Story Discussion: March 12, 2007 - The Road to Alrana Ch. 01 & 02, by maharat48

[Guest]

Introducing The Road to Alrana.

This is my first story and has gone through many reviews since it was first posted. It is about a girl who starts her life on a fantasy land, and how she becomes a woman.

There is a prelude before this, but it was actually posted later and should have no bearing on this chapter, beyond the fact that the protagonists have met once before.

I hope you enjoy it!

Maharat

 

[Guest]

feedback

To all fellows of the Story Discussion Circle:

I am interested in all your thoughts on this piece. I respect frankness, but mean makes me cry.

EDIT 1: A more specific question, would be:

what did you get in the first chapter? Did the story flow? Did you picture the girl as she sang, and what did the hall look like to you?



Thank you,


Maharat

 

[Verdad]

Hi, Maharat. I hope you won't think me mean, but I am going to be honest: I found the opening chapters you submitted for discussion unfocused and difficult to follow. I don't know if the story picks up speed later, but the three Lit pages I read gave me no real desire to find out.

Judging from your submissions page, you have an entire fantasy epic going on and for that I commend you. Writers have to write—it's the only way of learning, and just by doing that you've already got the first most important thing covered. I think, however, that you'd benefit greatly from working with a volunteer editor. You seem to be struggling with some basics and someone more experienced might be invaluable in helping you communicate clearly.

One of the first things that suggested to me you're an inexperienced writer was small and fortunately easy to correct, but jarring nevertheless:

You're in habit of occasionally referring to your heroine as "the girl". The unbreakable rules of writing are few, but this should be one of them: once you introduced them, never refer to your point of view characters by anything else but their name or a pronoun. The result is otherwise very confusing for the reader. Each time you mention "the girl", I'm looking around and wondering, what girl? Where did a girl come from? Ah, it's Maya! Why didn't you say so?

Don't worry that using only "Maya" and "she" might be repetitive. It isn't. We're peering over her shoulder and barely noticing these words. Whenever you call her something else, though, you yank us out of her point of view and disorient us.

A similar advice should go for the way you address other characters. I noticed you alternated between "the priest" and "Marius" and possibly some other variations (can't recall, but I have a feeling there was more) with no regard for how Maya would think of him at a particular point in the story.

Again, there's no need to do this for the sake of variety. Pick one way of calling him and stick with it. Change it only when you want to suggest the change in Maya's perception. In the beginning, she's only thinking of him as the priest. She may or may not start thinking of him as Marius later, but once she does, she'll no more go back to "the priest" than you'd refer by titles to your loved ones.

I noticed too that you're no stranger to inverted sentences, probably with the same goal of avoiding repetition. You might want to cut down on those too, and go for what sounds more natural. Inversions have a nasty way of attracting unwanted attention, and besides, your sentence structure seemed varied enough, so you needn't worry about escaping repetition at all costs.

You did have some problems with transitions, though—often you make leaps between one paragraph and the next that don't feel all that intuitive. Some filling in might be required—connections between subsequent thoughts that would give your writing a more fluent feel and assure the reader that you're following a coherent thread. Don't be afraid that you'd overwrite—I'd rather describe your tendency as 'underwriting', trying to be so laconic that you fail to establish clear images or get the points across.

Since I mentioned point of view, I may as well mention this too: you wrote from Maya's point of view but switched to Marius' a couple of times. This is the opening of a much longer story, so possibly the story will require Marius' point of view (he might, for example, have information that Maya doesn't), but from what I read so far, the switching appeared gratuitous.

If there's a good reason for our seeing inside his head, you might consider alternating between the sections written entirely from her POV and the ones written entirely from his. If it's just a matter of switching to him during the decisive moments of sex, though, try showing his emotions without going into his head. They're in everything he does and the way he does it, and we'll easily pick them from there. You might find it a useful exercise, too, since it would force you to describe the action more concretely, and concreteness is something else I found lacking.

