Spain: Our hearts and thoughts *are* with you

[Guest]

This thread was prompted by something Wills said in the "freedom" thread: "More than anything I detest, and I apologise if anything has been posted whilst I have been writing this, the kind of group culture that fails to mention the appauling events in Spain today. It is as if, Spain? that's not USA or UK, who gives a shit."

It is unforgivable that I did think of posting a thread earlier, but didn't. I have no excuse, and it is unforgivable.

However, the atrocious events in Spain should not be over-looked by us. It is no lesser of a tragedy than that of 9/11 in the US.

Hundreds of innocent people were killed, many hundreds more injured.

It is a sad day.

Lou

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Well said. My heart goes out to the people of Spain, especially the victims and their families.

Once again terrorists strike at the innocents. I hope that the ones responsible for this meet true justice.

 

[oggbashan]

The killings in Spain cannot be justified as a political act or as "freedom-fighting". They are an attack on people in a free democracy by those who want to destroy that freedom.

It is a reminder that terrorism is international.

Unfortunately in Europe we have a long history of attacks on "soft" targets by various groups wanting to make a point. The war on terrorism has been going on for over 100 years. The terrorists are still not winning but they destroy families, cause grief to people they do not know - who are NOT their enemies, and try to make us react irrationally by the scale of the atrocity.

We should feel sympathy for the people who have been affected by these events and shame that fellow humans are capable of such acts.

Og

 

[pop_54]

Deepest sympathies and my thoughts are with them.

The cowards who call themselves hero's have struck again.

 

[Wills]

Lou,

Thanks. I was in a bit of shock earlier. We have relatives in Madrid, I hadn't heard the news all day and had a distressed call from my daughter asking if I knew if everyone was Ok, thankfully they are.

There can be no excuse for what happened today. If you have seen the tv pictures you will have seen bombs placed at each end of a carriage, calculated to cause the maximum possible damage.

What is as tragic as the loss of life is the bigoted narrow minded assumptions that inevitably follow such events that further erode 'freedom' of thought, expression, culture with never a thought to what may have caused such extreme action to be taken. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for anyone. Whoever did this deserves the harshest punishment.

But we do need to look at ourselves from time to time and ask the question.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

Yes, Wills, I have seen the terrible pictures on the news. I've been watching it for most of the day. I have friends who live in Madrid, but I got word from them earlier that they are ok.

I do get your point about us having to look at ourselves, but I also wonder what kind of human being can do that to another?

They are desperate cowards.

It does not matter who has done this, whether it's ETA or al-Qaeda, but I am very sad to say that it could have far reaching consequences if indeed it is al-Qaeda. Spain is one of the only European nations (other than the UK) to openly support the US.

Any innocent life lost to terrorism is an abominiation. Spain has suffered for years at the hands of terrorists, most recently the Basque separatists, ETA, and the death toll from all of that terrorist action is unimaginable. The same goes for the UK - mainly in Northern Ireland.

As Og said, terrorism isn't a new curse.

Lou

 

[lewdandlicentious]

And people still profess that the wars against these type of people aren't necessary!!

 

[sanchopanza]

When you say people you mean students, middle-class lefties, middle-aged women who think protesting is just a nice hobby to have and of course hippies.

EDIT: That doesn't seem so serious now that I look at it posted. So my edit is to add that I surely hope the cowards who masterminded that massacre (those who still live) will find that real justice doesn't involve killing innocent people.

 

[Remec]

Yes, Wills, I have seen the terrible pictures on the news. I've been watching it for most of the day. I have friends who live in Madrid, but I got word from them earlier that they are ok.

I do get your point about us having to look at ourselves, but I also wonder what kind of human being can do that to another?

They are desperate cowards.

It does not matter who has done this, whether it's ETA or al-Qaeda, but I am very sad to say that it could have far reaching consequences if indeed it is al-Qaeda. Spain is one of the only European nations (other than the UK) to openly support the US.

