Submission: Fears, obstacles and stumbling blocks...

[~ Emmeline ~]

This thread is aimed towards submissives and slaves, but I welcome thought from others that have words of wisdom to offer.

I have looked at various bulletin boards, the personal websites of submissives and slaves, all of the major BDSM educational websites and have yet to find one article covering the subject of giving the gift of submission for the first time -- and fears associated with making that decision. Not a lovely story telling how beautiful it was, but the flipside of the coin. The fears, obstacles and stumbling blocks. I just don't buy it that everyone on the Internet stood up one day and offered themselves to a dominant, no matter how much training, without any fears. Maybe everyone wants to appear to be the perfect submissive to their dominant, even after the fact, and not admit they may have had fears regarding submission. Maybe not, I can't rightfully say.

I'm not speaking of the fear of handing over control after one has already submitted to another. This person has already offered their submission.

So, I offer the following questions for discussion, and truly hope to get some heartfelt replies.

******************************************************************

What fears did you have to work through before being able to offer your submission to another?

Some food for thought...

*Fear of ruining a good friendship or loving relationship if you fail to be able to maintain the D/s relationship that you perceive the dominant wants or needs?

*Fear of submission because you never know what might be asked of you in the future? (Fear of the unknown)

*Fear of placing your trust in even the most trustworthy hands?

*Fear of changing yourself to someone else's' idea of what a submissive/slave should be?

*Fear of the titles 'submissive' or 'slave.' Are they intimidating?

*Fear of finding out you may be fine with D/s in the bedroom, but can't carry it over into real life?

*Fear of commitment based on your fears?

*Fear of submitting online when you need to experience domination in person to truly feel it in your heart? Why do some find it so easy to submit to another that they have never met in person? Is that, in itself, even realistic?

*Fear of pain, or fear of being pushed to limits that you cannot tolerate ... and having to bow out of the relationship because you feel you can no longer meet the needs of your dominant?

*Fear of handing over control of your body and soul when you aren't sure where this may lead down the road?

*Fear that something is wrong with you because you are lovingly told you are ready to give your submission, but can't because you don't feel you are ready? Is it mental block, or is it intuitive thinking that keeps you from taking on more than you are ready to handle?

******************************************************************

I know that there are so many possible variables, and the above are but a few. I don't assume any of the fears are based on low self-esteem, emotional or physical abuse, or feelings of low self-worth, but understand they may be contributing factors.

I would love to hear from those that have had, or are having trouble giving their submission to another.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I am so glad someone started this thread, and I'm as curious as you are to hear some real-life stories, to counter the fairy tales we often hear.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Time takes Time

Thanks for the great thread, Emmeline. The major issue for me, when I think back to me giving my submission to Him, was trust. Talk about a major issue LOL. Trust is the foundation, the bedrock in a D/s relationship. In my opinion, without that, you might as well pack it up and just go home. In two of my prior relationships, one a play partner relationship, and one a long-term relationship where he had been interested in BDSM strictly as bedroom play, trust had been shattered and stepped on and destroyed.

When Sir and I began our relationship, it did not begin by me dropping to my knees and declaring that I was His submissive. He neither asked for that, nor did I offer. We dated. Yep. Dated. How else can You develop trust in one another? I wasn't about to offer my SELF to this person I knew from computer conversations and phone conversations...that's the thing--in submission, in my opinion, you are giving your SELF...the pieces and parts that deeply and truly make up what is "YOU". It takes time, and trust to get to a point where I could feel right about sharing that with someone.

Some months later, I reached that point, and joyfully became His submissive. But there are places, yet, that I can't go. Places that my once play partner ravaged and hurt. I have a near-paralyzing fear of nipple clamps, and although I trust Him to take me incredibly deep places of humiliation and pain, this one simple thing eludes us, and me. He is patient. I am patient. I want to oversome that fear so badly, to put that person, that incident behind me, to take away the POWER that person had over me, once and for all. It will come, in time. To quote Frank Herbert from Dune, "Fear is the mindkiller."

There is no person in this world I trust more than Him, these days. But it didn't happen in a day, a week, or a month. Time takes time.

~anelize

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

What fears did you have to work through before being able to offer your submission to another?

I know that there are so many possible variables, and the above are but a few. I don't assume any of the fears are based on low self-esteem, emotional or physical abuse, or feelings of low self-worth, but understand they may be contributing factors.

I would love to hear from those that have had, or are having trouble giving their submission to another.

Most of my fears have always been about the ACT of submission. Not the mindset. I have experienced most of the fears you have mentioned at one time or another and I deal daily with the thought of gifting my submission to a male. Most of my fears are not unwarranted, as i have been involved in this lifestyle (from both sides of the fence) for an extremely long time.

The most important issue, as anelize stated all ready, is trust. How does one know that you can trust this person to do what's best for both of you? How do you know whether or not the person wants or needs the same thing from your submission as you do. Any sort of relationship has elements of give and take, but in D/s the roles are more defined. So then the question becomes: How much can i take? How much will they allow me?

Those who state that joyful submission is the way things are for them must live in a world where none of these worries affect them and that is a good thing. But for the majority of the people i know, submission is HARD. Not because one fights the submission but because the Gift is all of them...Body and Soul.

Just my opinion
The Brat Princess
PET

 

[catalina_francisco]

What fears did you have to work through before being able to offer your submission to another?

Some food for thought...

*Fear of ruining a good friendship or loving relationship if you fail to be able to maintain the D/s relationship that you perceive the dominant wants or needs?

