Stereotypes and Diversity

[BradSmithson]

I have an issue I thought might make for a good discussion.

My characters sometimes feel a little predictable.
As my published books focus on straight/curious/open-minded men I often seem to lean toward the same stereotypes.

I have access to a good community of readers who love the genre and whenever I poll them the answers seem to support more diversity, but when I do that the stories seem to get less attention. I wonder whether people are claiming they want more variation but secretly/subconsciously are driven toward the rather predictable "hung frat boy with muscles" or "18 year old curious twink".

I know I'm lucky to have an audience I can ask quite easily - and I don't make as much use of that as I should - but does anyone else think that maybe readers just say they want characters to be more diverse while secretly enjoying the same formula?

Do you experience that in any of your feedback?

And, how would you go about pinning down more diversity in your characters? I personally select an image or individual to base a character on and keep them open on my desktop while I'm writing. It's been working for me so far but I'm wondering if there's anything you do to keep track of your characters?

 

[AlinaX]

I like to write diverse characters, but doing so takes a lot more thought and care, which does slow the writing process down.

 

[Bramblethorn]

How are you wording your polls? This is the kind of topic where wording can make a huge difference to the answers you get.

If you're asking something like "do you want to see a more diverse range of characters in my stories?" many people are going to hear that as "what party do you vote for?" and answer accordingly, because "diversity" is such a politically charged word. It's like, I dunno, going to a Manchester United v. Manchester City football match and asking people what their favourite colour is; they're going to tell you their team colours, not their actual personal preferences.

FWIW, I've generally had positive feedback when I've made the effort to broaden the range of characters in my stories.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I have access to a good community of readers who love the genre and whenever I poll them the answers seem to support more diversity, but when I do that the stories seem to get less attention. I wonder whether people are claiming they want more variation but secretly/subconsciously are driven toward the rather predictable "hung frat boy with muscles" or "18 year old curious twink".

You may be polling your audience, but you are receiving a subset of their reactions from only those who care to answer your poll.

This is like the comments and reactions in Loving Wives here on LitE. The audience consists of both extremes of sharing versus monogamy. Any single story of a swinger/sharing relationship is like "polling" that audience and receives a low rating. But there might also be plenty of 5s and good comments from the other faction.

The diversity called for by some in your audience might not be shared by all and be a turn-off to some others.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

In my experience readers are happy with a diverse range of looks in their characters, because they don't have to do any work.

But if they speak differently or use unfamiliar words and phrases, however much they get explained in the text, half the comments will be about how the dialect was hard to follow (while the other half will be appreciating it). Lots of potential readers who click on the story will just click away again.

 

[KeithD]

I know I'm lucky to have an audience I can ask quite easily - and I don't make as much use of that as I should - but does anyone else think that maybe readers just say they want characters to be more diverse while secretly enjoying the same formula?

I'm pretty diverse in my characters. I don't remember a reader commenting on that one way or the other.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

But if they speak differently or use unfamiliar words and phrases, however much they get explained in the text, half the comments will be about how the dialect was hard to follow (while the other half will be appreciating it). Lots of potential readers who click on the story will just click away again.

Boy am I learning this right now. I published a story with some untranslated profanity in another language, and now I'm working on another story with some technical jargon from the narrator's job. Both got comments from my beta readers, and then, for the one I published, from readers. (So thanks beta readers?)

 

[samhasstories]

I try to vary my characters' physical characteristics to some degree, and that sometimes includes skin color/ethnic background. I haven't received any feedback, good or bad, in that regard. I don't really spend a lot of time musing on these differences - my stories have generally not been about diversity - so maybe readers who object to them for whatever reason just skim over those details and picture whoever they want.

 

[SimonDoom]

Traditionally, I have NOT been especially diverse with my characters. The reason for that is that my stories tend to be fairly short, and cultural background is not important to the plot of the story. So I tend to default toward characters with backgrounds similar to my own. It's easy, I don't have to think about it, and I can focus on what I want to focus on: the plot, and the kinky aspects of the story.

I've never received any complaints or suggestions that I should write more diverse characters.

But as a writer, I'm not satisfied. Sticking with the familiar isn't creative OR realistic enough to be wholly satisfying. So with my stories in process I'm making more of an effort to incorporate people from a variety of backgrounds. Even a little thing like giving a character a name that isn't an Anglo name helps. For my Pink Orchid story, after I started it, I decided it would be more interesting to make the middle-aged woman protagonist Iranian-American, so I swapped out the existing Anglo name and replaced it with a Persian one. I don't know if I can pull it off, but it makes it a much more interesting and fulfilling story to write, and I think in the end it will be more erotic, too.