Pierce Street, I know what you meant when you said 190 may not sound like many, and I did get your point. Any innocent life lost to terrorism is an abominiation. Also, Spain has suffered for years at the hands of terrorists, most recently the Basque separatists, ETA, and the death toll from all of that terrorist action is unimaginable. The same goes for the UK - mainly in Northern Ireland.

As Og said, terrorism isn't a new curse.

True enough...I came online this morning and Aol was flashing a News Alert label to the story, basically I enountered it shortly after it must have happened. And, my first thought was something along the line of Spain...bombs...Basque seperatists (I didn't know/remember the name ETA)...and thinking how sad it was that the Spanish government hasn't come to terms with these people by now.

But, unlike other locations, apparently ETA isn't supported by any sort of grass-roots kind of movement, or seen as an unofficial (and illegal) wing of a legitimate protest group, which has modified my thinking into more of an outrage that they would think this sort of activity would yield them anything except a renewed determination by the government...governments when you factor in the international reaction...to crush them underfoot.

The way I see it, terrorism has its uses, but only when employed against military or police targets. To wage even an undeclared war upon civilians...especially civilians who might be your own people, or at least your neighbors...is just asking for failure.

So many people have a knee-jerk reaction to terrorism and terrorists, but that's because of the scope of the modern world's level of atrocity...I think...and because most terror-based groups do not succeed in the long run.

 

[dirtylover]

re

My thoughts also go out to those directly affected in Madrid
Violence should never be the means to justify a politcal end. I will participate in peace vigils in the days to come.

 

[mtnman2003]

Heart and prayers for those slain & injured

We in the US are really sheltered from the acts of such cowards.

No amount of words or excuses can justifiy an act of pure terror such as those done today.

No glory for those committing such acts, no one can praise such low life human behavior.

I feel and send prayers of sympathy for all those families, friends, and loved ones.

Mtn

 

[minsue]

http://lightacandle.sol.dk/Images/lys4.gif

I lit a candle today. I don't know why it makes me feel better whenever I do so, but it does. Every tragedy that happens I go here and light a candle.

Light a Candle

Thank you for the thread, Lou. This helps, too.

 

[Icingsugar]

Been living in my own glass bubble today. Too much work and other commotion to care about the world out there.

But eventually, watched the late news, and had my bubble shattered.

Names lept up at me. Faces, voices. People I know, that must have travelled the Madrid rush-hour just then. This was real, and close.

WTC was a blur to me, even when it happened. A movie, terrifying FX on CNN far from home. Bali was a fictional event in a freak parallell universe. This was real. As close to me as if it was in my own livingroom.

Firing up the computer, while dialling a more analog number. Waiting the eternal boot minute, while a busy signal drones in my ear.

A spree of emails greet me. Fiends, firends of friends, ex-lovers and ex-rivals. A string of reassuring Hello's, and all are accounted for. Almost...

...a call.

Lorudes got a metal shard removed from her hand. She's fine, but she can't move her fingers. A bit hard to type an email then...

So, that was my last two hours.

Prayers if you have them, for the ones not as lucky.

/Ice

 

[Colleen Thomas]

From someone who was very close to our tragedy when terrorists struck I grieve for the people of spain and especially for the people who must pick up the pieces.

I also wish to send my prayers and whatever strength I can to the valant rescue workers. They are always the unsung heros and by their very acts of selflesness and humanity show what good we are capable of as human beings in the face of some showing what evil we can do to one another.

-Colly

 

[Guest]

Prayers for those who grieve and for all who suffer due to senseless violence.

 

[sailorm72003]

KatieLou, thanks for starting this, and to Minsue for the candle thread.

Prayers for victims and their loved ones, and joining Colleen in sending strength to the rescuers..

Sailor

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. - Thomas Edison

:Spain

~lucky

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I didn't realize that this attack came 2 and a half years to the day after 9/11.

You can only hope that maybe this bombing will so sicken everyone--terrorists included--that things like this will stop. What possible purpose can this serve?

