Stomach Stapling. Yes, No, Maybe?

[Semler]

Odds are if I find a substantial amount of negative information I will show it to her. In fact if there is any legitimate info I find that she is unaware of I will make sure she knows about it.

The only way I would seriously try to talk her out of it would be if there was a high mortality rate or a great percentage of failure.

We'll see.

Here is a site that I got alot of information from.

http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/home.phtml

 

[sunstruck]

If this is just a way to avoid diet and exercise, I'd predict failure.

Just my opinion, however.

I can't be sure, but I don't think it is. Yes she hates excercise, but she is active, and I've never seen her really over eat. I'm not saying she couldn't be binging when I'm not around, but I don't think that is the case. She does eat more often then I would think is normal though.

She has a very slow metabolism (according to her doc) so even normal eating habbits would result in some weight gain. I think there was a point where she could have stopped the problem with minimal effort, but she's past that now.

Honestly there are a million questions only she can answer, and hopefully she's honest with herself when she does.

 

[cricketbug]

badkitty

y'know... weight is something i struggle to overcome as well... it's hard having a mom who's 5'5" and weighs 130-ish soaking wet... i'm 5'9" and am at 190...NOT soaking wet *chuckles*

... however, my doc informed me that I'm "just right for whhere i need to be" and so if he's not concerned, i'm not either... HOWEVER ... I want to tone back up.


*fades back into my computer*

 

[Olivianna]

Sounds like she's likely looked into all possibilities...but just in case, has she been checked for thyroid disorder, or anything else hormonal?

If this is a last resort - I would say go for it. In our body-obsessed culture, living as an obese person can be akin to a social disease. Good luck to her.

 

[Jewelz]

Here is a site that I got alot of information from.

http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/home.phtml

I was just going to suggest this wonderful site! Sunny, have her read the profiles on people there and gather information. It is a very useful site and rather inspirational too. I wish your cousin the best. She has to do what is best for her and not what everyone around her thinks is politically correct or the lazy way out. Sometimes with morbidly obese, like me, who have tried mainstream diet plans or have changed their eating habits and exercise but still have a serious amount of weight to lose will find this as a positive alternative. Personally, I believe anyone considering this dangerous surgery to spend a lot of time gathering information on it. I know I have learned a vast amount of information on my quest.

 

[crysede]

How do you get in shape without losing a pound?

The amount of fat you carry and your cardiovascular fitness are two separate things. Exercise will get you fit, and it will also increase your calory consumption - however, if you increase you food consumption to match the extra calories you are burning off, you will not lose a pound while you are getting in shape, and you will still get fit. (Usually fat people will lose some weight when they get fit - but unless purposefully dieting they are unlikely to become thin).

More than a decade ago the foundation was blown out from under the whole fat=unhealthy argument - unfortunately most doctors have been as unwilling as the rest of society to accept these facts. The diet industry (a huge finanacial power house) has played a big role in keeping doctors on the straight an narrow - prescribing pills and surgery rather than acceptatance and exercise - after all, pills and surgery (which requires even fancier pills) are much more lucrative.

The only reason why we used to think that being fat was, in and of itself, unhealthy, is that very few fat people are actually fit - and that's societies fault: fat people are given the impression that even mild exercise like walking (swimming is actually the best exercise for the super sized, since no joint stress at all even if they don't have perfect posture - but walking is second best) is putting their lives at risk- that they shouldn't get out of breath for fear of collapsing of a heart attack - and if they go to the doctor due to muscle or joint pain they never get refereed to a decent physiotherapist/podiatrist, they get told they need to stop trying to exercise until they've lost weight

This is all a huge pet peeve of mine (in case you couldn't tell lol) - one of my best friends is more than 250lbs overweight (which is not even close to being dangerously obese, with proper exercise a heart can handle that extra weight just fine), and the idiocy she's been subjected to by the medical establishment is just beyond belief! It seriously makes me want to gain 100lbs just so I can laugh in their collective faces when they lecture me on the evils of being "morbidly obese," and challenge them to just try and keep up with my fat ass on a hike

Tell your friend to get herself a copy of "Big Fat Lies" by Dr Glenn Gaesser (I can give references to a truck load of medical studies too, but Gaesser's book is a really accessable summery of the findings in the area of obesity research. (I found a brief discussion of his findings here, if you want to take a look). Here's his thoughts on surgery:

When asked about Weight Loss Surgery, Gaesser said he was not an expert on the topic, but realizes that it is currently marketed "up the wazoo." He commented on all those celebrities hyping it, people whose lives and realities are very, very different from those of the average person. He cited a clinic in Virginia that shut down after six WLS-related deaths, three from suicides after the surgery. He confessed being appalled at some of the commentary re WLS he's been hearing at conferences.

