submissive desires vs. sex addiction

[eastern sun]

I need to start pointing to the elephant in my living room.

I'm an addict. I know that about myself, and have for years. In fact, when I was younger I kept very close reins on my sexual desires for fear that I would "lose control" and become identified solely by my sexuality (specifically, as a slut or a whore).

But, a couple of years ago, due to a number of changing circumstances, my husband and I began exploring our sexual desires with a vengeance. And today I need your help.

I know my submissive desires for devotion and ownership have become both obsessive and compulsive. I've experienced the thrills of "sub frenzy" and "total power exchange," which allowed me to be totally consumed by my desires. I have ritualized forms of sexual devotion that are part of my daily life. And I have relationships with men who are willing to enable this addiction.

Here's the problem. While freely experiencing my submissive sexuality, I have been happier than I have felt in years. I have felt more "myself" than ever before. I have understood long-standing habits of mind and behavior that didn't make sense. And etc. and etc. And I love the men I'm involved with.

When it turns addictive, though, I shirk my real life responsibilities. I grow moody and irritated. I deny the aspects of my experience that I know are unhealthy. I don't like myself. And I risk tearing the fabric of the life I have built over many, many years.

So, what do I do?

As an alcoholic and a drug addict, I know the solution is to remain abstinent.

But what is the answer in this case? Has anyone else grappled with this problem? Have you discovered any solutions? I look forward to your comments.

 

[JMohegan]

When it turns addictive, though, I shirk my real life responsibilities. I grow moody and irritated. I deny the aspects of my experience that I know are unhealthy. I don't like myself. And I risk tearing the fabric of the life I have built over many, many years.

So, what do I do?

As an alcoholic and a drug addict, I know the solution is to remain abstinent.

Back in the day, Coach would periodically give our team mini-lectures that we used to call his "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life" talks. For example:

"Chasin' skirt is no excuse for fallin' down on the job. Not in the classroom, and not on my field. And don't ever forget, boys, that any skirt worth chasin' won't even look at you sideways, if you let your mind and body get all outta shape, or start flunkin' outta school."


I could deliver similar admonitions to you, Eastern Sun, but I'm not sure it's necessary. More importantly, I'm not sure it would help.

You mention abstinence. But as an addict, you surely know that a sustainable solution to genuine addiction almost always involves professional assistance. Right?

 

[eastern sun]

You mention abstinence. But as an addict, you surely know that a sustainable solution to genuine addiction almost always involves professional assistance. Right?

Yes, I actually called a therapist this morning who specializes in sex addiction with couples. And I called my AA sponsor.

However, I can tell you, I really don't want to be told to stop what I'm doing. I want to be taught, somehow, to enjoy the intensity of these pleasures, and the deep commitment of the devotional aspects without triggering my natural addictive personality.

Is it possible?

Is my brain too sticky to handle this shit?

 

[JMohegan]

Yes, I actually called a therapist this morning who specializes in sex addiction with couples. And I called my AA sponsor.

However, I can tell you, I really don't want to be told to stop what I'm doing. I want to be taught, somehow, to enjoy the intensity of these pleasures, and the deep commitment of the devotional aspects without triggering my natural addictive personality.

Is it possible?

Is my brain too sticky to handle this shit?

Here's hoping that your therapist provides effective help in addressing these questions.

Best of luck to you, Eastern Sun.

 

[intothewoods]

I might be nutty, but I think the submission and the addiction can be separated out. Submission might just be your flavor of sex. I don't think the solution for sex addicts is that they never have sex again. The underlying cause of the addiction needs to be treated.

Find a good therapist - one who isn't going to blanche at the bdsm - but one who also isn't going to shy away from asking you tough questions.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I think intothewoods has a good point here. Submission is relatively new to you so it's naturally going to feel exciting. Have you always been highly sexed? Were you seeing multiple partners before you got kinky?

I love submitting to my Master and spend part of every day fantasizing about it. I also get a kick from knowing that I serve him and therefore he decides when and if we have sex. I could never demand it from him (he'd only go on strike for a week to make a point.) Is your husband as highly sexed as you? If not then who is really serving who when you get horny all the time? Do you want to be dominated and controlled in everything or just in the bedroom?

