Submissive devotion vs. Obsessive psychopath

[Kajira Callista]

This is something i have been wondering. It will require those big bad doms to come out of hiding though.

Can a submissive's devotion be mistaken for an obsessive psychopath?

Can an obsessive psychopath be mistaken for a devoted sub?

How do you tell the difference?

Do you think the nilla world would view a subs devotion as obsessive?

How would the nilla world see the Doms ability to control?

 

[rosco rathbone]

I am of the opinion that often, we masters enjoy a level of devotion that would scare a normal man.

 

[bettiboop]

Subtle psychology

I think that this is where the differences between submission and slavery can become blurred. When does an obedient sub become a slave? It's not a label that all subs want but some I think anticipate the needs and wants of their Dom to the point of slavery.

A Dom tells a slave to wear a red thong and she obeys

A Dom tells a slave to wear lacy thongs every day and she obeys

A sub dresses for her Dom in a lacy thong without being asked because she knows it pleases him

A sub dresses for her Dom in lacy thongs every day because she knows it pleases him

The differences in psychology are subtle ones.

It's very easy to become dependent on a Dom, to need him and to crave him. A good Dom however, knows that he is fulfilling a deep-seated, burning need in the woman who submits to him. He understands that his dominance of her is therefore an act of love, of protection. These are strong emotions. To the outside world the sub is seen as inferior in her subservience. A good Dom cherishes and values her, worships her in turn by giving her what she wants most from him.

I believe that the sub/dom relationship is an exaggerated version of a successful 'normal' one. If every couple was as devoted to each other and sought each other's pleasure to the degree in which BDSM couples do there would be far fewer breakups. People in general are too self seeking, too far the other way inclined for their own good.

Never, ever worry about what other people think. They're never thinking about you - they're thinking about themselves - just like you are.

Betti

 

[Guest]

I think that this is where the differences between submission and slavery can become blurred. When does an obedient sub become a slave? It's not a label that all subs want but some I think anticipate the needs and wants of their Dom to the point of slavery.

A Dom tells a slave to wear a red thong and she obeys

A Dom tells a slave to wear lacy thongs every day and she obeys

A sub dresses for her Dom in a lacy thong without being asked because she knows it pleases him

A sub dresses for her Dom in lacy thongs every day because she knows it pleases him

The differences in psychology are subtle ones.

It's very easy to become dependent on a Dom, to need him and to crave him. A good Dom however, knows that he is fulfilling a deep-seated, burning need in the woman who submits to him. He understands that his dominance of her is therefore an act of love, of protection. These are strong emotions. To the outside world the sub is seen as inferior in her subservience. A good Dom cherishes and values her, worships her in turn by giving her what she wants most from him.

I believe that the sub/dom relationship is an exaggerated version of a successful 'normal' one. If every couple was as devoted to each other and sought each other's pleasure to the degree in which BDSM couples do there would be far fewer breakups. People in general are too self seeking, too far the other way inclined for their own good.

Never, ever worry about what other people think. They're never thinking about you - they're thinking about themselves - just like you are.

Betti

I think you're so caught up on the picky ass little supposed difference between apples and oranges...

That some day you are going to get run over by a fruit truck.

 

[bettiboop]

You first

 

[Kajira Callista]

I think that this is where the differences between submission and slavery can become blurred. When does an obedient sub become a slave? It's not a label that all subs want but some I think anticipate the needs and wants of their Dom to the point of slavery.

A Dom tells a slave to wear a red thong and she obeys

A Dom tells a slave to wear lacy thongs every day and she obeys

A sub dresses for her Dom in a lacy thong without being asked because she knows it pleases him

A sub dresses for her Dom in lacy thongs every day because she knows it pleases him

The differences in psychology are subtle ones.

It's very easy to become dependent on a Dom, to need him and to crave him. A good Dom however, knows that he is fulfilling a deep-seated, burning need in the woman who submits to him. He understands that his dominance of her is therefore an act of love, of protection. These are strong emotions. To the outside world the sub is seen as inferior in her subservience. A good Dom cherishes and values her, worships her in turn by giving her what she wants most from him.

I believe that the sub/dom relationship is an exaggerated version of a successful 'normal' one. If every couple was as devoted to each other and sought each other's pleasure to the degree in which BDSM couples do there would be far fewer breakups. People in general are too self seeking, too far the other way inclined for their own good.

Never, ever worry about what other people think. They're never thinking about you - they're thinking about themselves - just like you are.