By that I don't mean to say that you have to show every filthy detail and that the sex scenes can't have the soft focus you intended them to have. We should have a reasonably clear image of what's going on, however, and I don't think we've got that. Often you stay so much in the character's head that the reader loses track of what's happening in the physical reality—things like whether they're lying or sitting or who's doing what to whom. Try alternating between the objective (what's going on?) and the subjective (how does it make Maya feel?) so that you rely on the objective more.

Beware two other things, too: the overuse of modifiers, and the statements that, taken literally, mean something else than what you intended. As regards the former, it's certainly not an anathema to use an adverb or a couple when you need them, but when you count a dozen in a paragraph, which I did in one of your sex scenes, you know you have a problem. The problem is that they gave you a false sense that you described what's going on, which in truth you didn't. Describe what's really happening instead—how his mouth came down on hers, how his breath caressed her lips, etc—and you'll have no need to call the kiss slow, soft, tender, gentle, etc. The image will become surprisingly more vivid, too.

As regards the latter, I recall one unintentionally funny formulation in particular, though I think there were more. At some point, you wrote: "red circles spread over her body." Did they really? Did she get some rare sort of rash? Or did you mean to say something like "the pleasure spread through her in circles", or "it was as though the pleasure was spreading in circles, red hot and obliterating"? When in doubt, rather be precise than allow a possibility of a literal (mis)interpretation.

Now, probably all this sounds terrible, but I assure you it's not. You've written your story, and that in itself is a great accomplishment and by far the hardest part of the work. What I listed here are the little nuts and bolts that could help you make it more appealing if you intend to work on it more or just things you might want to keep in mind if you're interested in improving your writing in general. There's nothing embarrassing in not getting them right at first.

I'll try to come back later this week with some thoughts about the story or at least about the opening scene about which you inquired, but for now I hope this is of some help.

Best of luck,

Verdad

 

[Guest]

thank you for your detailed comments

It does get better, it does, as you have seen from the epic comment I got on this submission

Since I got that one I have been working with an editor, but with so many submissions, it will take time for the results to show.

Thanks!

Maharat

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Introducing The Road to Alrana.

This is my first story and has gone through many reviews since it was first posted. It is about a girl who starts her life on a fantasy land, and how she becomes a woman.

There is a prelude before this, but it was actually posted later and should have no bearing on this chapter, beyond the fact that the protagonists have met once before.

I hope you enjoy it!

Maharat

I don't know Verdad from Adam's off ox, but I promise you, that critique he/she just gave your chapters is one of the best I've come across in a long time: polite, professional, logical, and helpful.

While adding anything to it could be considered "gilding the lilly" you might want to think about your opening sentence/paragraph. The goal of a first sentence is, of course, to "hook" the reader's interest so they continue on to the second sentence. IMHO, your opening could be stronger.

On another thread, I mentioned this opening sentence in Shang's short story, WILL: I was not made as others. It's on my list of great openings. Here are a few others:

--

They shoot the white girl first.

Paradise, Toni Morrison

--

My mother was a virgin, trust me...

Emotionally Weird, Kate Atkinson

--

The small boys came early to the hanging.

The Pillars of the Earth, Ken Follett

--

There once was a boy named Eustace Clarence Scrubb and he almost deserved it.

Voyage of the Dawn Trader, C S Lewis

--

Remember, all that was just in my humble opinion. Good luck and keep writing.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Penelope Street]

To all fellows of the Story Discussion Circle:

I am interested in all your thoughts on this piece. I respect frankness, but mean makes me cry.

EDIT 1: A more specific question, would be:

what did you get in the first chapter? Did the story flow? Did you picture the girl as she sang, and what did the hall look like to you?



Thank you,


Maharat

Hi Maharat,

Thank you for sharing your story. Is Maya's tale the first you wrote or the first you submitted?

The first chapters left me with many unanswered questions. Why can't Maya sing again? What's the purpose of the ceremony? To whom is Maya betrothed? Is she a witch? Why spend so many years training someone to sing, then forbid them to sing again? Is it some kind of sacrifice? Who was the audience? What do the priests do? What does marriage mean in this society? What are the gender roles?