---dr.M.

 

[Guest]

This op-ed piece caught my eye as I have read one novel by this author. Let us have one Spaniard say something here. - Perdita
--------

Another Silent Noon in Madrid - JAVIER MARÍAS

The terrorist attacks almost always happen in the early morning. Whether it turns out that yesterday's train-station bombings were the work of the usual suspects — the Basque terrorist group ETA — or of Al Qaeda or another group altogether, the murderers stuck to the usual timetable.

Spain has developed a customary response to these morning attacks. At noon, the local officials in every Spanish city stand outside the doors of their buildings, in heat, cold or rain, for a minute or two of silence. They're joined by anyone who wants to join them, whoever happens to be nearby. It makes a strong impression, this silence of mourning and condemnation, a collective hush maintained by people who interrupt their tasks or their errands to stand wordlessly in the middle of the street. Any curse or outcry against the murderers is usually quieted, because at those moments true condemnation consists of saying nothing. And no matter how many times the tradition has been repeated over the course of far too many years, it loses none of its force.

Unlike the terrorists, I get up late. From my balcony I can see the Ayuntamiento, or city hall, which stands at the heart of the capital. If I'm absorbed in writing, a sudden silence lets me know an attack has happened. Who could it have been? I wonder. Who was it this time? Some poor town councilman who was also a carpenter or the owner of a candy store? A journalist? A soldier? A policeman? A judge? A mother and her children who just happened to be going by when the bomb went off? Perhaps this time it was some firefighters who were helping the first round of victims when a second, delayed bomb mowed them down during their rescue work.

Yesterday, from inside my house, I noticed that strange silence. I went to the balcony and saw the mayor and the entire city council, those from the mayor's party and the opposition, standing in front of the Ayuntamiento in silence. There were many more ordinary people than usual, just standing there. The flags were at half-staff.

"It's happened again," I thought, and wondered who it could have been this time. But yesterday that question had no answer, because for the moment there were only anonymous corpses, more than 190 of them as I write these lines. There were at least 10 bombs altogether, at three Madrid train stations, just when the commuter trains were full of people on their way to work, students on their way to class, sleepy people who had just gotten out of bed.

It is the bloodiest terrorist attack in Spain's history, and it took place only a couple of days before the general elections, the elections we never fail to vote in — at least those of us who lived under Gen. Francisco Franco and yearned to be able to vote at least once in our lives — however little we like the political parties currently on offer.

Eventually we will find out which group was behind this atrocity. But even if the ETA isn't responsible for yesterday's bombings, the attack serves as a reminder that Spain has switched from one dictatorship to another. Indeed, it's quite evident that the ETA misses the Franco era. Back then, it could at least appear to be a "resistance" group. These days, set as it is in a democracy, it cannot.

After all, there's been no oppression in the Basque region for more than 25 years (beyond, of course, what the ETA itself exercises). There is an autonomous government and a parliament with a broad jurisdiction, and even a Basque police force, which, from time to time, the ETA attacks. The group is no different than the Mafia. Its members and sympathizers know that if they stop killing, they'll be nobodies in their towns and cities, they'll no longer be "respectable" — that is, fearsome and opportunistic.

Under Franco, Madrid suffered the same level of oppression as the Basque country or any other region of Spain, if not more, given that the central government was always here, controlling what was close at hand. Today, once again, Madrid suffers the maximum oppression. The attack could have happened anywhere, it's just that there are more people here, and more victims to fall.

A few years ago we learned, by their own confession, that the members of an ETA commando unit who shot a Seville city councilman and his wife in the back (she just happened to be strolling along the street with him) celebrated their tremendous feat with a big dinner that night, a feast with champagne and laughter. There's no reason to think that the perpetrators of this massacre and those who gave them their orders won't celebrate in similar fashion.

What a laugh: see the people weeping, see them ripped apart, see their bodies exploding or being crushed under a mass of twisted metal, see them thrown out of the train, flying, see them engulfed in flames, see how they go on dying in the hospitals, one by one. They were on their way to school, to the office, to the factory. And look at them now: what a laugh.

