Song Title or Partial Lyrics in a story

IamGnuHere

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What a the basic rules on Literotica. Concerning song titles or partial lyrics in stories?

I know lyrics are copyrighted, song titles are not. But mention of musician or band after song title. Is that restricted?
 
Generally quoting a title or a couple of lines is OK, but using a longer section of lyrics of a song still in copyright is a no-no.

In my story Jeanie the Genie I added the whole lyrics in Jeanie with the light brown hair - but that song was written in the mid-19th century and is long out of copyright. In English Lane I quote a couple of lines from the chorus of "We'll Gather Lilacs' but not the whole song.
 
Oggbashan -

I see at the end of your Jeanie the Genie story that the song is nicely formatted with stanzas - the way it should be. I posted a Letters story today with an original poem, and while it looked fine in the Publish page, it came out double spaced with no separation between stanzas. I even pasted it from a TXT file so there shouldn't have been any stray Microsoft Word formatting characters. I wouldn't think there is anything special needed to make a song/poem appear "correct". Is there some mysterious secret, or was I just unlucky? Thanks for your reply!
This seems to be something that requires some manual tweaking by Laurel. I would recommend using the Notes field when you submit the story, to flag that there's a poem and ask for appropriate formatting.
 
What a the basic rules on Literotica. Concerning song titles or partial lyrics in stories?

I know lyrics are copyrighted, song titles are not. But mention of musician or band after song title. Is that restricted?
I'm not aware of any reason why it would be a problem to mention the musician or band.

Lyrics are complicated territory. There are at least three angles to consider here:

Moderation - will Laurel let it through? AFAICT short snippets will generally be allowed, longer excerpts might get bounced. (If you are posting something long that's either out of copyright or original work, probably good to use the Notes field to clarify that, so Laurel doesn't mistake it for copyright violation and bounce it.)

Legal - will the rights owners sue you? I suspect some of the material that Laurel lets through might be considered copyright violation if it ever came to a court case, but the rights owners don't seem very interested in chasing that kind of small fry. On the other hand, stuff like automated copyright strikes have increased their capability to go after smaller violators, so it's possible this could happen in the future.

Artistic - how heavily are you leaning on the lyrics to do the job you should be doing yourself as a writer? If you want to evoke a particular mood, and you do that by heavily quoting a song which conveys that mood, it's not really your words the readers are reacting to. Referencing a song, e.g. to establish that this is the sort of person who listens to Skrillex, is different from letting it do the work that you don't want to do.
 
I've gotten away with a lot on here regarding song lyrics, I mean the sheer quantity of what I've used, so it's not clear what the rules are are. Or rather, maybe no one noticed it. It was a couple of readers who thought I was overdoing it and that these were not adding much to the story. They seemed to be right. Since then I've tried to moderate the length to a few snippets.
 
Moderation - will Laurel let it through? AFAICT short snippets will generally be allowed, longer excerpts might get bounced.
Laurel let me keep 50% of a copyrighted translation of a poem, from a Russian original. So I quoted (and referenced) every second stanza in my text, which just caught the flavour of it. Several years later a commenter provided the two missing stanzas, which worked in the end as I'd originally intended.
 
Artistic - how heavily are you leaning on the lyrics to do the job you should be doing yourself as a writer? If you want to evoke a particular mood, and you do that by heavily quoting a song which conveys that mood, it's not really your words the readers are reacting to. Referencing a song, e.g. to establish that this is the sort of person who listens to Skrillex, is different from letting it do the work that you don't want to do.
I have written a character listening to Skrillex, but they did not sing along. However, I have also written characters singing a few lines from songs by other bands, which, after a few previous discussions about using lyrics used in stories, I stopped doing so for a bunch of reasons, including the Artistic reason you give. Especially in the lead up to the Song for my Story event a few years back, where I found other ways to attempt to induce emotions produced by music. However, I don’t agree with the premise that a writer who uses lyrics is not doing the job they should be doing themselves. IRL people sing and dance to music and song, where it’s a powerful medium and even a language that by its very nature has the ability to produce an emotional response in people. I think it makes characters more real in a story if they also sing and dance. For this reason movie makers use it all the time. Of course they may get the rights to a song, and we can hear the song, but song is still used to effect mood, whether used in the soundtrack or by characters singing. Consequently, if legal aspects of using someone’s lyrics weren't a real issue, I wouldn't see an author writing a scene where characters sing an established song as not doing their job.
 