This was a big one for me as I had been on a mission to find the one I was meant for, and for a variety of valid reasons, the most prevalent being fitting into government time schedules to ensure our future together, we had to move quicker than either of us would normally even consider. Though for both of us there was a feeling we had found our soulmate, there were those well meaning friends and family cautioning us both, and I being always my own worst critic, often felt I would not measure up over time and instead fulfil the fears of others. I did not want to disappoint him, or myself.

*Fear of submission because you never know what might be asked of you in the future? (Fear of the unknown)

This was something we discussed in length before committing to each other, and also during the whole process, and still do. We went through what would be required of me, and review this regularly. The open discussion diminishes a lot of the fears about future requirements to a certain degree, as does the agreement we maintain to never do anything we know will hurt the other in any way.

We also acknowledge mistakes and bad judgements can be a fact of life so have made it a certainty that if either has difficulty with any aspects of the relationship, we work through it together never blaming the other, and never trying to avoid responsibility....just a togetherness that supports what we both want, and respects the relationship we both treasure, and an understanding this commitment is for life....ie. all problems have to be dealt with as there is no option for my release ever.

*Fear of placing your trust in even the most trustworthy hands?

Trust has always been a big issue in my life and still is, but I can say Master has earned a trust from me I never thought possible. In all relationships in the past, a major disagreement or misunderstanding would have me fearing the worst was about to happen.....with him I know no matter what we go through, we do it together and have never regretted our decision, nor thought for a moment it may all end. It amazes me we can be so in tune and together on this, to never doubt our love and commitment. Added to that, even before we were physically together he showed me the depths to which he could be trusted and the lengths to which he was prepared to go to ensure I would be his and happy.

*Fear of changing yourself to someone else's' idea of what a submissive/slave should be?

This was never a fear for me as firstly I am an extremly strong person who has had my strength tested over and over, so though I can be flexible, I know who I am to the core and made sure any Dominant I was communicating with understood who I was and what I was looking for in a Master, and what I felt they could expect in me as a slave. I had a clear idea of what 'slave' meant to me, and sought someone who shared the same or very similar view. I was also extremely blessed to have a mentor who worked through so many things with me over a 2 year period, and guided me in my explorations in the lifestyle and what I sought, and supported me all the way. He is still a close friend, and Master is happy to have him remain so in our lives.

*Fear of the titles 'submissive' or 'slave.' Are they intimidating?

I suppose it is natural to at times fear the expectations and whether you can always please and deliver all you have promised, but then that is part of the allure. For me 'slave' was the only option I could see for myself, so I felt more excited at the possibility of finding my dream, than intimidated. Partly I was also relieved of a lot of the intimidation as although I experimented with dominants before Master, there was always an understanding it was only experimentation as a submissive as my role of slave was reserved for one only, and if I never found that one, I would remain free to submit only on a temporary basis with those I chose to, and always free to say 'no'.

*Fear of finding out you may be fine with D/s in the bedroom, but can't carry it over into real life?

Spent a long time wanting it 24/7 and as my imagination is such I am usually able to transport myself into situations in the mind and guage an idea of how I would cope with the reality, I knew what I wanted and to the depths I wanted it. I was once again helped in this by my mentor, and some I experimented with, and soon realised the bedroom was only a fraction of the domination I hungered for.

*Fear of commitment based on your fears?

To me commitment was what I hungered. If it was hard, all the better as I thrive on challenge and find if things are too easy, I lose interest and become bored and disillussioned. To me I knew it was going to be hard to maintain the commitment as I have always been a free spirit, so I knew in finding it difficult, I would also find it easy.

*Fear of submitting online when you need to experience domination in person to truly feel it in your heart? Why do some find it so easy to submit to another that they have never met in person? Is that, in itself, even realistic?

Not for everyone, and certainly not something I envisioned for myself. I met many before Master who I had first become acquainted with online. Master and I did not intend committing before meeting in the flesh, and it was certainly way out of character for both of us, but for both we realised there was something there we had never known before. With the others I met, although I looked forward to the meetings (usually), I had in my mind where they were going to fall short of what I was seeking and was never proven wrong.

With Master, I tried to find something, but there was nothing I could name as even remotely a possible question mark to our future together. That scared me more than anything as I then feared losing the chance at happiness I had only dreamed about before. The night I committed to him, it was not 100% planned for either of us but happened despite our logic, and despite his mother knocking on his door in panic while we talked on the phone..LOL......we waited for the next morning to get that sick feeling of 'what have I done', but neither of us felt anything but supreme joy, which he found himself, the proverbial bachelor, following with the declaration we would be married.

*Fear of pain, or fear of being pushed to limits that you cannot tolerate ... and having to bow out of the relationship because you feel you can no longer meet the needs of your dominant?

I crave pain as much as he craves to give it. We move to extend my already extensive pain barriers, then we relax them for awhile so we get to extend all over again. He knows my body better than I, and stops even when I beg for more. Our needs are complimentary to each other so the fear I cannot please him in this way is non existant. If we go through a particularly difficult session I know he is going to give me the strength I need.

There are times, due to the peculiarlity of hormones and a woman's body and emotional sensitivity, where something normally easy to endure seems unbearably painful or unbearable....it is his decision to make allowances or push me through it. I usually welcome him pushing those barriers as they help me to grow and gain confidence in my ability to fulfil his needs. As for leaving, that is never an option.

*Fear of handing over control of your body and soul when you aren't sure where this may lead down the road?

It is this fear which drives me and gives me the supreme thrill. I trust him to make the right decisions for both of us,and if in doubt at any time I share my thoughts with him as he demands of me. This is all part of guaranteeing he is able to ensure he does not harm me in any way physically, psychologically, or emotionally. As his property, he does not want to harm me irreparably, as that is not going to serve his purposes.

