standing on a soapbox

[justgem]

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[artful]

i am continually shocked by the mis/under/un-informed submissives that have crossed my path.
*stepping off of my soapbox now before my fingers cramp *

be well and please take care

gem

gem,...Your post was very articulate, Thanks,...and welcome to the Forum. May I ask? What does Grv. stand for?

 

[Rubyfruit]

It all goes on in the heart, Gem.

The only "true" exchange happens there.

People experience it on different levels at different times in their lives.

It's all good and all has growth potential.

 

[Shadowsdream]

i am continually shocked by the mis/under/un-informed submissives that have crossed my path. i am not generalizing but just talking from experience of those who have come to me and my Grv w/fears, questions or concerns regarding their D/s or potential D/s relationship.

W/we visit different chat sites and forums and i often see suggestions being put forward of places to go and read to answer basic questions regarding D/s to those w/questions. yet i wonder how many actually take that advice to educate themselves.

i have "seen" submissives perform "punishments" on themselves and really injure themselves. why? they didnt think to question their Dom (who in turn didnt educate Himself on safety precautions) they just did as told because they were told.

remember the creedo of D/s: safe, sane, and consensual. if u are a submissive and reading this then its safe to assume u r capable of reading. READ. if your Dom requests an action of u then inform yourself. if there r safety measures that need to be taken then discuss it w/your Dom. consensual means u AGREE to submit. and He agrees too. (do u see the word "safe" up there?)

my Grv and i have grown together slowly into O/our D/s relationship. it didnt start out that way. W/we took things very slowly and when discovering both of O/our interest in the lifestyle He and i BOTH studied. together and separately and discussed EVERYTHING. W/we still do. Many things that i initially said no to i have changed my mind about. Why?... because W/we studied and i havent the fear i did originally regarding the unknown.

i know w/o a doubt that anything my Grv and i would participate in would be thouroghly discussed. and any safety issue would be addressed prior to including the activity into O/our relationship (eg: if my Grv wanted to use hot wax on me He would 1st test it on Himself to ensure my safety)

why participate in something that u have no knowledge of? and risk injuring yourself. just because youre submissive doesnt mean u give up your right to ask why. consensual means u agree, if u havent a clue as to how something will affect u then how can u in all reality "consent"???

submissive doesnt mean u park your brain at the threashold of your Doms door. it doesnt mean u suppress your natural inclinations and personality.

a less endangering example is... your Dom requests you to address all other Doms as "Sir". if you dont have a problem w/that then fine. but again i ask... why? i realize that every single D/s relationship is different. and what is acceptable behavior of a sub to their personal Dom may not been seen as acceptable to another Dom or sub. however if u as a sub are comfortable w/what is requested of you then great! but please know WHY u r doing things.

personally i dont address all Doms w/the term "Sir" but in my relationship w/my Grv that is acceptable. i show respect to other Doms but i submit to my Grv and He happens to like a bit of fiestiness however if W/we were in a situation and He requested it of me i would use the term. because i know He would have a good reason for it.

i could go on and on w/examples but my point is this... u r submissive. but u r a person w/a brain. and its ok to ask questions, PLEASE ASK QUESTIONS! dont endanger yourself, study, and encourage your Dom to study too. if He is not well versed in a certain area there is no shame in His taking steps to become so. it does not make Him less of a Dom. and it is His responsibility to care for you, its a responsibility u have entrusted to Him. there is also no shame in learning together, and again that does not make your Dom less of a Dom.

*stepping off of my soapbox now before my fingers cramp *

be well and please take care

gem



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http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=65261

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"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means." Mandy Patinkin ~ The Princess Bride

A wonderful topic for conversation. Thank you for putting so much effort and thought into bringing it forth.

Knowledge is an ongoing quest on both sides of the whip and learning together also is ongoing. To different degrees in each relationship, but without a doubt it takes both partners to complete the circle of what and what does not work for them.

WHY is an extremely small word with big responsibilities. I for one do think there should always be a valid reason for an order or a request that holds any seriousness.

Again it comes to communication...asking WHY..explaining WHY..often before...during and after.

The questions I would ask you is...When does the questioning become controlling. When does the questioning become avoidance...When does the questioning become Topping. When does the questioning become a valid reason to stop the Domination?

When does the lack of answers become abusive. When does the lack of answers show a lack of knowledge. When does the lack of answers become a valid reason to stop the submission?

And again..thank you for introducing this topic...

 

[justgem]

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[Rubyfruit]

... it is a shortened version of Grvdigger.

Another Six Feet Under fan?

 

[artful]

TY gem

*smiling* ty for the welcome artful.
Grv is my Dom's name, it is a shortened version of Grvdigger.
bw
gem

I am a semi-retired, long haul, over-the-road truck driver,...I have buddy who still drives,...his CB handle is,..."Grave Digger". A long story behind it,...and I won't bore anyone with the details.

 

[Red Menace]

Re: Re: standing on a soapbox

The questions I would ask you is...When does the questioning become controlling. When does the questioning become avoidance...When does the questioning become Topping. When does the questioning become a valid reason to stop the Domination?

When does the lack of answers become abusive. When does the lack of answers show a lack of knowledge. When does the lack of answers become a valid reason to stop the submission?

And again..thank you for introducing this topic...

Shadowsdream, you have such an eloquent manner of cutting right to the heart of the matter. I have no answers to your questions but am interested to hear what others think.

Excellent info for subs, justgem. And welcome to the Forum.