Linor is certainly an interesting place.

Mystery is good at the beginning of a long story, but there's one mystery I really need to understand before I can become involved with Maya's plight:

What does she want?

Somewhere I read that a scene should begin with a character wanting something and the following action should address that want and the scene should end when the character either achieves or doesn't achieve their goal.

We get the tiniest hint in the first paragraph- Maya wishes she had stayed home for another year or two- although that's more about what she doesn't want than what she does. After that, her mind races no place in particular, then between heaven and earth, and finally to some magical place where the music had taken her. Later, she's afraid for a moment, but it's unclear why.

Important questions went unanswered for me, like does Maya want to be a mother? The use of 'fallen' to describe the pregnancies might be a clue, but if so, it's a subtle one. Overall, I get the impression Maya is a weak person, someone who does what she's told without questioning it much, someone to whom things happen rather than someone who makes things happen.

So Maya sings. She has sex. She swins. She watches the stars. She reads. She wanders about town. I felt like the story was wandering too.

The flow is also a little chopping in places. For instance, I was a little startled when I realized Maya had begun singing. One moment she seems to be lamenting that she cannot sing after today and the next she's shifting a step to complete the harmony. I did adore how you ended the song: ... the magical moment already belonging in the past. Nice touch of meloncholy.

I didn't picture Maya while she sang. Instead I saw the audience from her eyes, including her teacher. Who is this person- someone important during Maya's years of exhaustive training? Will her teacher have any part to play in Maya's future? Does Maya's teacher visit after the, uh, ceremony? It seems a natural thing for a teacher to do and if the two had chatted afterward, I might have learned much more about Maya.

Although it may be beyond the scope of discussing "The Road to Alrana", I glanced at the first several paragraphs of "Alranan Tales":
http://www.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=279247
To me, this is a stronger opening. She has misgivings about making a trip with her husband because she believes he no longer wants her. I can understand her plight and I'm with her at once.

That's the main issue I had reading "The Road to Alrana": I couldn't get in touch with the central character enough to become involved in the magic of her world.

I hope I managed to answer your questions in there somewhere without being mean.

Take Care,
Penny

 

[Penelope Street]

The unbreakable rules of writing are few, but this should be one of them: once you introduced them, never refer to your point of view characters by anything else but their name or a pronoun.

That's a rule I hadn't heard of, but it makes so much sense. Thank you.

... you wrote from Maya's point of view but switched to Marius' a couple of times.

I noticed them too, but only a few really jarred me, like: The priest had been observing her today, and she had not even noticed him in the reading room.

 

[Verdad]

I don't know Verdad from Adam's off ox…

Glad to make your acquaintance, Mr. Foreskin! You're right about the openings, of course, and the list you compiled is delicious. I've been perusing my sci-fi classics lately, so if I had to add one to the list, the first to come to mind would be from Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light:

His followers called him Mahasamatman and said he was a god. He preferred to drop the Maha- and the -atman, however, and called himself Sam.

As for the story at hand—Maharat, you've taken a different road than most of these examples in that you went straight for the establishing shot. As an approach, that can work just as well, only you might try to execute it a bit better. Perhaps for starters you could try describing the opening picture you see in more detail, then look for something attention-grabbing in it or in Maya's perception of it—somewhere in there a good opening could be hiding.

I thought to write you a couple words about the story, too, but Penelope really voiced what were my thoughts too. In order to appreciate the implications of your social order on the lives of the characters, I would have loved understanding that social order better. The other issue—of Maya's motivation—seems connected with the first. I'm guessing you're building the tension on the discrepancy between the expectations of the society and Maya's personal wants, but since I can't quite get a handle on either, that tension falls flat. (E.g. if the relationship between Maya and the priest is supposed to be forbidden, it went right by me.)

You seem to have been holding your cards too close to your chest on both counts, so I can only reiterate, don't be afraid to give us more!

Verdad

 

[Verdad]

Somewhere I read that a scene should begin with a character wanting something and the following action should address that want and the scene should end when the character either achieves or doesn't achieve their goal.

