Strength

[chy_girl]

A few weeks ago a comment was made by one of the locals and I've been mulling it over since. The questions that keeps coming up are specifically about strength in a BDSM dynamic. I've had a few "ah-ha!" moments and concepts are slowly solidifying in my brain, but I'm curious about the opinions and perspectives of people here.

What does strength in TPE or PYL/pyl relationship really look like? What makes a strong PYL? What makes a strong pyl? Are the very basics for that kind of strength something that can be learned, or is it innate?

So, what say you?

 

[Ravenwind]

IMHO, true strength is when one is able to strengthen the other. When the pyl and PYL know one another so well, that they are able to act as one being, with one being the mind, the other as the body. The pyl no longer needs discipline, as they know the mind of the PYL so well, that there is never a question about what needs to be done; the PYL never needs to train, as the pyl enacts the will of the PYL so well, that it is as flawless as the PYL himself would have done it.

It takes a desire to change, and to be changed, on both parts. It requires open communication, for how can a pyl be strong, if they do not know the PYL's mind, and how can the PYL be strong, if they do not know the pyl's mind? Both must have the desire to serve, and to be served, as the PYL serves by being dominant, and the pyl is being served by the PYL's dominance. Both must be patient with one another, for how can the pyl learn without the PYL taking the time to teach, and how can the PYL be pleased, if the pyl does not take the time to do exactly what is desired of them? Both need to find joy in what they do, and in what the other does, so that the good qualities in the other might be made stronger by their own actions, and the bad will cease and be forgotten. Just as the pyl sacrifices their will, for the sake of pleasing their PYL, the PYL sacrifices their will for the sake of protecting their pyl.

Each make up for what the other lacks, and each becomes an extension of the other. Each gives 110% for the sake of the other... whatever they do, it is not about "me", but rather, about "you": "making you a better pyl"/"pleasing my PYL". In doing so, the D/s dynamic becomes a null point, as they become equals with different strengths... not just equals, but, as one.

With some, it is innate, but with others, it can be learned... the moment you discover that in pleasing the other, you yourself are pleased, regardless of being PYL or pyl, you have learned it.

This, to me, is true strength... when an outsider no longer sees a PYL and a pyl, but rather, see one mind working in two separate bodies.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think strength can mean a variety of things, depending on the aspects being discussed. For a pyl it can be about being capable of taking the ups and downs of a D/s or TPE relationship and build on them...for a PYL on the same topic it can be about being able to keep their cool when necessary, have the patience to guide and dominate, and actually lead the relationship. On a broad aspect it can be about those within a relationship being able to withstand pressures from outside to conform to someone elses idea of what it should be like, and basically not need the approval of others to do what makes those within the relationship happy. These are just 2 ways of looking at strength, there are many, and many more when you take into account individual situations.

Catalina

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

A few weeks ago a comment was made by one of the locals and I've been mulling it over since. The questions that keeps coming up are specifically about strength in a BDSM dynamic. I've had a few "ah-ha!" moments and concepts are slowly solidifying in my brain, but I'm curious about the opinions and perspectives of people here.

What does strength in TPE or PYL/pyl relationship really look like? What makes a strong PYL? What makes a strong pyl? Are the very basics for that kind of strength something that can be learned, or is it innate?

So, what say you?

I think for me, strength is innate, but I had to learn that I had it and how to use it.

To me, it means strength to accept myself, to open myself to another person, to trust them, to be able to handle what that kind of intimacy brings. I have to be strong to weather the ups and downs, and to do what's wanted/needed/expected of me, to take care of someone else and put them first.

It means Mr has to be strong, to deal with me and my crazy. To be able to provide me with that sense of safety and security I need. But he also needs to be strong enough to trust me with his vulnerabilities and not think him less a dominant for it. He needs to be strong enough to stick with what's right for me, even when I think it isn't and want to argue. He needs to be strong enough to man up when he's wrong and say so.

Sometimes I worry that I expect too much of him in these regards though. That I need him too much. But he *is* strong, and not only can he handle it, he enjoys it.

 

[eastern sun]

I'm just going to admit that I get turned on by a kind of brute physical strength and a certain force of will. But strength over time for both PYL and pyl is measured in flexibility and adaptability.

Endurance feels like strength until my body gives out due to the chronic stress. And force feels like strength until it becomes rigid or fixated, and it's so easy to sidestep, it loses its relevance.