Once I first realised I enjoyed pain I did go through a phase of inflicting it a lot and became a little obessive. I had to make myself ease off and the fact that I needed to scared me a little so I've become more moderate since then.

A sex therapist is definitely a good idea. Some people use sex to distract them from other cravings as well though so if you have had other addictions that may be relevant.

Think this is a bit of a random post, so apologies.

 

[HottieMama]

eastern sun...

Since you are in AA, i figured i would ask if you were familiar with SLAA? (Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous) SLAA They may be a resource to use in seeking help, and i know they take a "moderate" approach to sexuality and sexual expression...i.e. they don't preach absolute abstinence.

 

[FurryFury]

Here is a thought, yes you can live without sex but who would want to? Few.

There are food addictions. Can those people live without food? No. So they must learn to manage themselves while surrounded and partaking of the very thing they have a problem with. I would research the methods taught to them and adapt them, along with help of course.

Good luck!

 

[eastern sun]

thanks

Have you always been highly sexed? Were you seeing multiple partners before you got kinky?

Is your husband as highly sexed as you? If not then who is really serving who when you get horny all the time? Do you want to be dominated and controlled in everything or just in the bedroom?

Once I first realised I enjoyed pain I did go through a phase of inflicting it a lot and became a little obessive. I had to make myself ease off and the fact that I needed to scared me a little so I've become more moderate since then.

A sex therapist is definitely a good idea. Some people use sex to distract them from other cravings as well though so if you have had other addictions that may be relevant.

To answer a few of your questions - I had sex early and moved quickly into fairly extreme forms of sexual behavior, but have always kept a tight rein on - mostly by practicing monogamy. My husband has wanted me to take on lovers for many years and when I finally acted on it a couple of years ago, the structure of my behavioral restraints collapsed. Whereas before my sexual activity was limited by my relationship, now I could do whatever I wanted.

My husband and I have always been compatible sexually, but in recent years I have had more free time. He has enjoyed watching me pursue desires that take me places he and I have never gone. and as you rightly suggest, we have run into problems in answering the question of who is serving who.

I have wanted to live in a total power exchange with my husband, with only my creative work under my own control, but I'm not very good at following his rules when I'm having sex with other men who are also dominants. (He, by the way, required that I take on lovers as part of our relationship.) The old servant of two masters. I have even tried to find lovers who weren't dominant, but ultimately they don't interest me.

You said you got obsessive and then made yourself ease off - was it before or after you found your dom? I think I'm at that point where you claim you got "scared a little," what happened next?

undoubtably I'm using sex to avoid other issues, anxiety, loss, etc. my problem is that even though I am willing to address those other issues, I don't want to stop what I'm doing, and fear it will be the only solution. . .

 

[eastern sun]

thanks

eastern sun...

Since you are in AA, i figured i would ask if you were familiar with SLAA? (Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous) SLAA They may be a resource to use in seeking help, and i know they take a "moderate" approach to sexuality and sexual expression...i.e. they don't preach absolute abstinence.

I will definitely check them out.

 

[wayfarm]

This is a tough situation. I hope you are able to gain the insights you need.

Best WF

 

[eastern sun]

the crux of the question

Here is a thought, yes you can live without sex but who would want to? Few.

There are food addictions. Can those people live without food? No. So they must learn to manage themselves while surrounded and partaking of the very thing they have a problem with. I would research the methods taught to them and adapt them, along with help of course.

Good luck!

Which goes to the crux of my question. . . I know I can have sex without compulsion.

But can I have sex the way I've come to crave it (ouch!), with devotional rituals, uncertainty offset by faith, pain leading to subspace highs and the after-care lows and mild depressions, total submission of my personality and behavior to the direction of a loving but imperfect dom, etc. without setting in motion that addiction?

To me, the submissive's experience is so similar to the addicts (maybe that's because I'm doing it like an addict), that it's hard for me to imagine it otherwise.

