Space, does it really matter

[talk2024]

At the end of the day, though, does everything have to be accountable and justified. Can't we do things simply for the thrill of wanting to know more?

If not, then how sad is that?

 

[RonG]

Part of being human, is that we have endeavors that range beyond the basic day-to-day security needs. This innate curiosity to do something other than fill our bellies and cover our tails results in a richer social fabric than we could ever accomplish if our focus was strictly on basic survival needs.

It is similar to the arguments of capitalism versus socialism. Socialism ought to be perfect - all of that social energy and activity taking care of basic human needs first for the good of society. Wrong-O! Capitalism kicks ass precisely due to the fact that it allows for human creativity to do those things that are frivolous resulting in a better job of providing the basics along the way. If you ain't got good dreams, you've got nightmares.

Put this in Literotica Terms: Would you rather work all day on putting food and shelter together for others with no dreams or would you rather put a reasonable amount of food and shelter together more efficiently with your focus being on spending your evening screwing your brains out with your favorite fantasy?

Uh, yeah . . . the space program. You see, it is a dream that captivates the best and the brightest (and the worst and the dumbest, also more than likely) and encourages us to continue pushing the envelope on social advancement. Sally Struthers would do so well . . .

 

[Laurel]

At the end of the day, though, does everything have to be accountable and justified. Can't we do things simply for the thrill of wanting to know more?

If not, then how sad is that?

Well said.

 

[Ezzy]

And you are studying for what job?

I see, so you would rather search for something that may or may not be there instead of coming up with a solution to the present problem and possibly educate the current homeless to a state of selfsuffiecney

Oh yes you're a minister, that's right isn't it.


EZ http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/cwm2/sleep.gif

 

[Bobtoad777]

no i am not a minister or a reverend or a theological doctor.

i try to live each day to the next with what i have, sometimes ashamed of the comfort that i have when i see others suffering.

my problem with the space program is researching things that we cant get to at this stage. it is much better to work a step by step process just like ambroi[sp} did in his life to get to where he is.

The space prgoram should focus on a stable space station, then a stable moon base then work our way out, but as it is now we are focusing billions on the unattainable {ie. the nearest galaxy}

I also believe we should start focus some of our research inward. What about our oceans, our mountains our deserts. We have plans for making plants grow on the moon why cant we use that for our own planet and groe the desert? Why cant we produce aqua gardens.

This si what my concerns are if we can not do it here on earth first what makes us think we have a right or a possiblitie to do it on the moon or mars or pluto?

Sorry, I just see so much more possibilities for this planet if we adjust our present mindsets, learn to work with our planet not against it.

 

[talk2024]

Bobtoad,

I'm curious as to how you equate space research with working against the Earth? Why should any form of exploration come at the expense of another? It's certain that no field of scientific research, space programmes included (I think a recent programme to send a probe to the Sun was eliminated for lack of funds), ever believe that they are provided with enough funds and resources. Space programmes do generate more press but do they obtain more funds, more than Earth Sciences? I doubt it.

 

[Weird Harold]

why cant we pure research our own planet, perfect growing techniques, refertilization of dead ground, alternative energies, deep sea exploration.

With the possible exception of deep sea research, the space program is aiding and abetting all of the other things you're asking for. Directly aiding and abetting in in many cases.

Wildlife researchers now use micro-miniaturized tracking "collars" for things as small as Monarch butterflies that report through satelite links. Micro-minaturized through spinoffs of weightsaving measures researched for the space program.

Geologists are finding minerals and other resources through spectoscopic analysis from space, and going there using maps made from satelite photography.

Fuel cells are a space program spinoff -- one of the most promising of new high capacity alternate power sources.

One of the most promising projections of science fiction authors that is slowly becoming science fact, is the collection of solar power in space that is then beamed back to earth for inclusion in the existing power distibution system as your favorite flavor of AC current.

Satellite photography is being used to track and predict crop failures as well as weather.

There is more, much more, see the thread Skibum linked in on page two for more that I know of, and comments by many others.

I do agree that we need to move one step at a time. However, given the existing lead times for mission planning, it's necessary to look far beyond the next one or two steps ahead. If we ever plan on going beyond our solar system, we need to start learning about possible destinations now. If we're going to survive in space, we need to know as much as we can find out about what's going on in other parts of space so we can predict what dangers we need to prepare for in our neighborhood.

No "pure research" is ever wasted, but the space program is far less wastefull than many of the totally earth-bound sciences.

 

[Closet Desire]

Being a bit cynical this morning...

This debate is and always has been like teaching a pig to sing...it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Cheers...

 

[Latina]

The need to fit small, sophisticated computers into tiny space capsules made possible the desktop computer. The need to communicate between various suppliers of both the military AND the space program, and between the various govenment agencies involved in both defense and space, made the Internet possible. All of that created new jobs in new industries: computer chip manufacturers, companies that make the equipment used to design and test new computer chips, companies that make software to run on all those computers and do useful things that people want to do, web-site providers, companies like Cisco that make the switching equipment the Internet needs, companies that make fiber-optic and copper cable to connect computer networks, and on and on.