However, I don’t agree with the premise that a writer who uses lyrics is not doing the job they should be doing themselves. IRL people sing and dance to music and song, where it’s a powerful medium and even a language that by its very nature has the ability to produce an emotional response in people. I think it makes characters more real in a story if they also sing and dance. For this reason movie makers use it all the time. Of course they may get the rights to a song, and we can hear the song, but song is still used to effect mood, whether used in the soundtrack or by characters singing. Consequently, if legal aspects of using someone’s lyrics weren't a real issue, I wouldn't see an author writing a scene where characters sing an established song as not doing their job.

Movie-making is a team exercise; it's understood that a completed film is the sum of many different people within that team. The people who make music used in movies get paid and credited, or at least they're supposed to!

If I write a story, and lean heavily on Dire Straits lyrics to produce a desired mood, that story is not going to be credited to "by Bramblethorn and Mark Knopfler", and I'm not paying them royalties. It seems like a different situation.
 
If I write a story, and lean heavily on Dire Straits lyrics to produce a desired mood, that story is not going to be credited to "by Bramblethorn and Mark Knopfler", and I'm not paying them royalties. It seems like a different situation.
I get the royalties and legalities, which is one reason I don’t write the lyrics into a song anymore. Not even a line or two, which is all I ever used. But on an artistic level, I think it depends on how ‘heavily’, as you say, that a writer depend on the lyrics to create mood as to whether they’re relying on the song too much to prop up their writing. Suppose someone wrote a story titled Walk of Life about a character named Johnny who sings golden oldies, and he has action and motion and boy he can play, it would be a total rip and lazy and would probably not be surprised if lawsuits followed. Plus it would have to be damn good writing to create mood. But I think if, in a hypothetical world without legalities, an author wrote a story about a character or characters going about their daily business in life, but at some point they get drunk in a pub and during a karaoke session they belt out a line from the song Walk of Life (perhaps they’re singing about the trouble and the strife?), I personally think that would be fine in an artistic sense, because that’s what people do in real life.
 
Quotation and copyright.

In my story 'Getting Nude with Chairman Mao', I quoted extensively from Mao's Little Red Book, but the English translation specifically says that any and all quotation is allowed.
 
I get the royalties and legalities, which is one reason I don’t write the lyrics into a song anymore. Not even a line or two, which is all I ever used. But on an artistic level, I think it depends on how ‘heavily’, as you say, that a writer depend on the lyrics to create mood as to whether they’re relying on the song too much to prop up their writing. Suppose someone wrote a story titled Walk of Life about a character named Johnny who sings golden oldies, and he has action and motion and boy he can play, it would be a total rip and lazy and would probably not be surprised if lawsuits followed. Plus it would have to be damn good writing to create mood. But I think if, in a hypothetical world without legalities, an author wrote a story about a character or characters going about their daily business in life, but at some point they get drunk in a pub and during a karaoke session they belt out a line from the song Walk of Life (perhaps they’re singing about the trouble and the strife?), I personally think that would be fine in an artistic sense, because that’s what people do in real life.
Absolutely. This is connected to the concept of "transformative use" - if you chop up somebody else's work and use the pieces as part of something new and different, that gets a lot more leeway than if you're just recycling it as-is.
 
whatever you quote, it's a good thing to do the quote properly and to give full attribution of the source.
 
Oggbashan -

I see at the end of your Jeanie the Genie story that the song is nicely formatted with stanzas - the way it should be. I posted a Letters story today with an original poem, and while it looked fine in the Publish page, it came out double spaced with no separation between stanzas. I even pasted it from a TXT file so there shouldn't have been any stray Microsoft Word formatting characters. I wouldn't think there is anything special needed to make a song/poem appear "correct". Is there some mysterious secret, or was I just unlucky? Thanks for your reply!
I just used double carriage returns at the end of each stanza, and a single carriage return at the end of each line - checked carefully on Preview.
 
I have used songs as inspiration for some of my stories:

Dove Sono - Mozart Aria from The Marriage of Figaro.

English Lane from Ivor Novello's We'll Gather Lilacs

Is 'E an Aussie, Is He, Lizzie? - 1930s Foster and Allen song, I only used the title.

La Cenerentola - Donizetti about singing the part.

Lensky's Aria is sung before a duel in which he expects to die.

The Magic Flute - Fairground attraction based on the ordeals in Mozart's Magic Flute.

Vilja and Nadine - based on Lehar's song Vilja.

You who know - Based on Cherubino's aria in The Marriage of Figaro.
 
Thank you all for your sage advice.

The song title or partial lyrics. Concerns the song "Ol' 55" written by Tom Waits, but specifically the cover of the song by the Eagles.

I will probably take the less is more path. But also alert Laurel so she may decide the final coin toss.
 
