Stock market below 8,000

[REDWAVE]

The stock market is heading south again, over 150 points today last time I checked. It's crashed below the support point it had found at 8,000. Now there's no telling how far it might fall. This is especially so, given the Index of Leading Economic Indicators is also down.

Can you say "another Great Depression"? I knew you could!

 

[phrodeau]

You get off on that, don't you?

Can you say "sadist"?

 

[REDWAVE]

Moi?

Get off on it? No. Multitudes of people are really suffering from the current economic downturn. If you want to see who the real sadists are, look at the politicians in Wasgington, D.C., of both parties-- none of whom are doing anything to help the myraid victims of the collapse of the capitalist system.

Essentially, they're just being thrown away and left to starve.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

It's just an Oliver Stone world where you live, isn't it?

 

[REDWAVE]

Even assuming (for the sake of argument) that's true, Dix, I like it better than the Norman Rockwell dreamworld you inhabit.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

You assume so much about my point of view that's wrong. Disliking you because you're a hateful dink doesn't mean my position is on the other side of the globe. You keep thinking that when we call you the "teenage wasteland of political science" that we're debating you and taking the opposite position. That's not true, and that you think it's true is another indication that you are unable to analyze the information you read with any sort of scope.

 

[REDWAVE]

"when you call you"

You need to edit your post. It makes no sense as written.

Not that it would, anyway.

Also, "oppositite."

 

[takingchances42]

At 7,800 the Dow Jones Industrial Average is only moderately overvalued, instead of hugely overvalued like it was. The index of leading economic indicators is edging down, but still very positive over all.

Ho hum, so the market is not as much of a speculative bubble as it was a couple of years ago. What does that have to do with the supposed collapse of Capitalism?

(I would argue that Capitalism is safer and a "collapse" less likely with the Dow at 7,800 than 12,000... bubbles can be nasty if they pop too fast...)

 

[REDWAVE]

Good question!

Good question, takingchances. It's not just the stock market. The economic fundamentals worldwide are pretty dismal right now. The collapse of the stock market bubble of the 1990's has left massive overcapacity, a collapse of business investment, and an enormous increase in inequality. Add to that the fact that the social "safety net" has been shredded here in the U.S. and is virtually nonexistent, and you have a recipe for social and political chaos on a huge scale.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Fixed. Thanks. Kisses.

 

[REDWAVE]

Historical patterns

History never repeats itself exactly, of course, but certain patterns do repeat. If you want to get a picture of what this decade will be like, look at the 1930's. The deatils will be different, of course, but the general pattern of world-wide depression, war, and a revolutionary upsurge is being repeated today.

 

[Aquila]

There are several factors as to why this is happening, however in the end it will correct itself, as capitalism is the A number one way to go for economic structure. socialism doesnt work, facism sure as hell dont work, and hippies dancing around trees singing save the rainforest don't work either.

Have faith in your economic system, it works for you.

Soon, over inflated salaries will start to plumet, and the price of goods will plumet as well since the available money pool will diminish.. the next market to fall will be the real estate market, (the price of a two bedroom one bath home being 100,000 to 150,000 dollars) as your low income housing areas can no longer be owned by those meant to occupy those areas.

hence...

Oh wait no.. I thought I had a brain there for a minute, dont mind me.

 

[Guest]

Buy Low... Sell High!

 

[REDWAVE]

How low will it go?

The stock market dropped over two hundred points today, to just under 7,300. It's now lost about 40% of its value since the peak in March 2000. There hasn't been a decline in the financial markets of this magnitude since-- the 1930's.

"Prosperity is just around the corner." Know who said that?

But don't worry-- it's impossible for the market to drop below zero. In fact, it's unlikely it'll go much below 1,000.

 

[Johnny Cool]

hippies dancing around trees singing save the rainforest don't work either.

Doesn't work in what sense? It works great for saving trees.

 

[Aquila]

The market will rebound.
Its inevitable, the actual work/production rates are up in some cases and steady in others.

its confidence that is low right now, not the actual value of the dollar.

its not like it jsut dissapeared and went poof or something

 

[REDWAVE]

Yes-- eventually

Sure, the market will rebound-- eventually. The question is when. My prediction is-- not anytime soon.

Meanwhile unemployment is increasing, poverty is increasing, the social safety net has been shredded. All the conditions for a social explosion exist, or are coming into existence.

 

[phrodeau]

Don't you wish you had some discretionary income to invest right now? Or did you give it all to the poor and disadvantaged?

 

[Sandia]

At 7,800 the Dow Jones Industrial Average is only moderately overvalued, instead of hugely overvalued like it was.

I'd pegged 6,000 before as a good number. But I haven't looked at it in a while.

 

[SINthysist]

I've been saying 7000 for well, a year, cause WD and I hade a bet on Jan 1. His was 10,400, mine was 7000. At first he was closer, but, tee, hee, hee, hee...

Sir John Templeton and others are calling for 5,000.

I wouldn't be surprised. It is refreshing not to hear p_p_ yelling about the strength of the EU and the Euro, since they are now kinda collapsing, too.

That's why we need to settle the instability, and quickly, so grab your boots, comrade, we're gonna go kill some Russo-Sino cutouts...! Yipekaiyaaaaaaamuthafugga!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rodney King]

You assume so much about my point of view that's wrong. Disliking you because you're a hateful dink doesn't mean my position is on the other side of the globe. You keep thinking that when we call you the "teenage wasteland of political science" that we're debating you and taking the opposite position. That's not true, and that you think it's true is another indication that you are unable to analyze the information you read with any sort of scope.

This is the most true statement I have seen written about Redwave. Right to the point. And its so pitiful when you realize that Redwave really believes that when all of those that dis him are at the opposite end of his political views.

But what can you expect from someone that can only recite political views of others that he has read?

 

[REDWAVE]

Just because you make stupid assumptions about what I allegedly assume doesn't mean that I assume what you mistakenly think I assume . . .

 

[Sandia]

I've been saying 7000 for well, a year, cause WD and I hade a bet on Jan 1. His was 10,400, mine was 7000. At first he was closer, but, tee, hee, hee, hee...

Sir John Templeton and others are calling for 5,000.

I wouldn't be surprised. It is refreshing not to hear p_p_ yelling about the strength of the EU and the Euro, since they are now kinda collapsing, too.

That's why we need to settle the instability, and quickly, so grab your boots, comrade, we're gonna go kill some Russo-Sino cutouts...! Yipekaiyaaaaaaamuthafugga!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you ever read Dow 30K? It came out in 2000. It was full of good statistics and interesting analysis, but flawed - IMO.

I wonder if the guys who wrote it are embarrassed at all?

 

[phrodeau]

Try saying that with a dick in your mouth.

 

[REDWAVE]

Sandia

Good point, Sandia. Many of the same pundits who not long ago were claiming the "boom/bust" cycle had been abolished and the market would just go up, up, and away forever are (amazingly) still allowed to "punditize" on TV and elsewhere. Now their line is the economy is on the verge of recovery ("Prosperity is right around the corner!"), while they studiously avoid mentioning their previous, totally worng, predictions.

The fact is, periodic crises are inherent to the capitalist system.