And I think strength is both innate and learned. Discovered. And then developed through practice and exercise.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

IMHO, true strength is when one is able to strengthen the other. When the pyl and PYL know one another so well, that they are able to act as one being, with one being the mind, the other as the body. The pyl no longer needs discipline, as they know the mind of the PYL so well, that there is never a question about what needs to be done; the PYL never needs to train, as the pyl enacts the will of the PYL so well, that it is as flawless as the PYL himself would have done it.

It takes a desire to change, and to be changed, on both parts. It requires open communication, for how can a pyl be strong, if they do not know the PYL's mind, and how can the PYL be strong, if they do not know the pyl's mind? Both must have the desire to serve, and to be served, as the PYL serves by being dominant, and the pyl is being served by the PYL's dominance. Both must be patient with one another, for how can the pyl learn without the PYL taking the time to teach, and how can the PYL be pleased, if the pyl does not take the time to do exactly what is desired of them? Both need to find joy in what they do, and in what the other does, so that the good qualities in the other might be made stronger by their own actions, and the bad will cease and be forgotten. Just as the pyl sacrifices their will, for the sake of pleasing their PYL, the PYL sacrifices their will for the sake of protecting their pyl.

Each make up for what the other lacks, and each becomes an extension of the other. Each gives 110% for the sake of the other... whatever they do, it is not about "me", but rather, about "you": "making you a better pyl"/"pleasing my PYL". In doing so, the D/s dynamic becomes a null point, as they become equals with different strengths... not just equals, but, as one.

With some, it is innate, but with others, it can be learned... the moment you discover that in pleasing the other, you yourself are pleased, regardless of being PYL or pyl, you have learned it.

This, to me, is true strength... when an outsider no longer sees a PYL and a pyl, but rather, see one mind working in two separate bodies.

This is a strong post.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

I think we can measure and feel our strength in action as it powers our endurance, but the capacity of our strength is determined by perseverence and ultimately, our resilience. Yes, I think that genetics can help or hinder this process with personality traits and predispositions, but I don't believe that the amount of strength someone is capable of is a fixed value determined at birth.


In speaking to your question about strength in a dynamic I like this quote by Anais Nin, because to me, she sounds strong.

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.”

 

[Chiara_searches]

I think we can measure and feel our strength in action as it powers our endurance, but the capacity of our strength is determined by perseverence and ultimately, our resilience. Yes, I think that genetics can help or hinder this process with personality traits and predispositions, but I don't believe that the amount of strength someone is capable of is a fixed value determined at birth.


In speaking to your question about strength in a dynamic I like this quote by Anais Nin, because to me, she sounds strong.

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.”

I've also been pondering this Anais Nin quote (along with another one I just mentioned in a different thread). I think strength is about resilience and if my own resilience isn't recognized by a potential partner, he slides into the "possibly really good friend" category quite readily.

I also have to agree with Ravenwind. In my mind, the strongest partnerships are the ones where the individuals encourage and build up the other, regardless of their dynamic label. I've had glimmers of this in the past, but hopefully I'll build that type of relationship in a much better way my next go around.

 

[Lilac_Sky]

Very interesting topic to ponder, and I agree with much of what has been written here.

In my mind, a strong D/s or TPE relationship is one where each partner makes the other stronger/better. Together, they make a strong unit. Each is able to be who they are, who they need to be; each is encouraged to explore themselves and learn and expand.

Specifically (for me), I see strength in a PYL as: having high expectations for the pyl, not accepting anything less than the pyl's best effort, training and teaching and guiding the pyl, exercising patience and understanding when warranted, deliverying discipline and guidance when needed, providing the pyl with a safe environment to release control.

For myself as a pyl, strength is accepting my submission without judging myself, accepting the vulnerability that comes with releasing control, expressing myself as permitted, but accepting Mistress's decisions, putting Mistress's needs first, but always taking care of myself as well, always learning more and improving in my submission.

A lack of strength is when either one compromises themselves or their needs.

 

[KoPilot]

I'm just going to admit that I get turned on by a kind of brute physical strength and a certain force of will. But strength over time for both PYL and pyl is measured in flexibility and adaptability.

Endurance feels like strength until my body gives out due to the chronic stress. And force feels like strength until it becomes rigid or fixated, and it's so easy to sidestep, it loses its relevance.

And I think strength is both innate and learned. Discovered. And then developed through practice and exercise.

This this this this!

 

[YourCaptor]

How about for doms, staying cool and collected no matter what, and subs... being able to sacrifice.

 

[praefect]

My experience in this matter is this. If they fall, I help them up. If I fall, they fall, and I help them up. That requires a lot of strength, because sooner or later, we all fall to our knees.