*Fear that something is wrong with you because you are lovingly told you are ready to give your submission, but can't because you don't feel you are ready? Is it mental block, or is it intuitive thinking that keeps you from taking on more than you are ready to handle?

I understand it is impossible to be superwoman and always be 100% ready. Master also does not want me to be a doormat in that I will accept anything he demands of me without sometimes having to struggle with my own demons and frailties....he too likes a challenge!! To us this is not the type submission we feed on. He helps me explore these feelings if I do not already know where they are coming from, and then we devise the best ways to approach it to help overcome my difficulties. We acknowledge we are both human and as such he can make mistakes, I can find times when I hesitate and/or ask for clarification. The priority is working together to enable me to be the best slave I can be, and as such please him by serving him in the ways he needs, wants, and deserves.

Catalina

 

[Desdemona]

<snip>

What fears did you have to work through before being able to offer your submission to another?

Some food for thought...

*Fear of ruining a good friendship or loving relationship if you fail to be able to maintain the D/s relationship that you perceive the dominant wants or needs?

I was concerned about losing the friendship. I liked Snooze alot and had been through a bad experience. I wasn't sure I was ready.

*Fear of submission because you never know what might be asked of you in the future? (Fear of the unknown)

I didn't have big fears about what would be asked of me, however, I didn't at first realise how hard some of it would be.

*Fear of placing your trust in even the most trustworthy hands?

I was terrified to trust. I had been burned and wasn't sure I could ever truly trust again. He had to prove Himself to me repeatedly.

*Fear of changing yourself to someone else's' idea of what a submissive/slave should be?

I don't know that fear of changing is really the operative term for me. Its been more like a bit of resistance to changing. I'm stubborn and had spent years becoming who I was.

*Fear of the titles 'submissive' or 'slave.' Are they intimidating?

I hated the title of *slave*. To me, at first, it was derogatory. It took some time for me to adjust to being referred to as a slave. It has taken time to adjust to the reality of behaving and thinking in such a submissive fashion.

*Fear of finding out you may be fine with D/s in the bedroom, but can't carry it over into real life?

Carrying my submission into everyday life has been a challenge. Changing the way I dress, changing some of my personal grooming habits, and doing things His way have, at times, been tough. Early on, there were times I wanted to just quit because it seemed like I would never adjust.

*Fear of commitment based on your fears?

I had a major fear of committment. I was still carrying some hopes of reconciliation with an old love. I was honest and up front about it and He was willing to take the risk that I would leave. Because I liked and respected Snooze so very much, I was terrified that I would hurt Him. So, until I resolved those feelings, I didn't commit fully. Then later, as my own feelings deepened and evolved, I began to fear that I would be the one hurt. It ties into the fear of trusting. I was afraid He would just decide He no longer wanted me and would release me without warning. I had to get past that fear as well. My friends knew that I loved Him and had truly submitted in my heart before I was ever able to acknowledge it to myself. Thats how scared I was.

*Fear of submitting online when you need to experience domination in person to truly feel it in your heart? Why do some find it so easy to submit to another that they have never met in person? Is that, in itself, even realistic?

This wasn't applicable for me. I am not well suited to a LDR, therefore I conciously chose to only be with someone in real life. I need regular real life contact with my dominant partner in order to be happy.

*Fear of pain, or fear of being pushed to limits that you cannot tolerate ... and having to bow out of the relationship because you feel you can no longer meet the needs of your dominant?

I have occasionally worried that I would have to bow out of the relationship due to the poly issue. Learning to share has been tough for me. That has been the only need/expectation that I have feared not being able to fulfill.

*Fear of handing over control of your body and soul when you aren't sure where this may lead down the road?

Handing over control is a huge step. So, yes, I was a bit afraid at first.

*Fear that something is wrong with you because you are lovingly told you are ready to give your submission, but can't because you don't feel you are ready? Is it mental block, or is it intuitive thinking that keeps you from taking on more than you are ready to handle?

This never happened with me so I really can't answer it.

******************************************************************

All I can say is that for me, it took a leap of faith. I'm glad I was able to face the fear and go forward. Giving myself to Snooze has been a profoundly rewarding experience. I give thanks every single day that He found me. Its not all easy and like any other relationship, we have challenges. Still, I'm honored to be making this journey at His side.

 

[Arden]

What a great idea for a thread, Emmeline. I'll be back to post when I have enough time to collect my thoughts.

 

[InnerDarkness]

What a great idea for a thread, Emmeline. I'll be back to post when I have enough time to collect my thoughts.

I have been thinking about this thread a lot since I first saw it because I DO have many fears about my submission...

I shall be back to post some thoughts, too

 

[FungiUg]

One of the things the submissive I most recently played with spoke of as an initial fear was really just inadequacy and fear of failure. Not living up to what I wanted, not being able to do it, not being attractive enough or sexy enough for me, not enjoying what I did with her, and so on. This was way more an issue for her than safety.

It's a huge step... so I would be disinclined to believe anyone who claimed they weren't scared when they made it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

One of the things the submissive I most recently played with spoke of as an initial fear was really just inadequacy and fear of failure. Not living up to what I wanted, not being able to do it, not being attractive enough or sexy enough for me, not enjoying what I did with her, and so on. This was way more an issue for her than safety.

It's a huge step... so I would be disinclined to believe anyone who claimed they weren't scared when they made it.

I too think submissives fear failing to please far more than most other aspects of submission. I do think though that fear can be lessened by knowing yourself well, your capabilities, and a feeling the discussions have been open, clear, and often revisited a few times for clarification before actually getting to the 'doing' stage. Is also great if you have a relationship going which gives you the feeling you will be accepted for your desire and willingness to submit first and foremost, and that any other difficulties will be worked on in a supportive way with your dominant. Is a lot about preparation and like minds I think.

