, Not-Cruel Bunny Who Hates Being Called Mistress doesn't care one way or the other about what they wear.

So what do you care about, Bunny?

 

[A_Kefka]

Not that I'm an expert, I don't' dress much, and so far haven't for anyone (although I would love to). Traditionally (although this has changed) men were supposed to be controlling and in charge while women were submissive and somewhat servile. Whether it really was like that much or not, that is ingrained in may minds. It could be that being dressed in women's clothes makes guys feel more submissive, since (A) its not what guys are supposed to wear so being "made" to dress makes him feel servile, and (B) since being feminine meant being servile dressing puts him in that frame of mind.

 

[oneguy4fun]

I'm not a cross dresser but I do find it exciting when my Goddess orders me into a pair of panties. I definitely feel much more submissive and docile when I am wearing panties.

I'm not sure exactly why this excites me. I think there are a variety of emotions that cause my arousal. Panties are very sexy and exist to cover a woman's sex. Having such an intimate piece of clothing on me is exciting. There's also the strange humiliation/arousal emotion from wearing panties. I become very submissive when my Goddess admires my 'pretty' panties and calls me a girl. I think it's such a reversal from the macho role, that it make me feel silly and submissive.

Last week my Goddess left me a note to be waiting for her wearing a butt plug and panties. The combination of the two had me feeling extremely excited and submissve by the time she arrived.

 

[precious105]

ok this may be a minor hijack but...

i get it guys like women's lingerie clothes/etc. It was designed to excite them after all, makes sense that they want to put it on.

i guess the confusing thing is that women don't really recipricate this need to dress up to look masculine or feel powerful by wearing more masculine clothing...why is that?

 

[Shankara20]

ok this may be a minor hijack but...

i get it guys like women's lingerie clothes/etc. It was designed to excite them after all, makes sense that they want to put it on.

i guess the confusing thing is that women don't really recipricate this need to dress up to look masculine or feel powerful by wearing more masculine clothing...why is that?

I think it is seen as socially acceptable for a female to go in public with clothing generally considered "masculine" then it is the other way around. Most woman could go to work in an office with a jacket, slacks, shirt and tie. Very few men could do so in a skirt, blouse and high heels.

Several underwear companies are selling female panties cut to look like boxers and now a few briefs. There is a popular style of panties called "boy shorts" and no guy could were for long without his "stuff" falling out the small crouch. So far my mall is not selling "panties for guys" out in the open.

Male to female crossdressing is still a hidden pleasure, not so the other way.

Have you seen the way drag-kings dress? They tend to go as far masculine butch as drag-queens go fem.

 

[precious105]

I think it is seen as socially acceptable for a female to go in public with clothing generally considered "masculine" then it is the other way around. Most woman could go to work in an office with a jacket, slacks, shirt and tie. Very few men could do so in a skirt, blouse and high heels.

Several underwear companies are selling female panties cut to look like boxers and now a few briefs. There is a popular style of panties called "boy shorts" and no guy could were for long without his "stuff" falling out the small crouch. So far my mall is not selling "panties for guys" out in the open.

Male to female crossdressing is still a hidden pleasure, not so the other way.

Have you seen the way drag-kings dress? They tend to go as far masculine butch as drag-queens go fem.

Drag King dress.... that is something i'm gonna have to look up and see for myself!

haha i guess i just think its a different feel when a women dresses in boy shorts or suits since most retain their feminine nature while wearing them.

 

[neonflux]

I think it is seen as socially acceptable for a female to go in public with clothing generally considered "masculine" then it is the other way around. Most woman could go to work in an office with a jacket, slacks, shirt and tie. Very few men could do so in a skirt, blouse and high heels.

Several underwear companies are selling female panties cut to look like boxers and now a few briefs. There is a popular style of panties called "boy shorts" and no guy could were for long without his "stuff" falling out the small crouch. So far my mall is not selling "panties for guys" out in the open.

Male to female crossdressing is still a hidden pleasure, not so the other way.

Have you seen the way drag-kings dress? They tend to go as far masculine butch as drag-queens go fem.

