Some really bad writers on here.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KEEBLER

I'm of the opinion that most educators arent competent to teach because reading and writing and arithmetic are easy to learn if the teacher knows her subject. My 15 year old grand-daughter graduated high school last year. My daughter home-schooled her after the public school botched the job. Samantha (15) has one year of college completed, now. Samantha is not a brainiac.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Rocket Man

[

KEEBLER

I'm of the opinion that most educators arent competent to teach because reading and writing and arithmetic are easy to learn if the teacher knows her subject. My 15 year old grand-daughter graduated high school last year. My daughter home-schooled her after the public school botched the job. Samantha (15) has one year of college completed, now. Samantha is not a brainiac.

"Johhny can't read" was written in 1955. The reality of education in this country is that our teachers today are far more qualified than they were in the past.

But these qualifications come with a price, which many taxpayers have not been willing to pay resulting in ever higher child to teacher ratio's and other cut-backs. These false economies are mostly at the local School Board level.

I am delighted your daughter can provided a one on one educational experience to your grand-daughter... Just imagine if we devoted the resources to achieving this for ALL students!

As far as the US having some lock on this education thing:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_lit_tot_pop-education-literacy-total-population

The US at 27th, is outranked by Georgia, North Korea and Moldova. This is just a measure of literacy... but that is kind of basic, I think.

I have not been able to identify whether the US educational system in better or worse than it used to be... interesting question. And perhaps... some interesting answers.

I think my children had better schools and teachers than I did even though they went to school in several different regions of the US and the world, for that matter. And I grew up in an area with exceptionally good schools for the time.

But that is classic anecdotal evidence such as you present... Not saying it is wrong, I am just saying that it does not necessarily scale up to anything meaningful.

-KC

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

KEEBLER

My great-grandfather and his sibs were home-schooled. My great-grandfather graduated Ole Miss and Harvard, his brother graduated Vanderbilt PhD and Phi Beta Kappa. I'm not sure where the sisters graduated college, but they did.

My point is valid. A good education isnt rocket science or brain surgery. Teachers dont require magic tricks to get the lessons across, but they do require competence in their subject.

 

[gauchecritic]

worth quoting

My point is valid. A good education isnt rocket science or brain surgery. Teachers dont require magic tricks to get the lessons across, but they do require competence in their subject.

quite the contrary. Good teachers don't teach anything they instil a want of knowledge. Magic tricks is everything in elementary school, the kids can learn absolutely anything if they're interested.

Higher education requires a knowledge of subject because if they're learning then the teacher needs to know the answers.

On the other hand, one of the best teacher's I knew often answered questions with "I don't know. Let's find out."

 

[dr_mabeuse]

As far as having to be a writer to criticize writing, that's ridiculous, of course. I don't have to be a chef to know when food stinks. I don't have to be an artist to know bad art. I don't have to be a director to walk out on a shitty movie.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think Rico was criticizing the style and punctuation of those stories so much as he was the sheer banality of the content, the hopeless triteness of the whole second-person thing. If grammar and proofreading was all it took, we could all be great.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Nice to meet you too.

Anyway. Yes, there are some crap stories here (tell me a free site like this that don't have those). But if that's all you find, you can't have looked around much. Almost all of the best erotic stories I've read, I've found here. Lit is a popuar site because of a high ratio of better quality writing and (relatively) low ratio of crap.

Actually I wouldn't say that.

The better quality writing gets marked with "H"'s and are thus easy to find.

There's crap galore in the story archives. It's just not hard to avoid it.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Nope, you don't post stories here because you are all mouth and no action. (And because this is one of the few Web sites that hasn't banned your sourpuss ass for beng a nuisance drone.)

He's been banned from other websites? Where? JAMESBJOHNSON is fairly light weight compared to the nuisance drones on the General Board.

 

[oggbashan]

Actually I wouldn't say that.

The better quality writing gets marked with "H"'s and are thus easy to find.

There's crap galore in the story archives. It's just not hard to avoid it.

There are many good stories that don't get an "H" for several reasons:

- not a popular category so never reach 10 votes
- not a popular subject, or challenges the perceptions of readers of that category.

and most frequently
- story too long for most readers. Anything over 5 Lit pages struggles to get an "H".

I keep writing that most of the winners of the Authors' Hangout Last Place (tm) Competitions have submitted good stories. They win Last Place because the story isn't popular.