C

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

I am so glad someone started this thread, and I'm as curious as you are to hear some real-life stories, to counter the fairy tales we often hear.

Hello Johnny, thanks for stopping in. I think I'd rather see them as individual perceptions than fairy tales, but I'm glad that you came by, nonetheless!

Emme

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

Re: Time takes Time

Originally posted by AnelizeDarkEyes

Thanks for the great thread, Emmeline. The major issue for me, when I think back to me giving my submission to Him, was trust. Talk about a major issue LOL. Trust is the foundation, the bedrock in a D/s relationship. In my opinion, without that, you might as well pack it up and just go home. In two of my prior relationships, one a play partner relationship, and one a long-term relationship where he had been interested in BDSM strictly as bedroom play, trust had been shattered and stepped on and destroyed.

Yes, trust is such an important factor. I have no prior bdsm relationships to draw experience from, but I have experienced the same in a vanilla relationship or two. It took a lot of introspection and time to heal, and at the same time, I had to look at my own needs for the future. I can't see spending any time in a relationship that is going nowhere today. I have less patience, but I am keenly aware of what will work for me. I no longer suffer from a lack of trust in others as I once did, but find that I try to analyze myself too much at times.

When Sir and I began our relationship, it did not begin by me dropping to my knees and declaring that I was His submissive. He neither asked for that, nor did I offer. We dated. Yep. Dated. How else can You develop trust in one another? I wasn't about to offer my SELF to this person I knew from computer conversations and phone conversations...that's the thing--in submission, in my opinion, you are giving your SELF...the pieces and parts that deeply and truly make up what is "YOU". It takes time, and trust to get to a point where I could feel right about sharing that with someone.

Some months later, I reached that point, and joyfully became His submissive. But there are places, yet, that I can't go. Places that my once play partner ravaged and hurt. I have a near-paralyzing fear of nipple clamps, and although I trust Him to take me incredibly deep places of humiliation and pain, this one simple thing eludes us, and me. He is patient. I am patient. I want to oversome that fear so badly, to put that person, that incident behind me, to take away the POWER that person had over me, once and for all. It will come, in time. To quote Frank Herbert from Dune, "Fear is the mindkiller."

There is no person in this world I trust more than Him, these days. But it didn't happen in a day, a week, or a month. Time takes time.

~anelize

Fear is a mindkiller. What a great quote, thank you!

Time and patience do seem to be the key to making things work. If you don't mind, though, how did you know that you were ready to submit to him? Were you 100 percent sure without hesitation, or was there a leap of faith involved? If so, how did you get past it?

Emme

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

Re: Re: Submission: Fears, obstacles and stumbling blocks...

Originally posted by apet4you

The most important issue, as anelize stated all ready, is trust. How does one know that you can trust this person to do what's best for both of you? How do you know whether or not the person wants or needs the same thing from your submission as you do. Any sort of relationship has elements of give and take, but in D/s the roles are more defined. So then the question becomes: How much can i take? How much will they allow me?

You said something profound here. "How do you know whether or not the person wants or needs the same thing from your submission that you do?" I don't have all of the issues that I outlined in the original post, I was trying to pose a question and offer many ideas for discussion. But this one is one situation that affects me. Sometimes I have to push to get his thoughts on this matter. I want a list of his needs, short and long term, because I genuinely care about his desires. Without knowing what he truly wants, I feel as if I can't give my submission. I want to, but my mind won't allow me to do so without having all of the answers -- or at least a good definition that outlines the areas where he might like to see us grow.

Those who state that joyful submission is the way things are for them must live in a world where none of these worries affect them and that is a good thing. But for the majority of the people i know, submission is HARD. Not because one fights the submission but because the Gift is all of them...Body and Soul.

Just my opinion
The Brat Princess
PET

Thank you so much for your reply, Pet. It's comforting to know that others might find submission to be a difficult thing. I needed to hear that...

Emme

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Re: Re: Time takes Time

Time and patience do seem to be the key to making things work. If you don't mind, though, how did you know that you were ready to submit to him? Were you 100 percent sure without hesitation, or was there a leap of faith involved? If so, how did you get past it?

Emme

There wasn't any great leap of faith for me when I submitted to Him, no. I knew I wanted to submit to Him, for many reasons, the least of which is that He made me feel safe, and secure, and cherished. He gave me the consummate feeling that He had my best interests at heart.

We never have moved very quickly, and things of import have always been carried out in real-time, face to face. My submission was one of those things. I didn't just pick up the phone, or type it out on the screen. Of course, I'm not disrespecting those who do, but this is our way of dealing with our relationship. When He's eight hours away, things have to be thought about and weighed and patience IS a virtue.

~anelize

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

Originally posted by catalina_francisco

What fears did you have to work through before being able to offer your submission to another?

Some food for thought...

*Fear of ruining a good friendship or loving relationship if you fail to be able to maintain the D/s relationship that you perceive the dominant wants or needs?

This was a big one for me as I had been on a mission to find the one I was meant for, and for a variety of valid reasons, the most prevalent being fitting into government time schedules to ensure our future together, we had to move quicker than either of us would normally even consider. Though for both of us there was a feeling we had found our soulmate, there were those well meaning friends and family cautioning us both, and I being always my own worst critic, often felt I would not measure up over time and instead fulfill the fears of others. I did not want to disappoint him, or myself.

I wasn't on a mission, as you were, but stumbled upon him almost by accident. But I can identify with my being my own worst critic. I do fear disappointing him, even though he tells me that I can't. I'm a less-than-perfect perfectionist, the standards that I set for myself are the hardest to understand or meet.