I'm wondering how you all have solved it?

(Everyone's responses are helping tremendously, and I appreciate this opportunity to dig in to the problem. That elephant's crap was beginning to stink.)

 

[VelvetDarkness]

To answer a few of your questions - I had sex early and moved quickly into fairly extreme forms of sexual behavior, but have always kept a tight rein on - mostly by practicing monogamy. My husband has wanted me to take on lovers for many years and when I finally acted on it a couple of years ago, the structure of my behavioral restraints collapsed. Whereas before my sexual activity was limited by my relationship, now I could do whatever I wanted.

So, if having multiple lovers has encouraged you to push yourself until you no longer in control - which you find addictive anyway - do you still enjoy it? Do you want two Masters or just more from your husband than he can give? Do you enjoy it as much as you did two years ago? You sound to me like you're in danger of becoming jaded and then you'll feel even more dissatisfied and empty than you do now when life gets in the way of the fantasyland you have built yourself. What will you do then? I don't mean to offend and I apoligise if my thoughts are inaccurate.

My husband and I have always been compatible sexually, but in recent years I have had more free time. He has enjoyed watching me pursue desires that take me places he and I have never gone. and as you rightly suggest, we have run into problems in answering the question of who is serving who.

It reads as though he told you to take lovers because you needed the extra stimulation and he wanted you to be happy and fullfilled. Now that you've gone a way down that road and still not found it enough it may be time to ask whether this set up is healthy for you. Perhaps the middle ground between your current lifestyle and the abstinence you have had to apply to other problems is to go back to monogamy while you re-evaluate things with a therapist.

I have wanted to live in a total power exchange with my husband, with only my creative work under my own control, but I'm not very good at following his rules when I'm having sex with other men who are also dominants. (He, by the way, required that I take on lovers as part of our relationship.) The old servant of two masters. I have even tried to find lovers who weren't dominant, but ultimately they don't interest me.

Maybe you could agree that, where there is a conflict of interest between your dominants, that your husband takes priority. You say you have gone places with your lovers that your husband has never taken you. Could that be in part because you've both been too busy for him to experiement more? There might be a way to compromise between your needs and his.

You said you got obsessive and then made yourself ease off - was it before or after you found your dom? I think I'm at that point where you claim you got "scared a little," what happened next?

I'm going to pm you on this one if that's ok.

undoubtably I'm using sex to avoid other issues, anxiety, loss, etc. my problem is that even though I am willing to address those other issues, I don't want to stop what I'm doing, and fear it will be the only solution. . .

I think it'll be the only solution if you let things get out of hand enough. The fact that you know there's a problem and want to resolve it is encouragement on its own. Does your husband know you're having trouble with all this? What's his view?

 

[FurryFury]

Which goes to the crux of my question. . . I know I can have sex without compulsion.

But can I have sex the way I've come to crave it (ouch!), with devotional rituals, uncertainty offset by faith, pain leading to subspace highs and the after-care lows and mild depressions, total submission of my personality and behavior to the direction of a loving but imperfect dom, etc. without setting in motion that addiction?

To me, the submissive's experience is so similar to the addicts (maybe that's because I'm doing it like an addict), that it's hard for me to imagine it otherwise.

I'm wondering how you all have solved it?

(Everyone's responses are helping tremendously, and I appreciate this opportunity to dig in to the problem. That elephant's crap was beginning to stink.)

This is not a situation I've ever had though I do know if I took other Dom lovers I could easily "feel" addicted. I tend to obsess over things and fall into them completely while and that word is key, I'm doing them.

When I'm not doing them I have an overfull live with people I love and like. I am still obsessing but usually I can keep it under control. I do let the reigns slip, a little now and then giving myself tiny bits of freedom or kindnesses.

I do fear I would NOT want to come home to my life and loved ones should I dabble. Honestly, I think your husband is very foolish. What he demands of you re: being with others is undermining what is best for you and for your marriage.

I can totally understand how it would be difficult to mind his instructions while also giving yourself over to the authority of another.