This is from the scene & sequel theory, isn't it? Words worth repeating!

That's a rule I hadn't heard of, but it makes so much sense. Thank you.

Thanks! I don't recall reading it in so many words either, but it does make sense.

I noticed them too, but only a few really jarred me, like: The priest had been observing her today, and she had not even noticed him in the reading room.

Hmm, you're right… In the beginning, the shifts were subtle enough. I was rather jarred by this, though:

Marius met a wall of resistance. Already he suspected that they were hopelessly unmatched where it mattered, and she was too inexperienced to help him. Yet, she was so drenched in her desire, he did not think to reach for the oil he always used. Marius just stood at the gate for a while, waiting for the sign that would admit him. He leant carefully to reach her mouth, sucked her tongue to him, and with that she allowed him in just a little.

Or this:

Marius had been a bit surprised that she had peaked so quickly, but wonder had no small part on his unusual choice of a lover. The wizard stayed still as she recovered, then felt the wonders of he female body working for him. Her channel lengthened perceptibly even as he waited, and as her womb had moved slightly upwards, he now had room to thrust at will. He savored his victory as he waited for her to rest a little longer.

I'm not sure how much other readers mind this, but I pointed it out because I noticed it's quite common, not only in Maharat's case.

In my experience, it's when the things get steamy that most of POV shifts occur. Probably it's a consequence of the way we fantasize. It's hot to think of the pleasure our partner is experiencing, very tempting to become them during the "good parts". Not so hot for the reader to lose contact with the character they've been following all along, though, or at least not so in my opinion?

Verdad

 

[Penelope Street]

I don't know Verdad from Adam's off ox, but I promise you, that critique he/she just gave your chapters is one of the best I've come across in a long time: polite, professional, logical, and helpful.

I absolutely agree!

As for the story at hand—Maharat, you've taken a different road than most of these examples in that you went straight for the establishing shot. As an approach, that can work just as well, only you might try to execute it a bit better. Perhaps for starters you could try describing the opening picture you see in more detail, then look for something attention-grabbing in it or in Maya's perception of it—somewhere in there a good opening could be hiding.

I read something last week that suggested aspiring writers start with a simple, honest opening line like the one Maharat chose. Maybe it's not one of those lines for the ages, but there's nothing wrong with it and it gets the story going.

I'm not sure how much other readers mind this, but I pointed it out because I noticed it's quite common, not only in Maharat's case.

POV shifts didn't bother me a few years ago, but now that I know they're against the rules, I notice them. Go figure!

 

[Guest]

internet problems

I absolutely agree!

I read something last week that suggested aspiring writers start with a simple, honest opening line like the one Maharat chose. Maybe it's not one of those lines for the ages, but there's nothing wrong with it and it gets the story going.

POV shifts didn't bother me a few years ago, but now that I know they're against the rules, I notice them. Go figure!

To all that discussed my story last week:

I was without Internet for a week or so. It was not planned or I would have delayed this discussion. I thank you so much for all the comments you gave me. I do know that the first chapters don't work, but it being my first work it is even harder to rewrite than the others.

I think I have moved from POV shifts myself because they are hard to do, but they don't bother me in other works. I actually removed a few already from this story, and it is certainly something I want to fix in the future.

Thanks again,

Maharat

 

[Penelope Street]

I was without Internet for a week or so. It was not planned or I would have delayed this discussion.

Well, that sucks! Welcome back.

I do know that the first chapters don't work, but it being my first work it is even harder to rewrite than the others.

That's one reason I mentioned the other piece of which I read the opening. It appeared to me the later work was more polished which led me to wonder why we didn't discuss that one instead.

 

[Guest]

Well, that sucks! Welcome back.

That's one reason I mentioned the other piece of which I read the opening. It appeared to me the later work was more polished which led me to wonder why we didn't discuss that one instead.

Thanks!

I guess the foremost reason not to put Tales for discussion is that it requires at least some knowledge of the back story.

In any case, "Road" is more highly rated (and read) and I was at loss with what is wrong with it. Not anymore

Maharat