 

[sunstruck]

Oook, but if one of the main reasons she is overweight is hatred of excercize how on earth would this help?

She doesn't WANT to be the size she is. She would RATHER be thin. She DEFINITELY doen't want large, bulky groteque muscles.

Oh, and 250lbs OVERweight IS dangerously obese.

I get your argument but I don't think it's relevent at all.

 

[Pyper]

Crysede, I know this is a big, erm, crusade of yours, and I am by no means an expert in this field, but:

My mother, who is in the medical field, says that obesity, and abdominal fat in particular, leads to heart disease because the fat in the abdomen causes pressure on the organs above the diaphragm, such as the heart and lungs. Also, I was taught that obesity leads to heart disease because the fat surrounding the heart constricts it, making it a greater effort for it to pump.

Now, you have said many times that obese people who are cardiovascularly (is that a word?) unfit are at the same risk for heart disease as thin people who are unfit. However, thin people do not have the extra constriction of extreme amounts fat surrounding their vital organs. Fit or not, wouldn't it make more sense that an obese person would be at greater risk?

 

[Ask For More]

Crysede, I know this is a big, erm, crusade of yours, and I am by no means an expert in this field, but:

My mother, who is in the medical field, says that obesity, and abdominal fat in particular, leads to heart disease because the fat in the abdomen causes pressure on the organs above the diaphragm, such as the heart and lungs. Also, I was taught that obesity leads to heart disease because the fat surrounding the heart constricts it, making it a greater effort for it to pump.

Now, you have said many times that obese people who are cardiovascularly (is that a word?) unfit are at the same risk for heart disease as thin people who are unfit. However, thin people do not have the extra constriction of extreme amounts fat surrounding their vital organs. Fit or not, wouldn't it make more sense that an obese person would be at greater risk?

I think this makes more sense too...

The only way thin people can be at risk is if they are seriously underweight. And even then, wouldn't it be more a whole body problem than a heart problem?

 

[crysede]

Crysede, I know this is a big, erm, crusade of yours, and I am by no means an expert in this field, but:

My mother, who is in the medical field, says that obesity, and abdominal fat in particular, leads to heart disease because the fat in the abdomen causes pressure on the organs above the diaphragm, such as the heart and lungs. Also, I was taught that obesity leads to heart disease because the fat surrounding the heart constricts it, making it a greater effort for it to pump.

Now, you have said many times that obese people who are cardiovascularly (is that a word?) unfit are at the same risk for heart disease as thin people who are unfit. However, thin people do not have the extra constriction of extreme amounts fat surrounding their vital organs. Fit or not, wouldn't it make more sense that an obese person would be at greater risk?

No, fat does not constrict the heart in anyway - I think she must have meant something else though, since it wouldn't even be physiologically possible for fat to compress the heart. Fat won't compress the lungs and other organs either (unless you are extremely obese, and spend all your time lying on your back), the human body is ingeniously designed for carrying a good deal of fat around (makes sense from an evolutionary perspective - you'd want to take advantage of bountiful times to build up nice fat reserves to get through lean periods).

The links made between fatness and heart decease, at least in the studies I've looked at, are due to the fact that fat people are almost always unfit, and unfit people are at much, much higher risk of high blood pressure and high tri-glyceride levels (the two primary risk factors for heart disease).

I agree, intuitively one would think that surely there must be something intrinsically wrong with being fat - it can't all just be cultural bias - fit fat people must at least be less healthy than equally fit thin people. The problem is, the studies don't support this view: equally fit people seem to be equally healthy.

 

[crysede]

The only way thin people can be at risk is if they are seriously underweight.

Or if they smoke (this one's a HUGE risk factor), or if they are unfit (rare for a thin person, but it happens), or if they have unhealthy diets

 

[Guest]

 

[Pyper]

No, fat does not constrict the heart in anyway - I think she must have meant something else though, since it wouldn't even be physiologically possible for fat to compress the heart. Fat won't compress the lungs and other organs either (unless you are extremely obese, and spend all your time lying on your back), the human body is ingeniously designed for carrying a good deal of fat around (makes sense from an evolutionary perspective - you'd want to take advantage of bountiful times to build up nice fat reserves to get through lean periods).

I usually agree with you on all things (crysede is my god! ), but I just can't agree with you on this.