 

[justgem]

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[justgem]

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[artful]

gem

Artful, please accept my appologies, i believe i misaddressed You after reading the quote at the bottom of Your msg.

Please,...just call me Art,...I ask all to address me this way.

 

[Shadowsdream]

My name was taken from My web address..which is Shadowsdream...My title in the real World is Mistress Marlene...but here in lit I am an equal Dominant woman who has a high respect for Dom/mes and subs.

I am very impressed with the depth of your answers for they show a true desire to help others and to build your own understanding. I have no doubt that you are quickly becoming a voice to be heard.

ty dream, you have now provoked my thoughts in a different direction.

i would say that continued questioning becomes avoidance once the question has been answered. once answered the sub then has the choice to accept that answer or to respectfully comunicate w/his or her Dom/me their objections if they have any. if a sub truely doesnt understand the answer then communication still will be taking place. my real concern is for subs that dont have, and dont think they are allowed, that comunication.

when does it become disrespectful? i think that is for the Dom/me and sub to realize. i would hope T/their relationship was approached intelligently enough for T/them to have some inkling as to each O/others personalities.

i believe it becomes "topping" if a sub realizes that his/her questioning can be used as a tool of manipulation and they wield it in that manner.

would it be valid then for the Dom/me to then sever that relationship. yes. however ( sorry i alway seem to have a "however") consider this. repeated questioning could be a cry for the Dom/me to Dominate. a sub may push to try to find security w/their Dom/me. how is a Dom/me to know? again, communication. personality clues. the Dom/me may have an idea as to how to push back and test this. its so hard to apply this to every relationship since each one is unique and personal. if the Dom/me finds the questioning is out of ignorance thats one thing, but if its out of manipulation thats another. and i for one dont want a relationship where i feel i have to manipulate my Dom. i would rather talk any problem out honestly.



the lack of answers become abusive i think when a Dom/me deliberately wont answer yet will continue to make the demands. and again let me stress, if a Dom/me refuses to answer... the answer is still out there to be had. thats my whole point, for subs to not toss all responsibility into their Dom/mes lap. they r capable of seeking answers to questions themselves.

i would hope a Dom/me would be Man or Woman enough to admit to a lack of knowledge and seek the answer. it shows Their care for Their sub.

i believe a lack of answering can be attributed to the 2 things u have already stated. abuse. deliberately not answering for the power trip of demanding regardless just because They r the Dom/me. which is valid reason to sever the relationship. i would not entrust my safety to one who had so little regard for my emotional as well as physical well being.

or a lack of knowledge, if the sub respectfully requests the answers and points the Dom/me in a direction where the answers can be found yet the Dom/me is comfortable in His/Her ignorance then perhaps They r not the right Dom/me for that sub.

it all comes back to safe/sane/consensual. it is not safe to be ignorant in D/s, it is not sane to allow or perform acts U/u have no knowledge about, and if there is no communication then where in the world does consensual enter the relationship?

ok theres my longwinded 2 cents

btw: please correct me if i have addressed u "ignorantly" i tend to address ppl by how i perceive their names. yours is Shadowsdream which leads me to assume u r "Shadows" sub? yet your picture makes me question that assumption and perhaps u r a Domme?

bw

gem

____________________________________________________

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=65261
____________________________________________________

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means." Mandy Patinkin ~ The Princess Bride

 

[spankableBelle]

just saying hello...

gem...i was speaking to lily just the other day and we spoke of you and your Grv...~smile~

i am glad to see you both doing so well...and glad to have you here...

belle

 

[Grvdigger]

My gem,

I thought you did a very good job of saying what needed to be said in a way that provoked ppl to think but not take offense. Ty for A/all those that chose to respond.

 

[artful]

Grv

My gem,

I thought you did a very good job of saying what needed to be said in a way that provoked ppl to think but not take offense. Ty for A/all those that chose to respond.

A warm welcome to you also. I am looking forward to hearing more from you and gem both.

 

[~Dream~]

just gem...

I feel like breathing a breath of great relief!! thank you sooo much for your posts and this whole thread and ty to Shadows for her very thought -provoking questions also and for your answers to them Gem .. I appreciate all this information so much more than I can say ..You touched upon so many valid points..wow!!


sometimes I know I AM indeed questioning Artful ,just to have Him "make me feel safe",I do push buttons not always meaning to 'manipulate' but to just see what responses I WILL get!!

We definately agree with the educational aspect you mentioned also,MY Master encourages me to educate myself ..!! I feel that shows His true"caring"

I , also feel your true desire to help others and I thank you for it,from my heart..
Dream

 

[Shadowsdream]

(it all comes back to safe/sane/consensual. it is not safe to be ignorant in D/s, it is not sane to allow or perform acts U/u have no knowledge about, and if there is no communication then where in the world does consensual enter the relationship? )

I must back up this entire statement....O/one cannot consent to fantasy in reality without simply fantasizing about consent.

Without communication that is heard, and learning that progresses there is no sane or safe way to say consenting can occur.

 

[justgem]

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[Guest]

good points justgem. I hope Doms and subs alike read this and consider their actions.

I say Doms as well because I have interacted with many who think they know it all and are unwilling to question their "knowledge".

I have also seen the subs who think their only information should come from their Dom because they are "submissive".

Hopefully your thread will push people who fall into those catagories to look in the mirror.

~postscript~ a much more necessary thread than the ones I saw posted for the purpose of insulting each other, I hope to see you post again soon.