 

[Bamagan]

I often give some of my characters names that are suggestive of non-European backgrounds, or else European ancestry that is not widely prevalent in the US, but I don't know how diverse that actually feels to a reader. I mostly write their dialogue the same as any other character, aside from occasionally doing minor things like droppin' the final letter of a word, using faux contractions like 'outta' or 'shoulda' and the like, or peppering their speech with occasional non-English phrases or idioms.

I use fairly minimal physical descriptions, so other than using words to suggest lighter or darker skin tones, tall of my characters are canonically pretty blurry.

Frankly, I don't know if it's better or seems to more bigoted to write everyone the same and be accused of white-washing or to include specific references to cultural or ethnic identifiers and be accused of stereotyping (or else trying to make the character's background seem exotic and therefore a fetish in and of itself). I lean more toward the former, mostly because it's less work for me when trying to write dialogue, and as a reader I often get frustrated by trying to sound out accents I've never been exposed to based purely on how mangled the spelling is. For better or for worse, though, no one has ever commented on my characters' ethnic or cultural backgrounds, so I have no idea if anyone has noticed, or having noticed, cares at all one way or the other.

 

[MrPixel]

I don't dwell too much on ethnicity or culture in my stories, but I have dozens of characters now, so the diversity of real life tends to follow. So I do think about it.

I usually keep my given names (and surnames, when appropriate) to sort of typical American Baby Boomer and Gen X names. You know, Bob, Bill, Debbie, Sarah, and so on. I do use names more representative of younger folks in the US, like Alyssa, Jason, Justin, Taylor, etc., to convey that they are of fresher stock than my core characters, who are Gen X.

There are a few exceptions. First is describing the principal FMC to be of Scandinavian descent, applying the normal tall, blonde, slender trope associated with that. She, however, is modeled after my wife, both in personality and appearance.

I have some names used to convey ethnicity but in only one case do I elaborate: "Sunni" is a minor FC of mixed Japanese and Caucasian descent, and I comment in the story on the unique beauty I have observed in real life characteristic of that mixed heritage.

Other names in my stories that come to mind are intended to imply ethnicity. For example, "Sidney" and "Miriam" are Jewish, and that's only mentioned in the context of Sid's being uncircumcised, to the ladies' surprise and delight. "Deion" is obvious, and I am ashamed to say it is associated with the trope; that foundation is already laid in two published works, and I am wavering on letting this character fade away in subsequent material.

Then I'm about to introduce "Carlina", the main characters' trusted cleaning lady, obviously implying Hispanic heritage. I feel she is an accurate model of the most common domestic worker in the region being portrayed in that particular series. Then there's "Carla", a server at a "favorite" Mexican restaurant. She is modeled after a real person at a real restaurant, somebody we always enjoy in that context. She's sweet to us.

In all cases, this diversity is represented in a positive, caring light, all members of the cast sharing respect if not admiration in the roles they play. It's my particular utopia.

 

[KeithD]

The story I'm currently writing has American (young), Greek (both young, thirties, and old), Danes (late twenties). and a Russian (late thirties) in it and it's set in Cyprus. I think that's diverse enough.

 

[yowser]

Well, as they say, diversity covers a lot of ground.

Outside of the fairly minimal intel you've supplied on your work (no stories here yet it appears, although sounds like you have an audience somewhere else) we don't know much about your efforts, what your goals are as a writer, what you are trying to do.

For the longest time in the anglophone world, the 'norm' was white, male, educated, relatively privileged, and a lot of what appears here on Lit fits that center still, particularly with a US-centric perspective, although the range can also be remarkable in multiple other levels of diversity: gender, sexual orientation, racial, ethnic, cultural.

If you are a reader, it's a big world out there, and a lot of pleasure can be gained from learning about lives quite different from your own. As a writer, one of my main goals is exploration, and my characters span a spectrum: males of various classes, races, ethnic variety, females ditto, disabled individuals. If I'm not pushing the horizon at least a little I don't feel like I'm learning anything. And this means sometimes doing stories that flop, which I take as price of admission.

Again, I don't know what your goals as a writer are, but if growth is one of them, writing outside your comfort zone is likely an essential effort. And here is a real good place to try things out to gauge reader interest in a relatively low stakes environment.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If you were to ask the general question "Do you want to see more diverse characters in stories?" pretty much everyone would say yes, but really what most of them mean is "sure, why not?" even though they have no preference. So long as the tits are big enough, or the characters perform the kink that the reader wants is all that matters.

Now of course the minority of the readership do like interesting stories with interesting plots and characters, and as such, diversity in characters makes them inherently more interesting, absolutely (sheesh, how many times can I use the word interesting in a sentence?).