But like is not always like. The feeling of submission and sub space is like yet, I suspect also, in some ways, NOT like addiction. How not to want that which feeds your soul? How not to obsess and hunger for it?

And yet, it doesn't have to be addiction at all just something terribly like it.

I don't have the answers you seek. I'm just sharing my scattered thoughts.

*HUG*

 

[midwestyankee]

To what extent have you shared this concern with your husband?

My reading of this, and perhaps it's a tad simplistic, is that he has abdicated some of his reponsibilities as your primary dominant. He has instructed you to carry out certain behaviors but does not seem to have held up the part of the power exchange bargain that calls for him to look after your health and welfare when you follow his instructions.

I think that you'll need to involve him very closely in this. The answer may be as simple as redefining how you serve him through your other lovers or it may call for him to become an active partner in couples therapy. Or maybe something in between. But he is a crucial part of the equation here.

Make sure that the two of you do the math together.

 

[eastern sun]

So, if having multiple lovers has encouraged you to push yourself until you no longer in control - which you find addictive anyway - do you still enjoy it? Do you want two Masters or just more from your husband than he can give? Do you enjoy it as much as you did two years ago?

You sound to me like you're in danger of becoming jaded and then you'll feel even more dissatisfied and empty than you do now when life gets in the way of the fantasyland you have built yourself. What will you do then?

You say you have gone places with your lovers that your husband has never taken you. Could that be in part because you've both been too busy for him to experiement more? There might be a way to compromise between your needs and his.

Does your husband know you're having trouble with all this? What's his view?

I had to know somebody was going to start asking the hard questions eventually. And maybe it's time for me to work on this privately, though I appreciate the vulnerability it makes me feel to find myself here on the open and anonymous forum.

I have multiple lovers because no one is there all the time. I would much prefer to focus my devotion on just one person. Originally, I thought that person would be my husband. Today, I don't know. He seems to think I want a dom other than him.

I enjoy myself more today than I did two years ago before I began taking on other lovers. However, I am finding the time I spend with them, serving them, writing for them, pining for them, is taking time away from other non-sexual activities I would like to devote myself to.

My fantasylands collapse every six weeks or so I've discovered - sometimes I work harder than ever to build them again, brighter and more beautiful. Sometimes I grit my teeth and admit that my reality is just fine (and it is). I was jaded at 16. I've been trying my damnedest since then to reinvigorate my world with more magic. Ultimately, my husband and I will have to find a way to live happily ever after (this is just one more brick in the road).

My husband's discomfort with where I'm going is in fact at the heart of this problem. I have begun doing things he has not given me permission to do. Obviously this is a problem. (I want to stop. I want to and I can't)

 

[VelvetDarkness]

The feeling of submission and sub space is like yet, I suspect also, in some ways, NOT like addiction. How not to want that which feeds your soul? How not to obsess and hunger for it?

See, I'm different here in that my addiction is for my Master. I personally couldn't submit to someone I wasn't deeply in love with and crucially, it wouldn't have the same effect on me. My forays into subspace are intensely bonding times for Master and I. I couldn't let go nearly enough with a stranger.

IMO eastern sun is bottoming to these other lovers and while that's fun, it has none of the responsibility attached to it that psychological submission and service does. So when she goes home to her husband she naturally finds submission to him more of a chore and less addictive than kinky sex without strings. The trouble is that this submission to him should be the most special part of their relationship. He in turn may see it as a burden because eastern sun is so clearly highly sexed. This leads us back to midwestyankee's point that he's evaded some responsibility for his sub by letting other dominants do a share of the effort it takes to keep her happy.

There's a dereliction of duty on both sides here I think and that definitely needs to be addressed before it festers into full blown resentment.

Am I right eastern sun? Again I apologise if I've missed the mark.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I had to know somebody was going to start asking the hard questions eventually. And maybe it's time for me to work on this privately, though I appreciate the vulnerability it makes me feel to find myself here on the open and anonymous forum.

