Submission and Masochism are not interchangable terms

[MissTaken]

Would anyone care to comment?

Does anyone have experience with masochistic Dominants or Dominant masochists?

Does anyone think I am talking out my hat?

 

[AvaAdore]

my bf who is mostly dominant is very much a mashochist - sometimes.

 

[WriterDom]

Not me, the thought of clothes pins on my nipples would make me walk away from Fear Factor.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

YAY!! Finally

It took an exceedingly long while for me to get it. The fact that I get off on pain (a real pain slut I am) does not mean that I was ever cut out to be submissive.

The two are not one and the same (at least not for me) and it took a long time for it to click. My boi/grrl set understood it, way before I did.

My boy became very proficient with a crop and flogger under my tutelage (as did my girl) but they both protested LOUDLY when I told them that I was going to release them from service so that I could find someone who could fulfill that need in me.

In their minds, though they did not want to hurt me, it was just an extension of their submissiveness. I wanted it (pain) and they gave it, period. They got nothing from it, except my pleasure. I controlled it, from beginning to end, always.

So no, Miss T obviously, I don't think you are just pulling ideas from a hat...cuz after 4 years I finally understand where my place is...and I know that I get off on pain.

Later

(soon to be Luna)

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Would anyone care to comment?

Does anyone have experience with masochistic Dominants or Dominant masochists?

Does anyone think I am talking out my hat?

Sure.
Yep.
Nope.

 

[bound]

I had a Dom several years ago that was very much a masochist. He'd done some amazingly painful things to himself, worried me a bit. LOL

 

[serijules]

I know a dominant who is VERY much a masochist. He's ordered me to use clothespins on him and bite him and whatnot...was nice to play with someone who is so sure of themselves that they were comfortable doing that.

 

[MissTaken]

I had a Dom several years ago that was very much a masochist. He'd done some amazingly painful things to himself, worried me a bit. LOL

Why?

I am curious.

I do think submissives who are directed to meet the maso needs of their Doms really struggle. Those that I know, feel very uncomfortable and may not even administer enough pain to satisfy the dominant.

Just my random thought.

 

[MissTaken]

Re: YAY!! Finally

It took an exceedingly long while for me to get it. The fact that I get off on pain (a real pain slut I am) does not mean that I was ever cut out to be submissive.

The two are not one and the same (at least not for me) and it took a long time for it to click. My boi/grrl set understood it, way before I did.

My boy became very proficient with a crop and flogger under my tutelage (as did my girl) but they both protested LOUDLY when I told them that I was going to release them from service so that I could find someone who could fulfill that need in me.

In their minds, though they did not want to hurt me, it was just an extension of their submissiveness. I wanted it (pain) and they gave it, period. They got nothing from it, except my pleasure. I controlled it, from beginning to end, always.

So no, Miss T obviously, I don't think you are just pulling ideas from a hat...cuz after 4 years I finally understand where my place is...and I know that I get off on pain.

Later

(soon to be Luna)

Wonderful post, Luna and I am so happy for you that you have found your comfort zone, in a manner of speaking.

It was the recent postings on the Switch thread that made me want to open this topic up for discussion.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Does anyone think I am talking out my hat?

mhm.

get out of here with that hair splitting. I never met a non-masochistic sub or a non-submissive masochist. Not once you cracked the bullshit shell and exposed the living girlmeat within.

maybe guys are different.

 

[Netzach]

My guy gets it, he just has a hard time actually doing it.

Really hard spankings are not in his repetoire let alone some of my more vigorous masochistic likes.

That's ok. Practise is fun.

 

[Netzach]

Re: Re: Submission and Masochism are not interchangable terms

mhm.

get out of here with that hair splitting. I never met a non-masochistic sub or a non-submissive masochist. Not once you cracked the bullshit shell and exposed the living girlmeat within.

maybe guys are different.

Irony detector's going off. If it's a false alarm explain to me the love of pasttimes like boxing, wrestling, bar fights and long distance running among otherwise control freaky alpha males....scrapes and scares and pain in all of these seem to grant bragging rights, not shame.

 

[SubmissiveDove5]

I'm not sure, but I think my Master is a masochist. He has eight tats, four peircings and two of them are prince alberts. He says he likes needles too.

 

[bound]

Why?

I am curious.

I do think submissives who are directed to meet the maso needs of their Doms really struggle. Those that I know, feel very uncomfortable and may not even administer enough pain to satisfy the dominant.

Just my random thought.

He did some pretty brutal things to himself, definitely nothing i'd want done to me... I didn't get a chance to SEE those things before we'd been together for a bit, and once i did i didn't end it but it was worrisome. Obviously it was an interest of his (very heavy piercing/scarification) and if i had a choice in the matter, that wasn't something i'd wish for myself.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I had this thought today and felt I should share it here:

What is it that makes pain so attractive to some Dominants? I mean (for me) I have a real problem causing physical hurt to my own submissives (when I have them) yet I relish the feel of leather against my own flesh.