Bottom line: you're the author so make your characters as diverse as you want. For the vast majority of readers, it really won't make much difference anyways, so just please yourself with the characters that interest you the most.

Such an innnnteresting monster deserves an innnnnteresting hairdo ...

 

[HordHolm]

I would argue that stereotypes serve a purpose. They can be a shorthand that enables readers to engage more easily with aspects of story, and they needn't be negative, per se.

I'm sure, if asked, almost everyone would desire diversity in some form or other, but faced with the reality I honestly believe that more people gravitate to comfortable conventionality than actively seek something original, unique or groundbreaking, at least some of the time.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

For the longest time in the anglophone world, the 'norm' was white, male, educated, relatively privileged, and a lot of what appears here on Lit fits that center still, particularly with a US-centric perspective, although the range can also be remarkable in multiple other levels of diversity: gender, sexual orientation, racial, ethnic, cultural.

I honestly don't think that this phenomenon is a conscious stereotype choice. I just think that it's a traditional default chosen by so many writers that put minimal effort into the backgrounds of their characters and their means. Characters' means are so often chosen for convenience. Need a hotel room? Whip out the credit card, no problem, since the character just happens to be wealthy or upper-mid class white collar professional. Need a swimming pool for the scene? No problem, characters just happen to live in an affluent neighborhood with luxury homes. You get the idea. The white, educated, privileged default is just so convenient - the quickest straightest line from intro to kink.

What about that cute brilliant Hispanic starving street artist performing next to the sidewalk cafe? We don't see him very often. He takes too much imagination to create for the average writer and just describing and getting to know him takes the scenic route from intro to kink.

 

[DrHappy]

I’d say that diversity in ethnicity and cultures is only one way to provide variety. There are many cultures and environments where inclusion of them in my writing wouldn’t be my strength. I also wouldn’t be able provide much insight to a gay culture either. Diversity for the sake of diversity isn’t a priority for me.

I tend to focus on interesting plots and situations. For my story “Untrusted,” I did do research of various customs, languages, clothing, and seasonal weather temperatures in various European countries.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

but does anyone else think that maybe readers just say they want characters to be more diverse while secretly enjoying the same formula?

What interactions have you had with your readers that lead you to wonder this?

I've never had anyone ask for more diversity. I've been criticized for having non-white characters do non-white things (like curse in their native languages), which makes me think at least some of my reader are pretty open about enjoying "the same old formula" as you say.

And, how would you go about pinning down more diversity in your characters? I personally select an image or individual to base a character on and keep them open on my desktop while I'm writing. It's been working for me so far but I'm wondering if there's anything you do to keep track of your characters?

Language is an easy one:

1. A lot of people curse in their native languages, especially in exclamations of surprise or pain or anger when they're not thinking as carefully.
2. Different languages also lead to different grammatical mistakes in English, due to people modeling their English after their native languages. You can find lists of these if you search for "typical mistakes of russians speaking english" and so on.
3. For the accents, I'd recommend having your narrator note how someone has mispronounced a particular word instead of trying to spell out their accents phonetically in every line of dialogue. You can get examples of such words from the aforementioned "mistakes" pages. Having someone mispronounce the narrator's name is also an easy trick, especially if the name has a cognate in the speaker's native language.

Food is another. You can have people share a meal, either eating their own foods together or sharing the food itself. This integrates well into romance stories because we do so much socializing over food.

Religion is a trickier one, given the site's rules against stories being "about" religion and also the potential for giving offense if done poorly. But there are some low-hanging fruit. E.g., you can mention that someone has to go off to pray or won't answer the phone until sundown or can be counted upon as the designated driver in car-centric settings.

Little touches like these can add a lot of color without that much effort.

 

[HeyAll]

For the last few years, I've put racial diversity in all my stories, mainly because it makes it easier to read.

If you have a lesbian story and the women are named Kate and Jennifer... it's easier to keep track if the names are Kate and Sanjani. The names have a greater contrast.

You can also have more to write about, like one character having pink nipples and the other having dark nipples.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If you were to ask the general question "Do you want to see more diverse characters in stories?" pretty much everyone would say yes, but really what most of them mean is "sure, why not?" even though they have no preference.

I've never had anyone ask for more diversity.

I'm not the least bit surprised. The last thing that people looking to wank are concerned with is whether diversity is being repped.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Looking at this another way, 99% of the characters here are stereotypes. With some acknowledged outliers, women are all orgasmic, none of the men are suffering from ED, STDs are unheard of, menstruation and unwanted pregnancy are unknown and so forth. How many obese, snoring, grumpy main characters with bad teeth and worse complexions are there out there? Sure, Rule 34 hasn’t been repealed, so there have to be some, but we all want stereotypically attractive.