I have multiple lovers because no one is there all the time. I would much prefer to focus my devotion on just one person. Originally, I thought that person would be my husband. Today, I don't know. He seems to think I want a dom other than him.

I enjoy myself more today than I did two years ago before I began taking on other lovers. However, I am finding the time I spend with them, serving them, writing for them, pining for them, is taking time away from other non-sexual activities I would like to devote myself to.

My fantasylands collapse every six weeks or so I've discovered - sometimes I work harder than ever to build them again, brighter and more beautiful. Sometimes I grit my teeth and admit that my reality is just fine (and it is). I was jaded at 16. I've been trying my damnedest since then to reinvigorate my world with more magic. Ultimately, my husband and I will have to find a way to live happily ever after (this is just one more brick in the road).

My husband's discomfort with where I'm going is in fact at the heart of this problem. I have begun doing things he has not given me permission to do. Obviously this is a problem. (I want to stop. I want to and I can't)

I'm sorry, I know I'm being very direct. I can assure you that here on this forum you will find only respect, empathy and the best intentioned advice. I understand if this discussion has got too deep too fast. I'm well meaning when I post but often try to peck at the heart of something before maybe I should.

 

[eastern sun]

I'm sorry, I know I'm being very direct. I can assure you that here on this forum you will find only respect, empathy and the best intentioned advice. I understand if this discussion has got too deep too fast. I'm well meaning when I post but often try to peck at the heart of something before maybe I should.

Please, I'm grateful. Even if it hurts a bit to peck at the heart, it invariably opens the mind.

Thank you for your penetrating questions.

 

[lushlucid]

Addictive personalities are very hard.
How do you go with your son with this problem, does he notice?

 

[Netzach]

Here is a thought, yes you can live without sex but who would want to? Few.

There are food addictions. Can those people live without food? No. So they must learn to manage themselves while surrounded and partaking of the very thing they have a problem with. I would research the methods taught to them and adapt them, along with help of course.

Good luck!

What an ideal analogy, actually.

 

[graceanne]

K has a sexual addiction. How we know that is not anything I'm going to discuss here, nor is it anyone's business.

The reason I'm bringing this up is he's done several sex-addict groups and other related stuff. The number one thing he does for his sexual addiction is remain totally honest with me about everything. That includes his sexual thoughts, etc. One of the things I do to help him is not over react to anything that's going on in his head.

As an alcoholic you know the power that secrets have. And you also know that the only way to remove that power is to tell the secret and then remain open and honest after that. Easier said than done, sometimes, but there it is.

 

[Luvkitty33]

Unfortunately, I don't have any advice for you, but I just wanted to wish you luck in coming to some sort of a resolution to this......in your mind, in your life, and in your heart. I know it can't be easy, and I can feel the pain in your entry, but hang in there. I think the advice you've received here is really good, and I hope you find it to be stepping stones to a happier more settled you.

Take Care!!

 

[FungiUg]

Having just gone through dealing with a friend who is recently out of the intensive care unit after trying to commit suicide (messily) because she pretty much lost all control and was throwing herself and anyone/everyone, I know that this sort of obsessive behaivour can result in serious consequences.

I don't think we are necessarily talking abstinence, bur rather pace and balance. If you treat it as "oh, I must abstain" then you are likely to destroy your chance of making positive changes before you start. Also, since this is a part of who you are, I'm not sure it would be healthy to completely eliminate it from your life. It's the lack of balance (where this part of your life is subsuming the other parts and you aren't doing the other things you need to) that is the issue.

Yes, therapy/counselling can help, as can good self help books and references.

 

[eastern sun]

I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. I agree with you all that it is not a matter of total abstention, but rather one of conscious balance and a careful look at the intentions behind the action.

I do know that I am going to be advised to stay off the internet. And at least for now, I believe that is probably good advice.

Yesterday, I didn't want to be told even that.

I believe that I will be able to find a happy medium, where my sexual desires can be expressed without obsessive and compulsive behaviors. With the help of therapists (I actually found one I might like) and twelve-step programs, I'm off to find it.

Thanks again. I hope we all find the happiness we are seeking.