*Fear of submission because you never know what might be asked of you in the future? (Fear of the unknown)

This was something we discussed in length before committing to each other, and also during the whole process, and still do. We went through what would be required of me, and review this regularly. The open discussion diminishes a lot of the fears about future requirements to a certain degree, as does the agreement we maintain to never do anything we know will hurt the other in any way.

We also acknowledge mistakes and bad judgments can be a fact of life so have made it a certainty that if either has difficulty with any aspects of the relationship, we work through it together never blaming the other, and never trying to avoid responsibility....just a togetherness that supports what we both want, and respects the relationship we both treasure, and an understanding this commitment is for life....ie. all problems have to be dealt with as there is no option for my release ever.

Tell me, please... Did you have full knowledge of his desires before submitting to him as his slave? It sounds as if you did, and felt comfortable with the knowledge gained. Luckily, we are able to talk through disappoints or mistakes easily. I am his strongest supporter, and he is mine. Neither one of us can stand seeing the other in pain or angst, and we instinctively work toward resolution of feelings and lifting each others spirits.

*Fear of changing yourself to someone else's' idea of what a submissive/slave should be?

This was never a fear for me as firstly I am an extremely strong person who has had my strength tested over and over, so though I can be flexible, I know who I am to the core and made sure any Dominant I was communicating with understood who I was and what I was looking for in a Master, and what I felt they could expect in me as a slave. I had a clear idea of what 'slave' meant to me, and sought someone who shared the same or very similar view. I was also extremely blessed to have a mentor who worked through so many things with me over a 2 year period, and guided me in my explorations in the lifestyle and what I sought, and supported me all the way. He is still a close friend, and Master is happy to have him remain so in our lives.

You are lucky to have known what you wanted in a relationship, and blessed to have been gifted with what sounds like a wonderful mentor before entering into slavery with Francisco.

*Fear of the titles 'submissive' or 'slave.' Are they intimidating?

I suppose it is natural to at times fear the expectations and whether you can always please and deliver all you have promised, but then that is part of the allure. For me 'slave' was the only option I could see for myself, so I felt more excited at the possibility of finding my dream, than intimidated. Partly I was also relieved of a lot of the intimidation as although I experimented with dominants before Master, there was always an understanding it was only experimentation as a submissive as my role of slave was reserved for one only, and if I never found that one, I would remain free to submit only on a temporary basis with those I chose to, and always free to say 'no'.

Yes, not knowing if I can provide what he needs is always a question - no matter what he may say. I'm not sure why I doubt my ability to provide what he needs. Sometimes I think that I read too much on the Internet about how others describe their own submission, and become intimidated. In the back of my mind, I feel that most Dominants have similar needs.

*Fear of submitting online when you need to experience domination in person to truly feel it in your heart? Why do some find it so easy to submit to another that they have never met in person? Is that, in itself, even realistic?

Not for everyone, and certainly not something I envisioned for myself. I met many before Master who I had first become acquainted with online. Master and I did not intend committing before meeting in the flesh, and it was certainly way out of character for both of us, but for both we realised there was something there we had never known before. With the others I met, although I looked forward to the meetings (usually), I had in my mind where they were going to fall short of what I was seeking and was never proven wrong.

With Master, I tried to find something, but there was nothing I could name as even remotely a possible question mark to our future together. That scared me more than anything as I then feared losing the chance at happiness I had only dreamed about before. The night I committed to him, it was not 100% planned for either of us but happened despite our logic, and despite his mother knocking on his door in panic while we talked on the phone..LOL......we waited for the next morning to get that sick feeling of 'what have I done', but neither of us felt anything but supreme joy, which he found himself, the proverbial bachelor, following with the declaration we would be married.

That "what have I done' question does play in the back of my mind. I feel as if I have submitted with my heart and soul already, but still fear taking further steps without having a realistic view of his needs. I know the basics, of course, but I need to know more. Did you discuss long-term goals before submitting to your Master?

*Fear of handing over control of your body and soul when you aren't sure where this may lead down the road?

It is this fear which drives me and gives me the supreme thrill. I trust him to make the right decisions for both of us, and if in doubt at any time I share my thoughts with him as he demands of me. This is all part of guaranteeing he is able to ensure he does not harm me in any way physically, psychologically, or emotionally. As his property, he does not want to harm me irreparably, as that is not going to serve his purposes.

I'm so happy that this works for you. I can't find the thrill in it yet because I have children at home, and feel intimidated by that fact. I am not able to give myself to him 24/7, and may not be able to do so for a long time. I'd love the opportunity to experience giving him complete control for even one day, just to be able to feel what it is truly like.

Catalina, thank you so much for your reply. I truly appreciate your input.

Emme

 

[catalina_francisco]

I wasn't on a mission, as you were, but stumbled upon him almost by accident. But I can identify with my being my own worst critic. I do fear disappointing him, even though he tells me that I can't. I'm a less-than-perfect perfectionist, the standards that I set for myself are the hardest to understand or meet.

Is a pain at times and one Master is trying to get me past. His only requirment in reality is that I try, but for me that is not good enough. Just one more thing to work on!!

Tell me, please... Did you have full knowledge of his desires before submitting to him as his slave? It sounds as if you did, and felt comfortable with the knowledge gained. Luckily, we are able to talk through disappoints or mistakes easily. I am his strongest supporter, and he is mine. Neither one of us can stand seeing the other in pain or angst, and we instinctively work toward resolution of feelings and lifting each others spirits.