I don't see why it's impossible for fat to constrict the heart, in fact, I'm pretty sure I've heard doctors cite this as one of the factors of heart disease. All hearts have a thin layer of fat around them, and in obese people that layer just keeps getting thicker and thicker until it becomes an effort for the heart to function. I've held a sheep's heart in my hands, and the fat on that sucker was half a centimeter thick, all around. It's not a stretch of my imagination to see that fat constricting the heart. After all, there's only so much room in the pericardium, right?

Also, the study linking abdominal fat in particular with heart disease was a relatively recent one that appeared in one of my mother's medical journals. Less than a year ago, I believe.

Also, couldn't carrying around so much extra weight also put a strain on the heart? It would be like walking around with 100 pound weights (or more) twenty four hours a day. Perfectly fit athletes drop dead all the time from overexertion. An obese person, unless they sit around all day, is technically constantly performing extreme physical activity.

I assure you, I am perfectly aware than being skinny does not automatically equal being fit and does not factor out heart disease (ask three of my grandparents, of average weight and dead of heart disease). But, all things being equal, if there was an obese person who did not smoke, exercised regularly, and ate well, and there was a skinny person who did not smoke, exercised regularly, and ate well, I believe the obese person would be at much greater risk for heart-related ailments.

 

[Earthmuffin]

My 2 cents..

I read this thread with great interest. I'm amazed at how many misconceptions are out there about morbid obesity. There are actually different types. One specific type that leads to failure in these surgeries is Carbohydrate Addiction. It's important to know your demon. Sunstruck - your sister has your love and support and either way she goes that will be hugely important.

I actually work in an operating room and have assisted physicians in open and laparoscopic Roux-en-y's and gastric bypasses (essentially the same procedure). Banding is not a procedure that every physician who can do gastric bypass is trained to do so not as well known.

The thing your sister needs to know is the risk of death from morbid obesity and the risks from surgery are both serious. She will not enjoy the immediate post-surgical period. She'll be HUNGRY and not be able to satisfy that immediately. It will hurt. Alot. She will have to have continuous follow up by her surgeon and internist. She will have to give up ALL soda forever, most (if not all) caffeine and several other things (possibly things like strawberries for a year).

There is also the far end of the spectrum. Success, plastic surgery to remove loose tissue, and then the inability to maintain weight. These patients are surgically induced to become anorexic (bulimia is another condition). All of this should be explained more than once by her surgeon. S/he should offer a support group pre and post op.

Ok, rambled enough for one thread...feel free to contact me if I can be of any assistance!

 

[crysede]

Oook, but if one of the main reasons she is overweight is hatred of excercize how on earth would this help?

She doesn't WANT to be the size she is. She would RATHER be thin. She DEFINITELY doen't want large, bulky groteque muscles.

Oh, and 250lbs OVERweight IS dangerously obese.

I get your argument but I don't think it's relevent at all.

If she prefers life threatening surgery to walking, well that's her choice to make. The way you stated the question just made it sound like she was doing it because of concern for her health - which would be an odd reason to have such a dangerous surgery for, when there's a no-risk alterative available.

But if thinness is her primary goal, then surgery is probably her best chance of achieving it.

 

[Lancecastor]

Earthmuffin's statements are consistent with my experience in representing a woman some 15 years ago who wound up with brain damage and paralysis after a stomach stapling that went wrong.

My understanding is it's still a controversial procedure today.

Lance

 

[crysede]

...But, all things being equal, if there was an obese person who did not smoke, exercised regularly, and ate well, and there was a skinny person who did not smoke, exercised regularly, and ate well, I believe the obese person would be at much greater risk for heart-related ailments.

Nope, they aren't more at risk - but I don't have any of the journals on hand, so I can't give you specifics right now - I'll be in the medical library tomorrow though, so I'll get the citations for ya then (but I'll PM them to you, so as not to keep hijacking this thread - I'm trying to cut back on my hijacking this year ). Oh, and I'll get back to you on the heart-compression issue tomorrow too - I want to pick up this study you mention before commenting on it, since I seen anything about it (I hate discussing studies I don't know anything about - I'm a tad OCD ).

 

[Pyper]

Nope, they aren't more at risk - but I don't have any of the journals on hand, so I can't give you specifics right now - I'll be in the medical library tomorrow though, so I'll get the citations for ya then (but I'll PM them to you, so as not to keep hijacking this thread ). Oh, and I'll get back to you on the heart-compression issue tomorrow too - I want to pick up this study you mention before commenting on it, since I seen anything about it (I hate discussing studies I don't know anything about - I'm a tad OCD ).

Sure, sounds good. Heh, I had almost forgotten we were hijacking...