With time, all causes cease, and all terrorist groups disband or wither away. One day, perhaps years from now, that will happen with the ETA — and there's very likely to be an amnesty that will release its members now in prison. This is what happened at the beginning of our democracy, when all political prisoners were given their freedom, even those who had committed murder. I'm sure that the citizens of Spain will consent to such an amnesty and view it as a good thing, albeit with some distaste. But not in our innermost selves, not in our memories or our consciences. In that space that is neither civic nor political, in that personal, intimate space, we will never forgive them.

Javier Marías is the author of the novels "A Heart So White" and "The Man of Feeling." This was translated by Esther Allen from the Spanish.

NY Times, March 12, 2004

 

[Guest]

Thanks, Perdita.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I didn't realize that this attack came 2 and a half years to the day after 9/11.

You can only hope that maybe this bombing will so sicken everyone--terrorists included--that things like this will stop. What possible purpose can this serve?

---dr.M.

Nothing sickens terrorists Doc. They have already chosen, for whatever reason, be it political, vengance or religious to place themselves outside the brotherhood of man. The purpose it serves is exactly what the name we give them implies, to spread terror. And I think in some cases, that purpose may have eclipsed whatever motivation turned them in that direction in the first place.

A policeman kills when life is threatened. A soldier kills when his own or his buddies life is threatened. An individual may be driven to kill, if they feel so strongly that their life is in danger that that is their only recourse.

A murderer may kill for any number of reasons, money, power, jealousy. The terrorist kills to inflict pain, suffering and fear on as many as possible. To assume they are human, have feelings and could experience regret is to assume they never took that first step and divorced themselves from their humanity.

What purpose does it serve? None at all. Except perhaps, to remind the rest of us that we all still are human and despite barriers of lanuguage, culture and politics at a basic level we still care about our fellow man.

I don't speak spanish. I don't have any freinds in the area from Spain. But if I did today I would seek them out despite my terrible social anxiety and invite them into my home. I would cook them a dinner and offer them someone to talk to, a sympathetic ear or a shoulder to cry on. I would do for them all of the things I did for my neighbors and freinds on 9/11. I would do it because in the end, we are all more alike than different and when tragedy strikes, be it natural or man made we all become citizens of the world, if only for a short time.

-Colly

 

[Liar]

Headlines today spells out that Al Quaeda said they did it.

Either way, it sucks. And it has to stop. I wish I wish that I had the faintest idea how...

#L

 

[rgraham666]

First, a heartfelt prayer to all those killed and wounded. I don't know if God hears the prayers of an agnostic, but I have faith.

Second, I wonder what the sick bastards behind this hoped to accomplish? The point of war is not to destroy your opponent, but to defeat them. You are trying to make your opponent act in the manner you want them to. If you want to destroy anything you want to destroy their power. I can't see the goal that these people wish to succeed at. And they may think that these horrible actions make them appear strong and clever, but to me they appear weak and foolish.

Therefore, those who are not thouroughly aware of the disadvantages in the use of arms cannot be aware of the advantages in the use of arms.

Sun Tzu

Finally a little perspective. One thousand combatants and five thousand civilians have died every day since the end of of The Second World War. In The Punjab, Afghanistan, Burma, Sri Lanka, Somalia, Angola, The Congo and over thirty other places, people have been dying for decades. But we only get really incensed when it happens to "us". As The Onion put it a few years ago in one of their headlines, Five Thousand Brown People Dead Somewhere.

Are those deaths any less real or tragic than what happened in Madrid yesterday?

 

[Wills]

Liar
Everything points to Al-Qaeda.
Meanwhile the Spanish government continues to blame ETA. There is a general election in 2 days, if A-Q did the bombing then the government will lose the election for taking the USA side in a war that the Spanish people did not want.
200 people snuffed out to politics.

Shit I'm angry.

W