Sounds as though your relationship is very much like ours in this way. To us it is the only way it can work while making sure we are both happy. Yes, I did have full knowledge of his desires before submitting, as he did mine before offering to accept me as his. He had a lot more experience than I did, which was also something I wanted. It was not unusual for us to spend 8-12 hours + talking online, interspersed with phone calls, and everyday contact, and surprisingly for some, very little was related to flirting and playing, but down to earth discussions about our lives, our lifestyle likes and dislikes, politics, family, dreams, what makes us tick and wake up each day, our sorrows and fears, and our individual searches for that one that made it all worthwhile.


You are lucky to have known what you wanted in a relationship, and blessed to have been gifted with what sounds like a wonderful mentor before entering into slavery with Francisco.

Yes he was a wonderful mentor and friend and knew when I needed pushing to follow my destiny. I know you mention your tendency to analyse yourself and see it as negative in ways, but to me it is what helps me most some days, and what helped me know myself well enough to know what I wanted and needed. I have always been considred an exceptionally strong person, but I think analysing myself to the extra depths I have in the last few years, has been instrumental on building on this strength and leading me to where I am today.

Yes, not knowing if I can provide what he needs is always a question - no matter what he may say. I'm not sure why I doubt my ability to provide what he needs. Sometimes I think that I read too much on the Internet about how others describe their own submission, and become intimidated. In the back of my mind, I feel that most Dominants have similar needs.

LOL...Oh can I identify with you on this. I am filled with self doubt, even though I have had so much positive feedback from other Dominants before Master, who still hold me in high regard. Poor man not only had to convince me I had found my one, but had to deal with the continual questions I had from D friends wanting to ensure he was 'worthy'. And still I doubt myself and get depressed my best is never going to be good enough.

He also has said I tend to read on the internet in an effort to supplement what I feel is deficiency in lifestyle experience (as in not aclimatised to parties and club scene), and then end up thinking I am not up to scratch. As he points out, what he thinks is what counts, and in his opinion, he feels many on the net are not at the level I am despite more years, or more dominants, or more social experiences. I try to recall the words of others I met on my journey also, and their views of my submission and heart, and have a reality check. I think dominants differ in their needs, though submission seems to be a common core, and I think it seems many submissives tend to doubt their ability to fulfil those needs no matter how often we are presented with the proof otherwise. I hope in time it decreases a little and does not occupy so much of my day.


That "what have I done' question does play in the back of my mind. I feel as if I have submitted with my heart and soul already, but still fear taking further steps without having a realistic view of his needs. I know the basics, of course, but I need to know more. Did you discuss long-term goals before submitting to your Master?

Long term goals were discussed at length and still are, and sometimes they change, but the essence is still the same. I knew and understood enough to feel confident we both sought the same things, though not necessarily as easy as I would hope. Interestingly, I am different to previous submissives he had in some ways, and this difference is not only a challenge, but one of the things he most appreciates and would not change. I too drive him up the wall asking for more clarification, more clarification, more discussion, when sometimes he would just love me to go along with things and let them happen when they happen. I think he is realising this is not going to be something I can do overnight, and I feel he is beginning to understand more, why.

At this point in time I am trying to let him inside my head to understand why I act the way I do, and often when he least expects it, and the way I think it might be overcome with the least amount of pain for him first, and me secondly, so we can both achieve the final goal we seek.


I'm so happy that this works for you. I can't find the thrill in it yet because I have children at home, and feel intimidated by that fact. I am not able to give myself to him 24/7, and may not be able to do so for a long time. I'd love the opportunity to experience giving him complete control for even one day, just to be able to feel what it is truly like.

Yes, children do make a difference. I am fortunate my son is 18 yo soon and from day one I was up front about the type relationship I was entering into. Though he is aware of most of the dynamics, we are careful around him as we do not see it as something he should be confronted with continually. It has caused some frustration since I returned here to live, bringing my son with me. We had previously been spoiled with a few months alone to live as we pleased, so adjustments have been hard at times, but worth it, and our time will come. We also try to get away for the odd weekend or evening so we can really let go.....have found it is really obvious when we turn on the music to mask the sound of spankings or whippings. LOL....and is not near as enjoyable as without restrictons.

Thanks for making such a great thread as it has helped a lot of thought processes and reminded me how fortunate I am. It has also highlighted for me, I am not the only one who has insecurities about my ability to please, and continually pushes myself to do better when being told I am already doing way above fantastic.

Catalina

 

[FungiUg]

Just an aside to the point someone mentioned earlier about "knowing all of your Dominant's desires before submitting."

Sadly, Dominants are human as well. We make mistakes, we get things wrong. We also grow and change -- so desires aren't something that is fixed in concrete for a dominant.

Sometimes, we have problems outlining what our desires and needs are as well.

So between those two, I'd say it's impossible to know all of your prospective dominant's desires before you submit.

Instead, concentrate on building solid lines of communication, where you can talk openly and honestly. This will help you get a good idea of the direction his (or her) desires will take you in. And keep that communication going in the relationship as well! Because his (or her) direction may change!

Also, there's no reason why you can't discuss your fears with your partner or prospective partner. I know in my case I have had to help work through some fear-related issues (as an example, with anal play hurting.)

 

[Ebonyfire]

I personally do not want my subs to try to interpret My desires. That is not their job. Their job is not to anticipate anything, they are to serve and obey.

It is a matter of taking direction, not passive aggressively doing that they think I want.

 

[MissTaken]

Along the way

there have been periods of excitement , peace, self doubt and insecurity (read fear.)

These continue as though I am on a roller coaster, but have levelled out significantly in the last six months. Sometimes, I am a mix of several of these things, sometimes one feeling encompasses me.

As for fears, stumbling blocks and insecurities:

When only exploring and not yet moving to real life. self doubt was my biggest obstacle. I wondered if this was really me, if I could really give myself to someone. Also, misinformation caused great confusion and was a terrible stumbling block. Lit, the Mother thread, in particular, helped me to remain in touch with real info from real folks.