All of that IS helping to feed the populace by providing paying jobs, and all of that came about at least in part BECAUSE of the space program. Silicon Valley, Seattle (Microsoft et al), Oregon (Intel, Apple, Tektronix, etc.), North Carolina (Research Triangle Park), Austin Texas, and many, many other centers of high-tech would not be what they are now, and would not be providing all the jobs they are now, without the space program's contributions to creating the computer industry. Micro-electronics are EVERYWHERE, not just computers, but in cars, telephones, TVs and radios, cameras, watches, your ATM and credit card. And all those companies pay their employees to design, manufacture, test, sell, and service these electronics, putting food on LOTS of tables.

But why does the debate always come down to whether we feed people or spend money to go into space? What about the finer, nobler aspirations of mankind than just whether food is on the table? People have always asked who are we, why are we here, where did we come from. Space exploration is helping us to determine how the universe came to be here, how and why WE came to be here. Studies of radiation patterns and other things in space help determine how the big bang turned into settling of gas and dust clouds that formed planets, solar systems, and galaxies. "Reading" the outer edges of space is reading back in time to see what the universe was like millions or even billions of years ago, and how it evolved into what it is today. Even if it has no oher practical application (it does, as in discovery of new medicines and many other benefiits that others have already mentioned on this thread), I think that space exploration's cost is justified JUST in the questions it helps answer! Space exploration is helping to answer these ages-old questions about how and why we came to be. That is JUST as important as feeding people.

Christ, who is always held up as the paragon of caring about the poor, when asked why he let women anoint his feet when the cost of those expensive oils could feed the poor, is supposed to have said that we shall always have poor, but he shall be among us only a short time. The space program and the resulting computer boom HAVE helped feed many, AND they are feeding the mind, answering humanity's questions about the universe. I for one like their answer BETTER than Christ's (I also like that NASA has never told anyone to believe in them or suffer eternal damnation in hellfire).

-- Latina

 

[Closet Desire]

Only left out one thing...

Let's not forget that the Internet which we all use so freely to share ideas and opinions started out as a military project to improve communication between defense researchers, universities, and laboratories. Sort of ironic, don't you think, that it has become one of the most powerful boundary busters?

Food for thought...

 

[Closet Desire]

Not to flog a dead horse but...

I follow the space programme carefully (gotta keep an eye on those stocks) and came across this article. Sometimes it's hard for us lay people to grasp what can really be done in space. Read on...

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Space experiments help find treatment for diseases
MISSISSIPPI STATE UNIVERSITY
Posted: November 17, 2000

How on Earth can a future space shuttle mission to the International Space Station lead to a better treatment for diseases?

Chemistry professor Bill Wilson of Mississippi State University and colleagues he is working with at NASA have discovered that gravity may be the key.


Previous space-era crystals. Those grown on the ground, left, are smaller than ones grown in space, right. Photo: NASA-MSFC


Their efforts are part of what is known as the Dynamically Controlled Protein Crystal Growth mission, a $13 million National Aeronautics and Space Administration project. Other research sponsors include the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala., and the Center for Biophysical Science and Engineering at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

Wilson, an MSU Giles Distinguished Professor, was the first researcher to develop a method for predicting the conditions in which protein crystals will grow efficiently. In tribute, the process, known as the Wilson Crystallization Slot, bears his name.

He also will be the first Mississippi State faculty member to have an experiment fly aboard the space station.

He said a space shuttle flight, possibly next summer, will transport proteins associated with certain diseases -- sickle cell anemia, influenza, and diabetes, among others -- to the just-opened space station. In the gravity-free environment, the crystals will be grown to produce accurate three- dimensional structures of the proteins.

Wilson said the absence of gravity generally produces better three- dimensional crystal growth. "Earth gravity has an adverse influence on crystal growth," he explained. "Because there is almost no gravity in space, you get a better protein crystal structure."

Wilson, whose research efforts have been supported continuously by NASA since 1991, said drug companies can use structures determined from the crystal analysis for what is known as structure-based drug design. "That basically means the protein crystal is giving the drug companies a 3-D model of what the disease protein looks like so they can design their drugs to combat that disease."

Mississippi State is playing an integral part in the research aspects of the flight mission. The university's newly renovated Hand Chemical Laboratory will enable Wilson's research group to better study the proteins.

"Scientists traditionally have used trial and error to get these protein crystals," he said. "Now people all over the world are beginning to use the method we discovered to render better crystals in a more efficient manner."

MSU also is involved in constructing the actual flight hardware for growing the crystals.

"The crystallization process will be controlled automatically and totally self-contained through hardware MSU and UAB are collaborating to build," Wilson said. "The astronauts will be busy doing housekeeping of sorts on the space station and won't have the time or the expertise to deal with the crystals. With our hardware, the crystals will take care of themselves."

The first NASA flight with the crystals tentatively is scheduled for June.

"People always ask me if I am going to make the flight," Wilson said with a smile. "I tell them I don't even like to ride the teapots at Disney World!"


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To fill in the holes. Such research leads the way toward drugs that can fight viruses and cancers by allowing scientists to design drugs to attack particular proteins and leave others alone. I thought it was interesting.