 

[heavenly body]

Excess weight means your heart has to pump that much more to circulate the excess tissue. And although it is possible to be fit and overweight it does put you at risk for becoming diabetic. People who are obese are often insulin resistant. They do not metabolize in the same way as thin people. These folks are often the ones who can eat the same as you and I but still gain weight because of this genetic difference. In the times of famines this was a big plus cause these were the folks who survived. Now that we do not have this type of situations they are the ones who gain weight easily and have to expend more energy to lose it. SO folks it is not a matter of being lazy or undisciplined.

Think about it how many times have you heard snide, rude comments made about heavy people when they attempt to exercise or even walk down the street. I was walking with my girlfriend who has about 80lbs to lose and some guys rolled down their windows to make pig noises at her. We go to the gym and the same thing happens. It pisses me right off. I look at people a lot differently now since I have been working with her.

I wish your cousin didn't have to resort to this surgery but after working with my girlfriend I understand why she seeks a faster easier solution to her problem. Good luck to her.

 

[Eumenides]

I did not read all the posts on this thread, so forgive me if i reiterate points already made. This surgery was intended for people who have serious health problems due to their weight. It has had success in many people, and yes, there are risks. There are also risks to letting onesself get fat.

I would not consider it at this point in my life because I am still young, and though my willpower leaves a lot to be desired, I believe that I can do it on my own. However, anyone who is at a serious health risk stage of their life has to make that choice. They are risking either way.

At my weight, and being a smoker, I find exercise difficult at best. I can only imagine what people who have 200 lbs. on me have to deal with. I go through phases where I can eat nothing all day and not realize it, and then I go through phases where I cannot seem to get full no matter how much water and fiber I consume. It is a very emotional undertaking, losing weight. The thought of failure looms in the back of one's mind, and having failed so many times, it's hard to bear that first step again. I am terrified that I won't do it, and that I will end up diabetic with heart problems. Every day that I do or don't "diet" or exercise is an emotional rollercoaster for me. I am determined to succeed, but if I ever became in risk of death, I would definitely weigh my options and consider this surgery.

 

[sunstruck]

Earthmuffin thank you. Your post was exactly the kind of info I was looking for. (though "Anna" is my cousin. lol)

Right now she's at serious risk of becoming diabetic due to her weight. Her mother, also overweight has been diabetic since she was in her late 20's. She's in her early 50's now, though you would like she was in her late 60's. She has pretty much lost her eyesight, she can barely walk and she has too many health problems to list. She won't live to see 60.

I don't want Anna to end up like that. I'll support any decision she makes as long as it isn't do nothing.

 

[Thin Man]

An employee

Had the operation. He was pretty big and did not seem to have many aftereffects. He lost over a hundred pounds, maybe one fifty. He left for a while and then came back a year or so later.
I walked into the lunch room one day and he was chowing down on a couple of Big Macs, fries and a shake.
We all are entitled to an opinion, so here is mine. Overweight is as much a state of mind as anything else.
I am thin, and I really have to work out and make myself hungry to gain weight. I really have no idea what it is like to be obese, so my opinion must be taken with a grain of salt.

My take on it is really simple:
Burn more calories than you ingest= weight loss

Ingest more calories than you burn=weight gain

Exercise and a healthy diet with a healthy self image will generally lead to good health. Changing ones dietary habits is much like quitting drugs. Requires a major overhaul in lifestyle and attitudes. Nothing good was ever accomplished easily.

 

[sunstruck]

Thinman. If you know nothing about the procedure, being overwieight, or dealing with weight issues why did you feel the need to post at all?

 

[Thin Man]

Thinman. If you know nothing about the procedure, being overwieight, or dealing with weight issues why did you feel the need to post at all?

Just commenting that I knew someone who had had the operation and did not seem to have many negative side effects.
AND, making a comment. I do work with several women who deal with weight problems and after a few years of daily listening and watching them deal with it, I have an opinion, and I voiced it.

 

[Tranquility]

My sister in law had it...when GREAT she has lost alot of weight looks wonderful,but when she gets the flu or something all she wants is someone to put her outa the misery she is sicker than should be something to do with enzymes and blah blah blah plus she has low blood now...Have a friend who had it flip side of coin she damn near died was in a coma for 3 months in the hosp, itself damn near 6 months,now she has to go back in because the tube is leaking where food goes into her stomach and it could very well kill her plus she has never completely healed from the surgery. So it could go either way,would I do it helllllllll no not after that would much rather sweat to the oldies with spandex boy simmons then risk dying. But its a personal choice.