Then, as I approached meeting my first Dominant, I questioned whether I could really do all the things that made my heart flutter and my body react. I wondered if I had just convinced myself in order to please him, or if he had played some sick game with me to bend my mind into thinking I was submissive. These fears were unfounded.

These times paled in comparison to the break up with that Dominant. I asked for release realizing he was not the one for me. Even so, without his presence in my life I felt the carpet had been pulled from beneath me. I had never felt so insecure in all my adult years. A good friend guided me through this period until I felt more confident. Then, I started thinking again, thinking too much and decided to leave the "lifestyle" bfore I had really engaged in it. For several months, I tried to deny my submissive needs and date vanilla guys . I did not want to ever feel so lost again. Soon enough, while intimate with a dear friend, I realized that I needed teh power exchange and all that goes with it.

Throughout that first 10 months or so, I occasionally found that how my vanilla thinking kicked in was an obstacle. Soemtimes, stepping back and thinking, "God! You ARE a freak!" and things of that nature were casue for more confusion, more concern and frustration.

I am getting long winded and will finish this later.

Great thread!

 

[eagleyez]

i find as i become a little more independent and hopefully a little more thoughtful-(and yes-older)

i find the reciprocation of submission and dominance a tantalizing dance-

you may occasionally step on each others toes accidentally-but the music is golden-

purely pleasurable

 

[catalina_francisco]

i find as i become a little more independent and hopefully a little more thoughtful-(and yes-older)

i find the reciprocation of submission and dominance a tantalizing dance-

you may occasionally step on each others toes accidentally-but the music is golden-

purely pleasurable

How beautifully said.

Catalina

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

Re: Re: Submission: Fears, obstacles and stumbling blocks...

What fears did you have to work through before being able to offer your submission to another?

Some food for thought...

*Fear of ruining a good friendship or loving relationship if you fail to be able to maintain the D/s relationship that you perceive the dominant wants or needs?

I was concerned about losing the friendship. I liked Snooze alot and had been through a bad experience. I wasn't sure I was ready.

The readiness part is one of my issues. No matter how much information I have gained, being ready seems to be something that one should 'feel' deeply... I don't know that I could submit to another while still harboring certain fears or uncertainties.

*Fear of submission because you never know what might be asked of you in the future? (Fear of the unknown)

I didn't have big fears about what would be asked of me, however, I didn't at first realise how hard some of it would be.

*Fear of placing your trust in even the most trustworthy hands?

I was terrified to trust. I had been burned and wasn't sure I could ever truly trust again. He had to prove Himself to me repeatedly.

I feel blessed that I do trust him completely, without reservation. That is why I find it odd that I can't let go of certain issues. I feel as if I shouldn't have any internal conflicts if I trust him completely. I hope that makes sense.

*Fear of changing yourself to someone else's' idea of what a submissive/slave should be?

I don't know that fear of changing is really the operative term for me. Its been more like a bit of resistance to changing. I'm stubborn and had spent years becoming who I was.

I can relate to having spent years becoming the person that I am. Many years were a struggle in taking steps toward independence, not wanting to have to rely on anyone other than myself. In some ways, the thought of handing control to another person again seems to be taking a step backwards. I'm not sure how much I can let go of, at this point.

*Fear of the titles 'submissive' or 'slave.' Are they intimidating?

I hated the title of *slave*. To me, at first, it was derogatory. It took some time for me to adjust to being referred to as a slave. It has taken time to adjust to the reality of behaving and thinking in such a submissive fashion.

Thank you for this, I truly appreciate your honesty. I needed to hear that it isn't easy for everyone.

*Fear of finding out you may be fine with D/s in the bedroom, but can't carry it over into real life?

Carrying my submission into everyday life has been a challenge. Changing the way I dress, changing some of my personal grooming habits, and doing things His way have, at times, been tough. Early on, there were times I wanted to just quit because it seemed like I would never adjust.

Another very honest answer. I do harbor fears that I might not be able to follow through. And, of course, running the risk of disappointing both him and myself should that happen.

*Fear of commitment based on your fears?

I had a major fear of committment. I was still carrying some hopes of reconciliation with an old love. I was honest and up front about it and He was willing to take the risk that I would leave. Because I liked and respected Snooze so very much, I was terrified that I would hurt Him. So, until I resolved those feelings, I didn't commit fully. Then later, as my own feelings deepened and evolved, I began to fear that I would be the one hurt. It ties into the fear of trusting. I was afraid He would just decide He no longer wanted me and would release me without warning. I had to get past that fear as well. My friends knew that I loved Him and had truly submitted in my heart before I was ever able to acknowledge it to myself. Thats how scared I was.

I feel as if I have submitted to him with my heart, body and soul... it's my mind that won't allow me to take the next step and enter a true D/s relationship. So you waited until you had resolved those issues in your own heart and mind before fully committing to him. That sounds like something I may have to consider. Not taking on more than I am able at the present time.

*Fear of submitting online when you need to experience domination in person to truly feel it in your heart? Why do some find it so easy to submit to another that they have never met in person? Is that, in itself, even realistic?

This wasn't applicable for me. I am not well suited to a LDR, therefore I conciously chose to only be with someone in real life. I need regular real life contact with my dominant partner in order to be happy.

*Fear of pain, or fear of being pushed to limits that you cannot tolerate ... and having to bow out of the relationship because you feel you can no longer meet the needs of your dominant?

I have occasionally worried that I would have to bow out of the relationship due to the poly issue. Learning to share has been tough for me. That has been the only need/expectation that I have feared not being able to fulfill.