Betti

my belief is that, whatever label is attached..sub slave etc. the person is submissive. my intention was not to debate the depth of a slaves vs a subs devotion to his/her master/dom.
I also have to say that i see no difference in the breakup rate of D/s as compared to nilla. Relationships fail for many reasons. i guess my questions were misunderstood, if there is any way i can clarify them let me know.

 

[bettiboop]

Ok, I admit defeat. I take it all back and I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick.

Just as long as there's still a truck with EKVITKAR on the bumper.

Hope you find the answers you're looking for.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Ok, I admit defeat. I take it all back and I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick.

Just as long as there's still a truck with EKVITKAR on the bumper.

Hope you find the answers you're looking for.

this was not intended to be a contest of any sort. i started what i though would be an interesting topic. when i saw that you did not understand what i was meaning i told you i would clarify if you wanted.
i dont understand where "defeat" fits in.

 

[graceanne]

I think that most D/s relationships could be considered obsessive and psychotic. If any of my 'nilla friends told me that their SO's told them what to wear, and where they could and could not go, etc. I'd be a tad bit worried. It's work the other way if a guy told me that his girlfriend wouldn't do anything unless she's told that'd worry me, too. *shrugs*

I guess what's obsessive is up to the individual.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I think that most D/s relationships could be considered obsessive and psychotic. If any of my 'nilla friends told me that their SO's told them what to wear, and where they could and could not go, etc. I'd be a tad bit worried. It's work the other way if a guy told me that his girlfriend wouldn't do anything unless she's told that'd worry me, too. *shrugs*

I guess what's obsessive is up to the individual.

thank you gracie.

 

[Guest]

I think you're so caught up on the picky ass little supposed difference between apples and oranges...

That some day you are going to get run over by a fruit truck.

This....Is why you shouldn't post when you are annoyed with something else..

But.... While I should perhaps have said this better.. I stand by the basic idea of my original post..

 

[RJMasters]

This is something i have been wondering. It will require those big bad doms to come out of hiding though.

Can a submissive's devotion be mistaken for an obsessive psychopath?

Yes

Can an obsessive psychopath be mistaken for a devoted sub?

Yes

How do you tell the difference?

I'm gonna take my "best guess..."

obsessive psychopaths are often controling. They have it set in their mind what things should be like and then obsesses to that end. Should the Dominant have a differing view, its probable that this will send the obsessive psychopath into a frenzy. Whereas a devoted sub is more plyable and willing to change as the dominant changes. One is more obssesed with behavioral things, the other is more focused upon dominant's desires.

This is kind of dificult to express into words. Where's BB when you need her dang it.

I guess how I see it is, there is a difference in the motivation between the obsessed person and the devoted person. An obsessed person cannot help themselves, it is stem from a compulsion not by choice, and is usually based more upon lustfulness. Because it is based upon lustfulness it does not neccessarily need to be a two way excahnge. The person who is the object of the other person's obsession might not even like that person, hence stalking type stuff begins. An obessessed person is consumed by their obesession and they lose persepctive drowning out common sense and any other aspects of life.

Where as a devoted person still has control to make the choice. This allows them to keep perspective about other life matters and they make the best possible choice at any given time. Devotion is based more upon love which is a two way street and cares if their devotion is welcomed, wanted and appreciated.

So I guess the best way to tell the difference between the two is if the person has lost perspective and common sense. Robot type behavior may also be an indication as well.

Do you think the nilla world would view a subs devotion as obsessive?

Yes. This would be because they do not understand the way they express and feel love. This is mostly due however to making sterotypical type judgements. In my experience, if a nilla person took the time to understand or get to know the submissive, they are then able to see that it is not obsessive in orgin but more of a person who knows what makes them happy and is brave enough to live making that choice.

How would the nilla world see the Doms ability to control?

Most would think they are abusive, control freaks, dangerious. Many consider it make shovinistic behavior. Again when they get to know that person, they learn that this is not always the case, hoever the sterotypical judgments often prevent any desire to understand.



I think a great article could be made from this topic which poses the question to dominants..."Are the things you are doing with your submissive/slave leading them towards obsession or devotion?"

I would have to admit that there are parts of me that gets off on the idea of being obsessed over, but I have common sense enough to know that the reality of this would eventually ruin the relationship.

 

[alice_underneath]

Do you think the nilla world would view a subs devotion as obsessive?

No.

In the mainstream community in which I live, there is an expectation of egalitarian behavior in intimate relationships. The farther you stray from this democratic model, the more you risk condemnation.

Women who are controlled by their male SOs are viewed as victims. Men who are controlled by their female SOs are viewed with disdain. It's a double standard, to be sure. But it exists nonetheless.