The song title or partial lyrics. Concerns the song "Ol' 55" written by Tom Waits, but specifically the cover of the song by the Eagles.
I don’t want to be a bringer of bad news, but be aware Don Henley is notoriously protective of the Eagles songs and music (probably even covers) and even testified to the US Congress about copyright law, wanting it made stronger.

Edit: However, as discussed, mentioning the song's title is probably not a problem.
 
In my Call of the Dove I used lyrics as a preamble to some of the chapters. I used the chorus or a verse only, three to four lines. Then in the beginning of the chapter I gave credit to the singer.
 
Hi
I have the 2nd chapter of a story i’m writing where the main character sings a few lines of a Van Morrison while she’s dressing. Then while she’s doing housework the story references that she sang along to “the name of the song”. Is that infringing copyrights?

I am ready to submit but would be good to get clarification before I do. Much thanks!
 
Hi
I have the 2nd chapter of a story i’m writing where the main character sings a few lines of a Van Morrison while she’s dressing. Then while she’s doing housework the story references that she sang along to “the name of the song”. Is that infringing copyrights?

I am ready to submit but would be good to get clarification before I do. Much thanks!
You should be okay with that, but don't quote the whole song. Singing along to the name of the song shouldn't be a problem at all.
 
You should be okay with that, but don't quote the whole song. Singing along to the name of the song shouldn't be a problem at all.
Thank you so much for the prompt reply! The story is named "The Skipper and the Cabin Gurl" Chapter 1 published.
Chapter 2 soon to be submitted. Thanks again!
 
For me, not being a lawyer or music house, I think it’s largely question of intent.

Whatever the law may say, there’s a very small chance that Van Morrison will complain. If he did object, all the would happen is that the site would have to take the story down. The odds of, for instance, his suing and you winding up owing money, while not quite zero, are so close to zero as to not matter.

As to ethics and mortality, quoting a few lines is hardly the same as those unscrupulous creeps who steal works for here on Literotica and publish them on Amazon for a profit under their own names. You are using something people at the time would have been hearing, singing and humming with the intent of adding depth and life to a story.

“I sat down at the bar, ordered a Coors and listened to Elton John singing Goodbye Yellow Brick Road while I read the latest edition of Rolling Stone. I grinned at the story of my past week - ‘where the dogs of society howl.’”

Nothing objectionable, IMHO.
 
For me, not being a lawyer or music house, I think it’s largely question of intent.

Whatever the law may say, there’s a very small chance that Van Morrison will complain. If he did object, all the would happen is that the site would have to take the story down. The odds of, for instance, his suing and you winding up owing money, while not quite zero, are so close to zero as to not matter.

As to ethics and mortality, quoting a few lines is hardly the same as those unscrupulous creeps who steal works for here on Literotica and publish them on Amazon for a profit under their own names. You are using something people at the time would have been hearing, singing and humming with the intent of adding depth and life to a story.

“I sat down at the bar, ordered a Coors and listened to Elton John singing Goodbye Yellow Brick Road while I read the latest edition of Rolling Stone. I grinned at the story of my past week - ‘where the dogs of society howl.’”

Nothing objectionable, IMHO.
Thank you. I had much the same thoughts, but felt that due diligence was in order to check prior to submitting for publishing. I would think most artists would be flattered if not, at least thankful for the promotion of their craft. And yes outright theft as you have described from Lit. authors, is a crime. thanks again!
 
For me, not being a lawyer or music house, I think it’s largely question of intent.

Whatever the law may say, there’s a very small chance that Van Morrison will complain.
Use without permission is a question of risk, not intent. If you violate someone's copyright, which is a legal issue, you have intended to steal without permission.

I would agree that the risk is very low in the Literotica circumstance, though.
 
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I often use music to set my stories in whichever era I'm writing in, and sometimes I will imply what the song is rather than quote the title directly or any lyrics.

For example, in my story 'The Lost Hours With Annabelle' which takes place in Melbourne Australia in 1962, the narrator Jim takes Annabelle who is visiting from Adelaide out for the day. They listen to lots of music of the early 60s both in the car and on a transistor radio when they hire a rowboat on the Yarra River. As just one example, they listen to a Neil Sedaka song, which makes Jim think about his growing crush on Annabelle. He notes that unlike the girl in the song Annabelle does not live next door to him, rather she lives interstate, but that she does have angelic looks. The song can be quite easily determined from this narration, but I haven't quoted any lyrics.
 
Thanks for the great reply. Been thinking about this more, and in future will likely elude to a song, much like you are suggesting, rather than quote lyrics.. in this particular story I am/was writing it just fit the moment so perfectly, and really wanted it there to help embellish fantasy vs true life. Thanks again!
 
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