Is it impossible for someone who gets off on pain to truly give it? Or is it only my own wiring that makes it problematic? I do know that on days when I have actually used a very physical punishment on past pets, I was jealous of the sensation they were feeling. Does that just mean I am greedy??

It's not even an issue of control. But in some respects it puts me in mind of someone who wants everything to revolve around themselves...like I want all of it: the control, the Dominance, the pain..and I don't want to share any of that with anyone else!! Not even those I care for.

Hmmm...anyone have any ideas how these things work themselves out??

(almost) Luna

 

[catalina_francisco]

Is it impossible for someone who gets off on pain to truly give it? Or is it only my own wiring that makes it problematic? I do know that on days when I have actually used a very physical punishment on past pets, I was jealous of the sensation they were feeling. Does that just mean I am greedy??



(almost) Luna

I think as in all things, it is different for everyone in their own individual way, but certainly possible for a painslut who thrives on receiving to deal out pain to the same extent. I also think there would likely be times when jealousy comes into it...seems natural when it is a need you have yourself, but may not be able to have answered right at that moment but watch as another enjoys that which you long for yourself, and at your own hands. Not necessarily greedy, just human nature and need.

Catalina

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I think as in all things, it is different for everyone in their own individual way, but certainly possible for a painslut who thrives on receiving to deal out pain to the same extent. I also think there would likely be times when jealousy comes into it...seems natural when it is a need you have yourself, but may not be able to have answered right at that moment but watch as another enjoys that which you long for yourself, and at your own hands. Not necessarily greedy, just human nature and need.

Catalina

As always Catalina, your thoughts make a lot of sense. Finding a niche is difficult when two opposing things leave you feeling murky. Knowing who and what I am is only the first step on a journey I thought I would never have to make, again. (luckily for me, I can come here and throw tons of questions around when I get really lost).

 

[rosco rathbone]

Re: Re: Re: Submission and Masochism are not interchangable terms

Irony detector's going off. If it's a false alarm explain to me the love of pasttimes like boxing, wrestling, bar fights and long distance running among otherwise control freaky alpha males....scrapes and scares and pain in all of these seem to grant bragging rights, not shame.

I believe that you are misunderstanding the value of "pain" in these pursuits; at least for the "dom" types.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Alpha Male revisited

... explain to me the love of pasttimes like boxing, wrestling, bar fights and long distance running among otherwise control freaky alpha males....scrapes and scares and pain in all of these seem to grant bragging rights, not shame.

Seems a control issue perhaps? "i want pain, but i want it my damn way?"

• Boxing ... i forgot to bring my gun.
• Wrestling ... i forgot to bring my knife.
• Bar fight ... i opened my fucking mouth at the wrong time.
• Long distance running ... the getaway car stalled/ran out of gas/got misplaced.

Personally, i don't mind watching boxing, but that's an admission of bloodlust. i can admire boxing/wrestling for the skill involved, but in real life, to include the bar fight,

• keep a low profile and you don't have to exhibit superior skills.
• talk your way out of something before engaging physically if at all possible.
• if no other avenue exists, end it quickly, violently, and with such intensity no retaliation is possible.

i strongly suspect the control freaky alpha male in question never got past Competition 101 in high school.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

I had this thought today and felt I should share it here:

What is it that makes pain so attractive to some Dominants? I mean (for me) I have a real problem causing physical hurt to my own submissives (when I have them) yet I relish the feel of leather against my own flesh.

Is it impossible for someone who gets off on pain to truly give it? Or is it only my own wiring that makes it problematic? I do know that on days when I have actually used a very physical punishment on past pets, I was jealous of the sensation they were feeling.

Maybe if you enjoy it (whether they do or not) it just doesn't feel like punishment. (Especially if it's something you're missing, or that they don't do very well.) I mean if I get mad at something, or deem them worthy of serious punishment, I'm just not gonna drown them in chocolate.
If you are trying to punish them, maybe something like depriving them of your presence, or taking away priviledges or something, would work just as powerfully but feel more like actually punishment?

Does that just mean I am greedy??

It's not even an issue of control. But in some respects it puts me in mind of someone who wants everything to revolve around themselves...like I want all of it: the control, the Dominance, the pain..and I don't want to share any of that with anyone else!! Not even those I care for.

Hmmm...anyone have any ideas how these things work themselves out??

(almost) Luna

Well, why the hell shouldn't everything revolve around me dammit! Oh, was this post about you?

Some people Like giving. You could pull and suck every last bit from them, the control the dominance the pain... and they'll just heave a sigh and say Ahhhhh! In fact, Some of us -- not naming any Names here, as this post is All about You -- even feel forlorn and lonely if no demands are being made, rather than, say, as if they are having a mature calm adult parallel, possibly even British, relationship.

And, btw, oooh, I am so glad that the correctness and qualifier police have completely given up on me. Otherwise, the recent dubious reference to the British, would not otherwise go overlooked. They've washed their hands of me -- haha! Oops. Back to you, Pluna.