In neither case does 'obsession' have anything to do with the way in which the relationship is viewed. It has much more to do with the perceived weakness or lack of self esteem of the one being controlled, and the perceived abusive nature of the one who is controlling.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Thank you RJ for your in depth response to what i felt were some serious questions.
Thank you Alice for shedding light on a part of things i didnt really take into account.

 

[alice_underneath]

obsessive psychopaths are often controling. They have it set in their mind what things should be like and then obsesses to that end.

This is an interesting point, generating images of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction in my mind.

Your point also prompts me to twist KC's questions a bit, and ask for your response to the following:

Can a dominant's control be mistaken for an obsessive psychopath?

Can an obsessive psychopath be mistaken for a controlling Dom/me?

How do you tell the difference?

Thank you Alice for shedding light on a part of things i didnt really take into account.

You're welcome.

 

[RJMasters]

This is an interesting point, generating images of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction in my mind.

Your point also prompts me to twist KC's questions a bit, and ask for your response to the following:

Can a dominant's control be mistaken for an obsessive psychopath?

Can an obsessive psychopath be mistaken for a controlling Dom/me?

How do you tell the difference?


You're welcome.

Theoretically would it be morally wrong to lure Alice to the bowling alley and grab her up by the seat of her pants and use her as a bowling ball for asking so many questions?

Honestly, I think it would be simillar..in the losing of perspective and common sense. Kinda more dangerious in many ways and should things not go according to plan, the submissive might find a dominant on their hands that won't stop, who might be out of control and might not respect limits since their compulsion is running the show. Could be really scary stuff.

 

[alice_underneath]

Theoretically would it be morally wrong to lure Alice to the bowling alley and grab her up by the seat of her pants and use her as a bowling ball for asking so many questions?

Two points about this response here, bub.

(a) KC asked the exact same number of questions, and (b) I am not shaped like a bowling ball.

Honestly, I think it would be simillar..in the losing of perspective and common sense. Kinda more dangerious in many ways and should things not go according to plan, the submissive might find a dominant on their hands that won't stop, who might be out of control and might not respect limits since their compulsion is running the show. Could be really scary stuff.

Yes, it could be really scary.

Which is why the questions (though numerous) are important to ask.

 

[RJMasters]

Two points about this response here, bub.

(a) KC asked the exact same number of questions, and (b) I am not shaped like a bowling ball.



Yes, it could be really scary.

Which is why the questions (though numerous) are important to ask.

lol. So now I am the official bub eh?

KC can't help ya she tied to the ball return.

Possible answer or solution to you not being shaped like a bowling ball...

We can fix that, I brought some rope...

But if you feel that strongly about it I guess I will let you slide(or ummmm not slide as it were ). Truth is I just wanted an excuse to grab you by the seat of the pants...

You always ask good questions...

 

[graceanne]

I was thinking on this today, for some reason, lol. I think the difference between an obsessive psychopath is how the person deals with rejection. If a person is 'obsessive' (or devoted - whatever) and their boyfriend/girlfriend says it's just not working out the obsessive psychopath will not go away. At the worst end they'll kill the person rather than let them be happy with soemone else. Or they might trash their car, or make threatening calls to new girl/boyfriends in the other ones life.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I am of the opinion that often, we masters enjoy a level of devotion that would scare a normal man.

I really like this post Uncle Rosco.

 

[Private_Label]

This is an interesting point, generating images of Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction in my mind.

Your point also prompts me to twist KC's questions a bit, and ask for your response to the following:

Can a dominant's control be mistaken for an obsessive psychopath?

Can an obsessive psychopath be mistaken for a controlling Dom/me?

How do you tell the difference?


You're welcome.

Which prompts my own set of comments & questions for anyone who would like to offer an opinion...

I can see how people who don't understand this lifestyle choice might see a Dom as an obsessive person - but wouldn't seeing them as psycopath depend on the nature of punishment/reward?

And for an obsessive Psycopath being mistaqken for a controlling Dom - wouldn't the nature of the relationship with the psycopath be based on non-consent where the one with the Dom be based on consent? i.e. the freedom of the sub to walk away? If the sub can't walk away, then the controlling person is obsessive. If the Dom will hurt the sub for choosing to leave, then the Dom would be a psycopath?

Or are you saying that there is more to the dynamic than the clean lines of "in a perfect world?"

 

[MasterSnatch]

I'm of this frame of mind.

Of those of us who are masters we want someone who is both devoted and obsessive to the point they will do what we want.

Call that psychotic if you wish but hey most people call any of what we do here to be crazy,freakish, disturbing or not right in the first place.

Personally I think that's part of the charm.