Og

 

[Weird Harold]

The better quality writing gets marked with "H"'s and are thus easy to find.

You have a very low standard of "better quality writing." I'd probably extend that to a very low standard of "better stories."

I haven't looked recently, but the last time I did a psuedo-random survey of top ten stories, there were a distinct lack of actual "stories" in every category I looked at; most of the top ten in each category are barely even vignettes and most are just disjointed sex scenes.

Maybe two or three actual stories are in any given category's top ten list and only one of them is what I'd consider "well written" from a technical standpoint.

 

[sr71plt]

As far as having to be a writer to criticize writing, that's ridiculous, of course. I don't have to be a chef to know when food stinks. I don't have to be an artist to know bad art. I don't have to be a director to walk out on a shitty movie.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think Rico was criticizing the style and punctuation of those stories so much as he was the sheer banality of the content, the hopeless triteness of the whole second-person thing. If grammar and proofreading was all it took, we could all be great.

I quite agree that you don't have to be a good writer to be a good writing critic. They are two different talents, even though they do sit on the same foundation of knowledge of what falls in the realm of "good" writing.

However, Rico gives me the impression of one who came and read one or two stories and didn't find one that hit on the exact smut content he was looking for, so he made sweeping impressions about "everything" that's here.

And my impression of JBJ is that he doesn't read anything at all here and is just here to throw bombs into the center of the room--as he himself said in another string was his purpose here.

I see no reason to defend either of these approaches.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

There are many good stories that don't get an "H" for several reasons:

- not a popular category so never reach 10 votes
- not a popular subject, or challenges the perceptions of readers of that category.

and most frequently
- story too long for most readers. Anything over 5 Lit pages struggles to get an "H".

I keep writing that most of the winners of the Authors' Hangout Last Place (tm) Competitions have submitted good stories. They win Last Place because the story isn't popular.

Og

I'd thought I had worded my comment both succinctly and carefully. Methinks I failed one of the two. Good stories are marked with an "H". That doesn't automatically mean all non-H stories are bad stories.

For instance, your unbirth story was good well before it got its H. As proof of my stance on this, you might recall I did bet on its H'ness while it was still stuck with a "3.xx" rating.

I believe there are some Editor's Choice stories that aren't marked with an "H"; logically, this is possible here.

I just didn't want to get into all of that, but since what I said is clearly construed as saying 'if a story doesn't get an "H", then it sucks,' I must go to lengths about it now.

 

[oggbashan]

My only E doesn't have an H

Og

 

[sr71plt]

My only E doesn't have an H

Og

Half of mine don't either. And when I look at my story line objectively, I think most of my better stories from any perspective don't have any of the superlative markings. But if the ones that do encourage readers to read my stories and then go on to read more stories of mine, that's all to the good and I'm glad they have the marking system.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I quite agree that you don't have to be a good writer to be a good writing critic. They are two different talents, even though they do sit on the same foundation of knowledge of what falls in the realm of "good" writing.

However, Rico gives me the impression of one who came and read one or two stories and didn't find one that hit on the exact smut content he was looking for, so he made sweeping impressions about "everything" that's here.

And my impression of JBJ is that he doesn't read anything at all here and is just here to throw bombs into the center of the room--as he himself said in another string was his purpose here.

I see no reason to defend either of these approaches.

Oh, I don't think JBJ reads a thing here. Why tamper with perfection?

I confess, I don't read much here anymore either. I'll read if I'm curious, or if I'm asked to, or if it's in the Story Discussion Circles, or if it's in a contest I'm in. But I read here for about 2 years and I pretty much got the idea. Now, I open a story, and after a paragraph or so my heart just sinks.

I don't know if it's just the font that does it by Pavlovian association or if I've just read too many, "Wake up, sleepyheads!" or "Marilyn slammed the car keys down on the counter and fumed, "Men! That's the last time I'm going out with that Herb Walker!" I just can't take that stuff anymore.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I don't know if it's just the font that does it by Pavlovian association or if I've just read too many, "Wake up, sleepyheads!" or "Marilyn slammed the car keys down on the counter and fumed, "Men! That's the last time I'm going out with that Herb Walker!" I just can't take that stuff anymore.

Is it the lack of descriptiveness with the Marilyn example that turns you off, or the male bashing?

If it's the former, I'm not sure how you could make that particular moment any more vibrant. That strikes me as a "move the effin' story along" moment.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

- story too long for most readers. Anything over 5 Lit pages struggles to get an "H".