Taking it further, one can make the argument that there’s a stereotype/trope equivalency and, especially once you move beyond mere strokers, this place is Trope City with a unicorn mascot. Wipe away ‘damsel in distress’ (and, ‘cause ‘liberated’, its flip) and Literotica would be missing 15% of its present stories overnight. Lit incest is all a wholly unrealistic trope, as is most of the interracial storytelling. To be clear, this ain’t criticism; I’m as willing to use such as anybody. Why? Simple - they work! I’m not writing for a trip to Stockholm here.

 

[yowser]

Looking at this another way, 99% of the characters here are stereotypes. With some acknowledged outliers, women are all orgasmic, none of the men are suffering from ED, STDs are unheard of, menstruation and unwanted pregnancy are unknown and so forth. How many obese, snoring, grumpy main characters with bad teeth and worse complexions are there out there? Sure, Rule 34 hasn’t been repealed, so there have to be some, but we all want stereotypically attractive.

Taking it further, one can make the argument that there’s a stereotype/trope equivalency and, especially once you move beyond mere strokers, this place is Trope City with a unicorn mascot. Wipe away ‘damsel in distress’ (and, ‘cause ‘liberated’, its flip) and Literotica would be missing 15% of its present stories overnight. Lit incest is all a wholly unrealistic trope, as is most of the interracial storytelling. To be clear, this ain’t criticism; I’m as willing to use such as anybody. Why? Simple - they work! I’m not writing for a trip to Stockholm here.

I'm not sure I want to wade into a discussion about the totality of Litfiction here, but I disagree.

I see a fair amount of non-stereotypical stories, characters who have doubts and shortcomings (sorry, unfortunate choice of words) and non-standard story arcs. A good number of folks here (I include you) generate superior tales with subtle characters and nuanced outcomes.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I see a fair amount of non-stereotypical stories, characters who have doubts and shortcomings (sorry, unfortunate choice of words) and non-standard story arcs. A good number of folks here (I include you) generate superior tales with subtle characters and nuanced outcomes.

But you have to dig hard for those stories. Writers and stories with depth are quite the minority.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Gotcha, yowser, and I won't argue too strongly. (Well, maybe just a little... )

Characters with doubts and shortcomings (pun denied at this end, too) are better characters, more interesting, capable of being written with more depth. I fully agree and my characters generally are far from perfect. Those flaws add spice to the meal.

Yet I'll stand by my comments at the macro level. 'Damsel in distress' is very popular, be it the male billionaire rescuing the single mom with a flat tire in the rain to the beautiful-but-demanding CEO taking on a young student as an intern because the student did her a small favour. (One could go so far as to label 'Fifty Shades' as D-i-D, albeit one really pushing the entry requirements.)

Lastly, re appearances, my original remarks stand. We generally write attractive people, for whatever value of 'attractive' one wishes. As somebody here remarked years ago, "If I want to watch fat, wrinkly, grey-haired people having sex, I'll put a mirror by my bed."

Have a good one and thanks for the comment.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I have an issue I thought might make for a good discussion.

My characters sometimes feel a little predictable.
As my published books focus on straight/curious/open-minded men I often seem to lean toward the same stereotypes.

I have access to a good community of readers who love the genre and whenever I poll them the answers seem to support more diversity, but when I do that the stories seem to get less attention. I wonder whether people are claiming they want more variation but secretly/subconsciously are driven toward the rather predictable "hung frat boy with muscles" or "18 year old curious twink".

I know I'm lucky to have an audience I can ask quite easily - and I don't make as much use of that as I should - but does anyone else think that maybe readers just say they want characters to be more diverse while secretly enjoying the same formula?

Do you experience that in any of your feedback?

And, how would you go about pinning down more diversity in your characters? I personally select an image or individual to base a character on and keep them open on my desktop while I'm writing. It's been working for me so far but I'm wondering if there's anything you do to keep track of your characters?

I think erotica is different to other forms of literature.
People come to sites like Literotica wanting to read stories that feed their respective kink...
If they read a story of a particular writer and it is what they are looking for. Then they will look for that writer again next time.
I think diversity within stories is wonderful. Readers appreciate reading stories that energise them, they like good writing, but if you don't tick the boxes, then they will move on.
My opinion only.
Personally, I have written in several different categories, with characters from different countries, with different backgrounds and tastes.
If I am accused of anything. It is in the LW category, where I'm told by some angry commenters. "You write the same story over and over. Why not let the man win for once."
I don't get that feedback in other categories. I think it's because I don't feed the kink they're looking for.

Cagivagurl