Shank, thanks for mentioning this, and for your other comments, as well. BTW, I have started thinking about wearing my "packy" (flacid penis, but very life-like) while in more "femme" attire - in fact may go to the Queer Playground this Friday that way. I do wonder if one is more likely to find cross-dressing women in queer rather than straight communities, however. On the other hand, it seems that while hidden, there are much larger numbers of straight men who cross dress. Makes me wonder why more straight and bi-straight women don't do the same. Perhaps it is "less permissable?" Or maybe it's a matter of it not appealing to straight male desires? *ponder ponder ponder* Neon

 

[dani_boi]

Submissive Cross dressers

I can't speak for anyone but myself. But I cross dress have since I have had sexual feelings. Bottom line (forgive the pun) for me is Submission is FUN! I love to get dressed up all sexy and just give myself up to be used how every my partner (man or woman) wants.

 

[intothewoods]

Good bump! I was just talking about this with a couple of my boi friends. I think some portion of the crossdressing is just explained by the fact that men's clothing options are so limited! I can wear a suit and pants, but men can't wear a skirt, except kilts and that's not accepted everywhere you go.

 

[Netzach]

Good bump! I was just talking about this with a couple of my boi friends. I think some portion of the crossdressing is just explained by the fact that men's clothing options are so limited! I can wear a suit and pants, but men can't wear a skirt, except kilts and that's not accepted everywhere you go.

That is the appeal for some people, definitely. Arguing why it's a "cross" anything, if I can wear pants why can't they do a little lip gloss?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Interesting thing in terms of men wearing make up is that it seems in some parts of Europe to be becoming quite acceptable for men to wear a little make up if they choose without any thought they are into cross dressing or gay.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Interesting thing in terms of men wearing make up is that it seems in some parts of Europe to be becoming quite acceptable for men to wear a little make up if they choose without any thought they are into cross dressing or gay.

Catalina

M is tentatively incorporating things like women's jeans or yoga pants into his tech-fabric metrosexual wardrobe - this is HUGE for someone as paranoid about public "discovery" as he is, and it's frankly pretty awesome.

I'm actually really glad he likes Eddie Izzard, it kind of gives us a baseline when talking about clothes - he has a hard time articulating exactly what he's trying to do or dress like, and it's good to have some kind of visual that can be referenced.

 

[Harlet_Minx]

That is the appeal for some people, definitely. Arguing why it's a "cross" anything, if I can wear pants why can't they do a little lip gloss?

Well I mean, think about it this way, since when did from the bolt of cloth to the rack did certain types of clothings become female or male clothing?

I have a strong feeling that if you make something socially taboo it becomes highly attractive, think of the sexualizing of breasts of even feet, something that at a certain age we begin to grind into our children as taboo.

Inherently humans are rather balanced in their personality but i think as we're encouraged to exaggerate certain aspects of our personality like aggressiveness or nurturing past where they are, we in essence are bound to those models. I mean, if you look at a average male teen, how often are they told not to act like a girl or accused of being gay if they deviate from said model like it's an insult.

I feel as they grow they are giving up bondage and submission to the male model which frees them to embrace themselves. So yes, I'm sure it's very cathartic to have a safe environment where they can express a part of themselves that atrophies in society and double that with the amount of trust and security that's present in a healthy bdsm relationship. It's not that cross dressing is connected to subs but it's one of the few places they can celebrate themselves. It's really not too different from why subs are subs or doms are doms though, it's something that's apart of us naturally that we don't necessarily have a outlet to express. It's about being mentally healthy.

Just some musings

 

[SirLeo]

My thoughts from the Dom side

I posted this on another person's thread.

I am a Dominant male. I consider myself hetero, but I must admit that the idea of having a male submit to Me is quite arousing. At times it can almost more Dom exciting to top a male than a female. I've never had a male sub. I'm happily married and don't have any interest in cheating with anyone of any sex. Still ideas fuel the imagiantion which fuels the libido. My wife will share fantasies and talk abour having another sub (soemtimes female sometimes male) but that is fantasy.

As one looks to the animal kingdom it is very common to see male to male Dom/sub behavioe expressed sexually. So perhaps its just the animal part of nature expressing itself.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth.