Sub Frenzy, Continued

[MellowTone]

Good morning everyone I hope you all slept well and awoke refreshed! I felt this morning, for the first time in two days, a brief return to my "usual" frame of mind. I actually slept terribly because I was so distracted/turned on/excited, so maybe the exhaustion got to me. I finally slept for about an hour around 6. When I woke up, it was back! I confess I was relieved. I love feeling this way, even if it does render me somewhat useless in normal society. I want it to last a little while longer.

Posting here is part of the package, by the way, so thank you for patiently listening to the gushing of a newbie ('specially you, rosco). One thing I'd like to ask is. . . What are some productive lines of thought for me to pursue right now? Anything you all wish you had figured out sooner?

TIA, and have a great day!

 

[MellowTone]

Sweet mercy, I think it's over. What a whirlwind week of self discovery, desires, pleasure, and. . . well, adjustment. I have to thank those of you who have answered my questions here and sent me PMs for being there for a fairly lost new sub - you all made this way easier, safer, and less annoying for those who know me in the real world than it would have been if I hadn't found this forum.

In case you're interested, I regained the ability to think rationally a couple of days ago First in small doses, then for longer periods, and now I have PRETTY decent self control again. (This is still a change from my previous norm, when I had the self control of, say, a Jedi.) I'm pleased to report, however, that the insatiable sub in me is still pretty easily accessible. The right look from my Dom, or the right story, or even the right post in this forum, and I'm pulled back in to my world of want. He tied me up wih rope yesterday - my first time! - and that was amazing. Thank you, boy scouts of America, for teaching such useful knots! Also thanks to Two Knotty Boys.

ANYWAY, enough of my shameless blogging when I should be discussing. For anyone who feels like answering a new girl's questions, here are some that I have:

1) When it comes to limits - physical or otherwise - did you always know what yours were? Did they change over time? I have been surprised to realize I'm not sure where all of my boundaries are. It's kind of exciting, because we can have so much fun finding them, but I can also see how that's a potentially dangerous situation for me. Anybody have advice?

2) Is it common for new subs to be a little bratty? I find that I'm a little bratty. What I mean by that is sometimes when I'm with my Dom, I push him. I start with tiny signs of irreverence and slowly ramp it up until he does something about it. I'm pretty sure it comes from craving limits and discipline. I want SO MUCH for him to put me in my place that I keep tip-toeing out of it. If consequences never come, I get unhappy.

Thanks for reading, and be well!

 

[Stella_Omega]

You have been a sterling addition to this forum, IMO Just sating.

Answers to your questions, for me I have very strong ebb and flow in my limits both physically and mentally, both as a top and bottom.

The second question is maybe not for me to answer. But it might be something to talk to your Dom about, see what it looks like from the other side. Depending on what his experience has been before you, he may think you're being simply adorable, and be enjoying your display instead of reading your need for discipline. You won't know untill you guys discuss.

 

[CutieMouse]

1) When it comes to limits - physical or otherwise - did you always know what yours were? Did they change over time? I have been surprised to realize I'm not sure where all of my boundaries are. It's kind of exciting, because we can have so much fun finding them, but I can also see how that's a potentially dangerous situation for me. Anybody have advice?

Eh... Some things are hard limits; end of story. For example, my main hard limit is no drama.

Sometimes you think XYZ will be the coolest.thing.evar! Only to discover upon doing it, that not only does XYZ not do anything for you, it's actually somewhat repulsive. Which is as good a reason as any to make it a hard limit.

And sometimes life creates limits for you. There have been times when I'm [temporarily] taken something off the table due to other issues in my life; there are times I've made a change of request (re: a previous soft or hard limit) due to other issues in my life.

2) Is it common for new subs to be a little bratty? I find that I'm a little bratty. What I mean by that is sometimes when I'm with my Dom, I push him. I start with tiny signs of irreverence and slowly ramp it up until he does something about it. I'm pretty sure it comes from craving limits and discipline. I want SO MUCH for him to put me in my place that I keep tip-toeing out of it. If consequences never come, I get unhappy.

Thanks for reading, and be well!

Probably, but it's a huge (personal) pet peeve. I know some relationships revolve around bratting, or Smart Ass Massochists [SAMs], etc, but the attitude/behavior tends to remind me of manipulative five year olds throwing tantrums to get their way. Every time I see adults bratting I end up thinking one of two things -

1) Well that submissive sure has things under control...
or
2) What a weak dominant...

That doesn't mean I think all submissives should be perfect models of obedience, or mindless robotic doormats; I'm just opinionated about people acting their age (yes I know that flies in the face of age-play; I'm talking about bratty attitudes, not age-play).

[rhetorical question time]

If you suspect you need more structure, why are you bratting to get it? Why not just explain you're itching for a little more structure? If you want to submit to your partner, why do you feel a desire to be "put in your place"? If you've already agreed to submit, you're in your place. If the ebb and flow of how y'all interact needs tweaking, tweak it; don't do the "but he/she should just knooooooooooowwww!" schtick.

What are you getting out of it? Is it respectful of the dynamic you're trying to build, to fight it? Is it respectful of the energy and spirit he offers your submission, to manipulate him into a dominant response? Is it respectful of who you are (or want to be) to constantly measure your submission by his response, instead of your own actions?

[/rhetorical question time]

Like I said, some people get off on the brat/SAM thing, and I suspect it's a pretty common meme early on [in sorting out power dynamics]. The only way to know if your D-type is good with it, is to ask.

 

[FireKrystals]

I agree with cutie. I am glad your back to normal. Told you it would happen over time ^_^. I think you need to talk to your Dom and explain you want more structure and rules. Tell him what you need so he can provide it. Also, I agree when you agreed to be his sub, you were choosing your place. Now is the get to know each other better phase. It might be he is being lenient with you since this is your first experience has a sub. If your ready for the next level, ask for it. Also about the limits, I find my limits like myself have changed with age. I use to be total opposed to oral, it was a hard limit, now I don't find it so bad and do it every once in a while. Once spanking was out on the rare occasions I am the sub (mainly DOM), now I do not mind getting hit with the riding crop as long as it is under my armpits basically torso area. No ass still, but I can now tolerate spanking occasionally. Limits are like you,they change from your experiences, and growing up. Just be open to adjustment and you'll be fine.Always remember your safe word and you'll be fine.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Every time I see adults bratting I end up thinking one of two things -

1) Well that submissive sure has things under control...
or
2) What a weak dominant...

I might think; "Wow those two are having a lot of fun with each other!"

Or; "Hmm, I wonder who really IS the dominant?"

Or; "Hahahe-- Mr. Domly Dom was talking SOOOOO big at the munch last week. Now we see that he can't put his money where his mouth is." (But that presupposes that I've run into him and his manly testicles already)

How you do things is how you do 'em. Not how other people do 'em.

 

[KoPilot]

I might think; "Wow those two are having a lot of fun with each other!"

Or; "Hmm, I wonder who really IS the dominant?"

Or; "Hahahe-- Mr. Domly Dom was talking SOOOOO big at the munch last week. Now we see that he can't put his money where his mouth is." (But that presupposes that I've run into him and his manly testicles already)

How you do things is how you do 'em. Not how other people do 'em.

Or if I bothered to find myself in the company of anyone else who craved the retaliation/lashing out sort of thing from the D, I'd be thinking "Oh hoh man, someone is gonna get it when they get home!"

SAMing is just a different kind of masochism for me. A different kind of sensation play. It also goes hand-in-hand with humiliation, I find. ymmv

 

[MellowTone]

You have been a sterling addition to this forum, IMO Just sating.

Why Miss Stella, I do believe you're going to make me blush! It is a pleasure to be here. I'm very happy to feel welcome.

Thanks to all thee of you for your advice/wisdom. I actually talked to my Dom first about the bratting issue I do prefer to confide in him before hitting the internet in most cases! I told him frankly that I was pushing him because I craved discipline and consequences. He had sort of a mixed response - definitely some of what you guys said ("You're not the one who gets to choose when I discipline you, and it's not your place to try.") but also some of "I am still adjusting to you being so submissive, and I don't want to be too strict right away." (If you haven't already surmised, he and I had an existing relationship before my awakening/sub-frenzy, so there are some patterns from that time that have been SHATTERED in the past few days, and the dust is still settling.) The upshot of our conversation was basically that we're still feeling our way - both of us - and that that's ok and we can be patient with each other.

That leads me to something that I'm sure you all know already, but that was a very nice surprise for me: The communication and feedback in this D/s relationship is more honest and supportive than pretty much anything else I have experienced. I don't dick around trying to make my feelings "obvious," because I KNOW he wants me to just tell him. I tried not to do that in previous relationships anyway, but this is on a whole new level. It's really amazing and beautiful to be able to be so honest with someone, and to trust like this. It's something I kind of doubt my friends would understand, which is too bad. I wish everyone could feel this way at some point.

 

[CutieMouse]

I dunno, I suspect there are relationships out there with that level of openness, without it being a D/s thing... but it is pretty sweet. Like the other night I pointed something out, and it resulted in this (brief) interesting conversation about societal conditioning, pride, and lust. Fascinating.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Or if I bothered to find myself in the company of anyone else who craved the retaliation/lashing out sort of thing from the D, I'd be thinking "Oh hoh man, someone is gonna get it when they get home!"

SAMing is just a different kind of masochism for me. A different kind of sensation play. It also goes hand-in-hand with humiliation, I find. ymmv

YES-- Finding yourself on the floor all of a sudden after you thought you were so smart...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Why Miss Stella, I do believe you're going to make me blush! It is a pleasure to be here. I'm very happy to feel welcome.

Thanks to all thee of you for your advice/wisdom. I actually talked to my Dom first about the bratting issue I do prefer to confide in him before hitting the internet in most cases! I told him frankly that I was pushing him because I craved discipline and consequences. He had sort of a mixed response - definitely some of what you guys said ("You're not the one who gets to choose when I discipline you, and it's not your place to try.") but also some of "I am still adjusting to you being so submissive, and I don't want to be too strict right away." (If you haven't already surmised, he and I had an existing relationship before my awakening/sub-frenzy, so there are some patterns from that time that have been SHATTERED in the past few days, and the dust is still settling.) The upshot of our conversation was basically that we're still feeling our way - both of us - and that that's ok and we can be patient with each other.

That leads me to something that I'm sure you all know already, but that was a very nice surprise for me: The communication and feedback in this D/s relationship is more honest and supportive than pretty much anything else I have experienced. I don't dick around trying to make my feelings "obvious," because I KNOW he wants me to just tell him. I tried not to do that in previous relationships anyway, but this is on a whole new level. It's really amazing and beautiful to be able to be so honest with someone, and to trust like this. It's something I kind of doubt my friends would understand, which is too bad. I wish everyone could feel this way at some point.

I think... sometimes the couple has something like a sort of a goal to work towards all of a sudden. (notice all of my hem-ing and haw-ing there)

Like, if you guys were going to build a house or train a show horse or-- I dunno. That would be worth a lot of communication. For most heteronormatives, sex isn't something to work on, it's some dudes reward for letting some woman marry him. No need for communication when all you're doing is sticking your dick in until it's time to take it back out.

 

[KoPilot]

YES-- Finding yourself on the floor all of a sudden after you thought you were so smart...

Reveling in your thwarted rebellion is really Orwellian shit, but my name's Fred if it isn't seriously intense stuff if you know the whys and wherefores of what it means for your dynamic.

OP, what are you doing when you brat? Just curious, as people that actually have this as part of their relationship seem to be extremely rare here. And extremely looked down upon.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Reveling in your thwarted rebellion is really Orwellian shit, but my name's Fred if it isn't seriously intense stuff if you know the whys and wherefores of what it means for your dynamic.

OP, what are you doing when you brat? Just curious, as people that actually have this as part of their relationship seem to be extremely rare here. And extremely looked down upon.

We are beginning to tolerate more things around here these days.

As long as it's written legibly.


Don't worry about downlookers. Figure out what you are doing, for you and him.

 

[midwestyankee]

We are beginning to tolerate more things around here these days.

As long as it's written legibly.


Don't worry about downlookers. Figure out what you are doing, for you and him.

Not to pick at a jumping nit, but it's really freaking hard to be illegible in a browser-produced font. Unintelligible seems to be much more likely.

 

[MellowTone]

"Like, if you guys were going to build a house or train a show horse or-- I dunno. That would be worth a lot of communication. For most heteronormatives, sex isn't something to work on, it's some dudes reward for letting some woman marry him. No need for communication when all you're doing is sticking your dick in until it's time to take it back out."

Well said. I so feel this. And it is awesome to NOT be in the heteronormative boat, like walking out into the sun for the first time.

"OP, what are you doing when you brat? Just curious, as people that actually have this as part of their relationship seem to be extremely rare here. And extremely looked down upon."

Well, it remains to be seen whether my batting really becomes a permanent dynamic, or if it's just a newbie thing/something that goes away when we refine our interactions a little more. BUT, to sate your curiosity, this is the kind of thing I do: I'll start out with something I really doubt he'll notice, like saying something sweet but not addressing him properly as Sir (or whatever name suits the moment). Then maybe I step it up to cutting him off/interrupting him, but with something that's cute or that he likes. Then maybe I briefly deny him something he wants, like he leans down to kiss me and I look away. Or I chatter on and tease him about something until he says "shut up," and I say "Make me!" Yes, it is embarrassing to write this out. No, it's not something I particularly like! I think it will go away by itself as he gets more comfortable putting me in my place.


"As long as it's written legibly.

Don't worry about downlookers. Figure out what you are doing, for you and him."

I love a community that values decent writing. Also appreciate the positivity

 

[KoPilot]

Yeah for most people it's a phase or if it's chronic it's something they do because they don't actually know how to submit or are insecure and feel they need to be dominated in exactly this certain way they've always read about in the bodice rippers.

Haha one of my favorite things is when he relinquishes control of the scene or whatever and basically does a "fine, have it your way" and then I don't actually know what to do and come crawling back to his smug ass. It's like that Joker line "I'm a dog chasing cars; I wouldn't know what to do if I caught one!"

 

[Netzach]

It's funny. Different communities have different vibes. I think not-bratting is sometimes seen as weak in mine, and the majority of relationships are based on tension around submission or "slutting it up" in some way. Actual no-questions-asked obedience is always suspect, which gets kind of old if you actually appreciate that.

There are different ways to play with and engage your D. As long as he/she/it finds them appealing you're in luck. I find that games are very much a question of known intent and context. M can say shit to me that no-one else can because the intent is known.

 

[Ropebunny]

OP, what are you doing when you brat? Just curious, as people that actually have this as part of their relationship seem to be extremely rare here. And extremely looked down upon.

Eek! The brat dynamic is definately a very enjoyable part of our relationship for both of us. I think it's a bit sad that it is looked down upon when viewing other people's relationships. We all practise the kind of kink that works for us and gets us off and I think that if brattiness works for both PYL and pyl then it is a perfectly legitimate type of play.

In saying that, I identify as a bottom (as opposed to sub) so my PYL is under no impression that I will always willingly submit to him. I can see how brattiness could be undesirable within dom/sub relationship and I would question one how submissive one really is if they feel the need to push or manipulate their dom into constantly reaffirming their dominance.

I guess what I'm trying to say to OP is that I think being a brat can work if it is mutually enjoyable. Like you've said, maybe the desire to do it will go away as you settle into a new dynamic. But if it doesn't I wouldn't fret too much about fitting the submissive sub ideal. If both of you get off on it, why push yourself into changing? Here's an awesome quote from Stella in another thread,

"Sexuality is not a competitive sport. There is no need to measure yourself against anyone else. In fact-- don't do that because you'll lose. There is always someone who has gone to extremes you never wanted to know about".

If you think you will feel fulfilled being the ideal submissive then go for it, but what you have now isn't nessesarily something that needs to be changed if you are both having fun.

Just my two cents

 

[Brunne]

Well, it remains to be seen whether my batting really becomes a permanent dynamic, or if it's just a newbie thing/something that goes away when we refine our interactions a little more. BUT, to sate your curiosity, this is the kind of thing I do: I'll start out with something I really doubt he'll notice, like saying something sweet but not addressing him properly as Sir (or whatever name suits the moment). Then maybe I step it up to cutting him off/interrupting him, but with something that's cute or that he likes. Then maybe I briefly deny him something he wants, like he leans down to kiss me and I look away. Or I chatter on and tease him about something until he says "shut up," and I say "Make me!" Yes, it is embarrassing to write this out. No, it's not something I particularly like! I think it will go away by itself as he gets more comfortable putting me in my place.

As others have probably said, the dynamic between you will be (or at least should be) just that...dynamic. Flexible to change as needed. At the moment you may be doing this so-called 'brattish' behaviour for many different reasons, but especially in a new relationship it can often perform an important function.

You so often hear the 'in training' thing applied to a submissive in a new relationship, but your Dom is on a learning curve too. By making your submissive 'challenge', you're consciously or subconsciously testing to see if he is picking up on the small things. If he's not picking up on the small things (which are actually the most important ones!), that's actually a learning need on his part. And that's why it escalates until he finally notices you waving some big-ass 'Brat' flag and does something about it. It is important that he notices.

I'm in no way saying that a submissive isn't 100% responsible for their behaviour in the relationship and I am all for the submissive role being one of a mature, responsible adult. But the testing/challenging can serve a purpose. Talking to him about it is obviously even better, but I have a hunch that it's a natural/instinctive function in many D/s relationships and it isn't entirely to be frowned upon.

 

[KoPilot]

I'm in no way saying that a submissive isn't 100% responsible for their behaviour in the relationship and I am all for the submissive role being one of a mature, responsible adult. But the testing/challenging can serve a purpose. Talking to him about it is obviously even better, but I have a hunch that it's a natural/instinctive function in many D/s relationships and it isn't entirely to be frowned upon.

Yeah it's also a way of "making learning fun!", because sure, sitting down and having A Talk about needs and wants and directions is good, it honestly isn't always best-- S and I seem to use it as a learning experience as well. Field testing, if you will. We're also building up his muscle memory in a sense, like being able to draw that perfect line or boil the perfect egg without thinking about it. We'd both love to eventually reach that point where he can deliver the perfect blow (to ass, ego, etc) without having to go through all the conscious rigmarole every single time.

Dunno, I might be talking out of my ass, but that's sure what it feels like sometimes.

 

[Brunne]

Yeah it's also a way of "making learning fun!", because sure, sitting down and having A Talk about needs and wants and directions is good, it honestly isn't always best-- S and I seem to use it as a learning experience as well. Field testing, if you will. We're also building up his muscle memory in a sense, like being able to draw that perfect line or boil the perfect egg without thinking about it. We'd both love to eventually reach that point where he can deliver the perfect blow (to ass, ego, etc) without having to go through all the conscious rigmarole every single time.

Dunno, I might be talking out of my ass, but that's sure what it feels like sometimes.

It's a sort of fine-tuning in the end, isn't it. I've certainly gotten better over the years at not being so consciously manipulative, but now that he's accepted that it just goes with the territory, it's sort of become a running joke between us. He knows what all my back-to-front questions actually mean now, and when I ask him something about him that I'm really asking for myself (as in, I ask him if he's hungry when it's me that wants to eat!) he calls me on it, and we both have a good laugh. Wow...we are such old married people now.

 

[eastern sun]

We'd both love to eventually reach that point where he can deliver the perfect blow (to ass, ego, etc) without having to go through all the conscious rigmarole every single time.

It's possible. And the longer you stay together, the more likely it becomes.

Though any time you're stretching boundaries, you have to talk. It comes with the new territory.

 

[KoPilot]

It's possible. And the longer you stay together, the more likely it becomes.

Though any time you're stretching boundaries, you have to talk. It comes with the new territory.

Oh yeah, we talk a lot (for 49 weeks out of the year that's all we can do)-- but without actually going out and putting the feels to practice, that's all it is. And it takes practice, whether you're a natural D or not. shruggles