*Fear of handing over control of your body and soul when you aren't sure where this may lead down the road?

Handing over control is a huge step. So, yes, I was a bit afraid at first.

All I can say is that for me, it took a leap of faith. I'm glad I was able to face the fear and go forward. Giving myself to Snooze has been a profoundly rewarding experience. I give thanks every single day that He found me. Its not all easy and like any other relationship, we have challenges. Still, I'm honored to be making this journey at His side.

Leap of faith... It sounds as if it has worked well for the two of you. Fear of handing over control, as I mentioned earlier, is one of my issues. Just curious, though, was there a mental and/or emotional turning point that allowed you to take that leap of faith?

Emme

 

[Desdemona]

Leap of faith... It sounds as if it has worked well for the two of you. Fear of handing over control, as I mentioned earlier, is one of my issues. Just curious, though, was there a mental and/or emotional turning point that allowed you to take that leap of faith?

Emme, for me, it began with acting "as if". I went about my day "as if" I had already completely submitted. I let myself become accustomed to the idea of it. I still rebelled in my mind, but I made a concious decision to act "as if" I had given myself to Him completely.

Yes, there was a major turning point for me. At one point, something was happening in my life that was causing me alot of distress. I kept trying to manage it without any success. Finally, Snooze and I talked about it and with my permission and request, He intervened in the situation. Turning over that situation to Him, letting go of any hopes that I could manage this myself and allowing Snooze to take care of it was a major turning point.

It was as if a weight had been lifted from my shoulders and my blinders were removed. I saw all the little things Snooze had been doing for me, the ways He had trusted me, the leap of faith He had taken. I was amazed at the effort He had put into our relationship and humbled by His patience in the face of my stubbornness, fear and lack of faith. How could I do less? Suddenly, everything sort of came together in my heart and mind. I knew it was going to be ok and I knew that I could trust Him.

I know sometimes I get mushy and gush about Him. But, every single day, He does something different, usually some small thing that touches my heart and shows me how much He cherishes me. My complete submission and utter trust sometimes seems like an incredibly small thing to give in return. I've never experienced such a profound connection.

 

[Soron]

Emmeline, I can only help you with this as a Dominant. But, I hope these answers will help you on your way...

*Fear of ruining a good friendship or loving relationship if you fail to be able to maintain the D/s relationship that you perceive the dominant wants or needs?
Take your mind out of the equation here for a momemt, Emmeline. Listen to your heart. Do YOU think, in all honesty, that a Dominant/submissive realtionship will ruin what you two have? Just as friendships and love can grow to something solid, so too can a D/s relationship. Communicate with your dominant, ask every question that you can think of. Ask your dominant to make you understand what he expects from you and tell him what you need from him. Your mind will always have doubts and fears, it's human nature. Listen to your heart and his on this one, Emmeline. This thread is a good start as well. You aren't the first, nor the last to have fears.


*Fear of submission because you never know what might be asked of you in the future? (Fear of the unknown)
A dominant cannot tell you everything that they may ask of you in the future. But, they should be able to communicate the most important things they want or need from their submissive. The unknown should be something you look forward to, Emmeline. Like being blindfolded during play and not knowing what will come next. I can tell you though, that trusting someone with your body comes a lot easier than with your emotions.

*Fear of placing your trust in even the most trustworthy hands?
I saw that you've been on your own for a while, Emmeline. It's possible you just need a little more time to be able to place that trust in a Dominant. Sooner or later, I think, something will click on your head and you will know, one way or the other if he's trustworthy enough to give yourself to him.

*Fear of changing yourself to someone else's' idea of what a submissive/slave should be?
If this Dominant wants to change you, then they are not for you. A Master wants their submissive just as they are, but with room to grow inside the D/s relationship. They should want the both of you to grow together, in your friendship, in your love and in your respective roles.

*Fear of the titles 'submissive' or 'slave.' Are they intimidating?
It's easy for me to state to you, don't be intimidated by those titles. I can tell you that most Dominants I know cherish the idea that someone they loved would submit themselves of their own free will to them.

*Fear of finding out you may be fine with D/s in the bedroom, but can't carry it over into real life?
Even some Doms feel this way, Emmeline. They don't want that responsibility, outside the bedroom. In fact, most dominants I have come across are like that, and that's okay. What matters between you and your Dom, is that you talk about it and see if it works for both of you, IF you BOTH desire that kind of relationship.

*Fear of commitment based on your fears?
Again, after the two of you have talked at great length about his wants and needs and yours as well, weigh it all out in your mind. Then, listen to your heart, darlin'.

*Fear of submitting online when you need to experience domination in person to truly feel it in your heart? Why do some find it so easy to submit to another that they have never met in person? Is that, in itself, even realistic?
Again, listen to your heart.

*Fear of pain, or fear of being pushed to limits that you cannot tolerate ... and having to bow out of the relationship because you feel you can no longer meet the needs of your dominant?
This you need to find out early on, Emmeline. You both need to discuss what limits you are willing to have pushed, and what his needs are, long term.

*Fear of handing over control of your body and soul when you aren't sure where this may lead down the road?
Communication. What do you and the dominant want out of the relationship..short term and long term.

*Fear that something is wrong with you because you are lovingly told you are ready to give your submission, but can't because you don't feel you are ready? Is it mental block, or is it intuitive thinking that keeps you from taking on more than you are ready to handle?
Only you can answer this one, darlin'.

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

What a great idea for a thread, Emmeline. I'll be back to post when I have enough time to collect my thoughts.

My most sincere apologies for having been away for a few days. My life, as it is, presents obstacles on occasion with finding time for the internet.

Arden, and InnerDarkness, I look forward to hearing from both of you when you are able.