I wonder if that might not be a fault of the interface. More than half the reading page is just ugly non-useable internet real estate taking up space. If it were a dynamic full screen width the longer stories probably would read better.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I wonder if that might not be a fault of the interface. More than half the reading page is just ugly non-useable internet real estate taking up space. If it were a dynamic full screen width the longer stories probably would read better.

It would also be nice if they were downloadable for off-line reading.

Laurel's reasoning for not doing that can't possibly be copyright reasons - I can cut and paste if I'm arsed enough to steal a story.

 

[sr71plt]

I confess, I don't read much here anymore either. I'll read if I'm curious, or if I'm asked to, or if it's in the Story Discussion Circles, or if it's in a contest I'm in. But I read here for about 2 years and I pretty much got the idea. Now, I open a story, and after a paragraph or so my heart just sinks.

I admit I'm more of a "write 'em" and "read 'em" participant myself. But when I read all of the entries for the last Earth Day Contest reviews I posted, I was pleasantly surprised, on the whole, at the level of storytelling accomplished--with relatively few technical problems (and said so in the reviews).

I think if a reader coming here can't find an author/topic line to follow that pleases them well enough, it's not really the fault of the story collection here. I think they are either research challenged; very, very lazy; make false assumptions about what they should be able to find, based on their own ignorance; or they are pretty confused about what they are looking for and perhaps should take up tatting doilies instead.

 

[sr71plt]

It would also be nice if they were downloadable for off-line reading.

Laurel's reasoning for not doing that can't possibly be copyright reasons - I can cut and paste if I'm arsed enough to steal a story.

I don't see why any form of downloading is any simpler than cut and paste, which is possible here.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Is it the lack of descriptiveness with the Marilyn example that turns you off, or the male bashing?

If it's the former, I'm not sure how you could make that particular moment any more vibrant. That strikes me as a "move the effin' story along" moment.

That kind of "drop them in the middle of the action with a hot quote" opening in fiction hasn't been done since the 50's. You still get it in the fiction in Boy's Life and stuff for young teens.

It's like getting into a car to go for a ride with someone and having them pop the clutch and knock you on your ass. You just want to get out.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I don't see why any form of downloading is any simpler than cut and paste, which is possible here.

Cutting and pasting is a pain in the ass here. You have to dodge all that fruit salad at the end of each page. A little one-click-to-print button for an entire story would be very nice. I can't stand reading off a screen.

 

[Guest]

Oh, I don't think JBJ reads a thing here. Why tamper with perfection?

I confess, I don't read much here anymore either. I'll read if I'm curious, or if I'm asked to, or if it's in the Story Discussion Circles, or if it's in a contest I'm in. But I read here for about 2 years and I pretty much got the idea. Now, I open a story, and after a paragraph or so my heart just sinks.

I don't know if it's just the font that does it by Pavlovian association or if I've just read too many, "Wake up, sleepyheads!" or "Marilyn slammed the car keys down on the counter and fumed, "Men! That's the last time I'm going out with that Herb Walker!" I just can't take that stuff anymore.

Or how about, "Gee, that was swell, Herb."

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DOC

I go to another site to read smut. The smut there is superior to the stories here. But mostly I dont care for the number of stories here, its a pain in the ass to find anything. Plus smut has a low spot on my list of priorities.

 

[Guest]

As far as having to be a writer to criticize writing, that's ridiculous, of course. I don't have to be a chef to know when food stinks. I don't have to be an artist to know bad art. I don't have to be a director to walk out on a shitty movie.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think Rico was criticizing the style and punctuation of those stories so much as he was the sheer banality of the content, the hopeless triteness of the whole second-person thing. If grammar and proofreading was all it took, we could all be great.

I do think it's worth mentioning.... dr_mabeuse is one of the few writers I've read on lit that I felt actually could write dialogue.

No offense to anyone, and I'm not trying to be all internet tough guy here. But the reality is there is a ton of downright bad writing on here, and worse, it's unaware bad writing.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

That kind of "drop them in the middle of the action with a hot quote" opening in fiction hasn't been done since the 50's. You still get it in the fiction in Boy's Life and stuff for young teens.

It's like getting into a car to go for a ride with someone and having them pop the clutch and knock you on your ass. You just want to get out.

Ohhhh, the story STARTS that way. Gotcha. Bad form, totally bad form, indeed.