YOU, my dear, are being overscrupulous about your lack of scruples. Haven't you read the latest press release? Doms are Supposed to be greeedy.

In fact, if you persist in such Unseemly consideration for the possible feelings of others, you may murk things up for us all even further! And We Can't Have That!

 

[Netzach]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Submission and Masochism are not interchangable terms

I believe that you are misunderstanding the value of "pain" in these pursuits; at least for the "dom" types.

What is it?

I'd say it's to feel tough and feel like you proved yourself and be proud you did it.

Well, that's how masochism functions for me. Pain doesn't make me wet.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

It doesn't seem unlikely to me that for some 'painslut alpha doms' the rush is the same adrenaline and those same endorphins many subbie painsluts appreciate oh so much.


(edited to add appropriate politically correct qualifier 'some.')

 

[catalina_francisco]

It doesn't seem unlikely to me that for some 'painslut alpha doms' the rush is the same adrenaline and those same endorphins many subbie painsluts appreciate oh so much.


(edited to add appropriate politically correct qualifier 'some.')

The 'some' is noted, but I am not sure the adreneline and endorphins are the same for both groups, and of course that differs on an individual basis. They seem to come from different places, though having an appreciation of both spheres of existence can give for some an extended notion as to what the other is experiencing, seeking, needing, and also can act as a symbiotic blend of endorphins and adrenaline rush which remain separate, but also need each other to create that perfect moment. Either way, it is an ineresting journey of discovery.

Catalina

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Maybe if you enjoy it (whether they do or not) it just doesn't feel like punishment. (Especially if it's something you're missing, or that they don't do very well.) I mean if I get mad at something, or deem them worthy of serious punishment, I'm just not gonna drown them in chocolate.
If you are trying to punish them, maybe something like depriving them of your presence, or taking away priviledges or something, would work just as powerfully but feel more like actually punishment?

I see your point, m'dear. My last set (which I just released recently) did not enjoy pain in the least. The only way I could be sure they got what I wanted them to get, at times, was to give them the very same thing I had need of.

After all, punishement is supposed to teach them something..(usually not to piss off Mama Wolf) and depriving them of my presence would have just been another pnishment I suffered with them!!!

Well, why the hell shouldn't everything revolve around me dammit! Oh, was this post about you?

Some people Like giving. You could pull and suck every last bit from them, the control the dominance the pain... and they'll just heave a sigh and say Ahhhhh! In fact, Some of us -- not naming any Names here, as this post is All about You -- even feel forlorn and lonely if no demands are being made, rather than, say, as if they are having a mature calm adult parallel, possibly even British, relationship.

And, btw, oooh, I am so glad that the correctness and qualifier police have completely given up on me. Otherwise, the recent dubious reference to the British, would not otherwise go overlooked. They've washed their hands of me -- haha! Oops. Back to you, Pluna.

YOU, my dear, are being overscrupulous about your lack of scruples. Haven't you read the latest press release? Doms are Supposed to be greeedy.

In fact, if you persist in such Unseemly consideration for the possible feelings of others, you may murk things up for us all even further! And We Can't Have That!

Maybe I am erring on the side of cautious behavior. I know that in most cases, I never let the game JUST be about me. (In the case of my last petlings, especially.) The fact that pain feels like it should be only about me, has me a little off, these days.

I can not compare my own Dominance to others..what works for them is never gonna work for me, I have been this way far too long!!! However, it is NICE (and needful) to be reminded that a certain level of greediness is sometimes what is really needed for a certain Miss. (That would be me!!)

So, PS, your point have been duly noted and written down..(in my special lit notebook) that way when I need some appropriate cheering I can look at these words....

*Well, why the hell shouldn't everything revolve around me dammit! Oh, was this post about you?*

Thanks for the smile and the food for thought...

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

The 'some' is noted, but I am not sure the adreneline and endorphins are the same for both groups, and of course that differs on an individual basis. They seem to come from different places, though having an appreciation of both spheres of existence can give for some an extended notion as to what the other is experiencing, seeking, needing, and also can act as a symbiotic blend of endorphins and adrenaline rush which remain separate, but also need each other to create that perfect moment. Either way, it is an ineresting journey of discovery.

Catalina

Well stated Catalina. The thing that gets me there is that particular mixture of pain and Dominance. It puts me in orbit to tell a pet *This is how I want it..do not vary the stroke and you had better use full power. Anything less will earn my ire*

When that particular moment has been crested it's like rain against my skin...I am warm and drowning..yet aware enough to know that afterwards my pet is going to need some praise for helping me reach that place.

It is a lovely feeling when I can get it..the point though is sometimes I don't get it for months. (and with no petlings in the wings at the moment, it will be even longer, I am sure, before I can feel that particular blend of need and desire being met).

The journey is interesting, though...and I can not wait to begin it anew.