Solving the dreaded one-bomb problem

I can see your wonderful personality is showing itself once again. I actually thought to discuss something here, despite your previous behavior. I won't be making that mistake again.
I'm not sure what's making you butt hurt. I'm directly addressing issues that have come up here over and over and over again, usually by folks who come in cold thinking they're the first ones who ever thought about anything there.
 
That doesn't make sense for so many reasons. In my opinion stories participating in a contest should all go into the same category to avoid biases. Like create a category called Contests and all stories participating for the said contest should go there and stay until voting is done. Readers would still be able to filter through contest stories based on tags. When voting for the contest ends and awards are attributed, then the stories could go into a category of their author's choosing and look like any other normal story. Nothing else seems fair to me, but I guess that is no wonder, all things considered. Oh look, I moaned about a Lit practice... again ;)

What does this even mean? How is the system biased?

There's no way your proposal would be workable. Think about the summer contest. How in the world would you limit it to one category? You can't. There's no way to do this. It wouldn't work for readers, and it would be a pain in the ass for writers, too. Readers by and large don't care about contests. They look for stories on the new story hub or category hubs. If I publish a story in the Exhibitionist category for the summer contest, readers will want to look for it in the Exhibitionist category, not in some category set up especially for the contest. If I cannot publish it in Exhibitionist, I probably won't want to write it or publish it at all. Your suggestion disincentivizes both readers and writers.

The main purpose of contests is not to be fair to authors. The point is to stir interest in writing stories so more stories get written. I like the idea of winning, but it's not especially important. I mainly want to get exposure for my stories. That purpose is served by having contests opened to stories from all possible categories. If I publish a story in category A and it turns out that stories in category B are more likely to win, I don't care. I still get what I want because my story gets more exposure due to the contest.
 
Side issue... having a top ten story in a category top list that's months old and watching it get steadily one-bombed out of the top ten, as in 1 new vote per day, each vote a 1*. Could be random readers actively trawling the archives for stories to hate, right? No-one plays keepie-uppie at another author's expense surely...?
 
You are one writer. And even the most popular contests only have about 100 entries (fewer than 100 writers, due to those who post multiple entries.)

Now, which is easier: Train the millions of Literotica readers' habits, who are looking for what THEY want and shift them to better appreciate what you write? OR ... change you and the less than 100 other writers to write better stories which the readers might like?

FAIR is "Here's how things work and here are the rules. Now analyze those and do your best."
You are forgetting what the issue here is. Almost EVERYTHING on Lit is about readers, and improving their experience, the amount of traffic and so on. Contests at least should be about authors. Making them fair should be a number one concern, so if it takes suffering less reader traffic on contesting stories for a while, so be it. The problem could be maybe even fixed with proper advertising on Lit main page. So yeah, I would put all stories in one nameless category. I would even publish those stories with Anonymous as author for the duration of the contest, to avoid/lessen the followers bias. So readers would vote without knowing who wrote the story. Sure, maybe some authors would try to let their followers know in a different way, but I believe it would be hard to reach most of them and some of them would possibly even point it out to the community, if they get triggered by dishonesty of that approach.
 
Totally, BUT the 1 bombs effect those with 25 votes more than those with 300?
If you have like 100 votes and a 4.90 score, one 1* would bring you down by 0.04-0.05, speaking off the top of my head. That is a big change in score, one that would easily change the line up. Even a 2* would be devastating. That obviously leaves a lot of space for some other contestant to fight his vulnerable competition. Now if you have a 4.90 score in I/T and you have like 1000 votes, one 1* would maybe bring you 0.01 down or maybe not even that, depending on rounding.
The solution to your problems might be to write stories which impact more readers enough to motivate them to vote!

We all play by the same rules. But as Keith said, some have manipulated the system by organizing blocks of voters for their stories! But those same rules apply, and you are able to do the same score manipulation.

You only have your own conscience to live with. Some just have no conscience or morals.
 
If all contest stories went into one category, I couldn't participate in contests here, because, whether I like it or not, GM stories put in any category here other than GM get trashed out of the running by the readers. The readers aren't likely to change on that.

The systems here are set up to help readers get to their category of preferences easily. Putting all contest entries in one category is counter to how the system is set up here to be reader enabling. In one regard, this is already being done, though. The separate contest list doesn't provide category. I think it should, because by not providing the category I think there are readers clicking on stories unwittingly and, seeing they aren't in a category they will read, click right back out--or, worse, note their irritation in a down vote before clicking out.
 
If all contest stories went into one category, I couldn't participate in contests here, because, whether I like it or not, GM stories put in any category here other than GM get trashed out of the running by the readers. The readers aren't likely to change on that.

The systems here are set up to help readers get to their category of preferences easily. Putting all contest entries in one category is counter to how the system is set up here to be reader enabling. In one regard, this is already being done, though. The separate contest list doesn't provide category. I think it should, because by not providing the category I think there are readers clicking on stories unwittingly and, seeing they aren't in a category they will read, click right back out--or, worse, note their irritation in a down vote before clicking out.
I think that's what happens with me. My fetish stories are 1'd because they are not incest or something more raunchy!
 
Yeah, I know... Although to my defense, I got interested only when contests, and the way they work, were mentioned. I knew almost nothing about the way they work until today.
And yet you're good with personally flaming folks who do know how they work.
 
I've been having a play with a spreadsheet to guesstimate scores.

From what I used to do in my Excel days, I'm guessing you can use Excel's "Solver". It's a Diophantine equation, A * 1 + B * 2 + C * 3 + D * 4 + E * 5 = aggregate_score * number_of_votes, A+B+C+D+E = number_of_votes
 
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Yeah, I know... Although to my defense, I got interested only when contests, and the way they work, were mentioned. I knew almost nothing about the way they work until today.

Part of the "issue" here is that you have arrived new on the site, have some strong views as to how you think it should work (and that's fine), yet it would appear you don't have much of an idea how it actually does work - as evidenced by this post. Contest knowledge: less than a day, but you reckon you could do it better? See the "problem" here?

Whereas the folk you're discussing it have been here a long time (in some cases a very long time), so have a very good idea of the intricacies of Lit, the home truths of a twenty-plus year old site, and its ups and downs. And, I suppose, we've leaned to live with it, work within the site's constraints, and just get on with it - and the forum babble is all a bit of an aside, a bit of banter.

It's not as if the AH is at all representative of anything. There's what, thirty or forty regulars (I don't know, I've never counted us), so we're a microcosm of writers. Truth is, it's not forum babble we've got here, it's a forum bubble. And that's also fine, but we're not representative writers, not at all. We're vaguely communal, for a start, whereas really, we should be up in our attics, totally insular.

Anyway, welcome aboard the good ship Literotica, and sail on into the sunset, bickering ;).
 
.I guess what it has shown to me is that, unsurprisingly, it only takes a handful of 1* or even 2* to have major effect on ratings. Not the dozens that some people are suggesting.
Yep, it only takes one or two 1s or 2s, and your story is down on its arse, hitting the pavement like a drunk bloke on Friday night.
 
Like create a category called Contests and all stories participating for the said contest should go there and stay until voting is done.

No. No. A thousand times, no. As a reader, I would NEVER click on a story in a catchall category. I know my kinks and I like what I like, and your proposal does not allow for that. So, NO. Readership in contest entries would plummet overall, and I'm afraid people like @KeithD would probably suffer because folks would click on his story in a "contest" category and be pissy and bitter that they'd landed in a GM story they did NOT want. He would see unthinking comments castigating him for posting a GM story outside the GM category, and I'm sure his scores would suffer unduly (I'm just using him as an example; GM tends to be a polarizing category).

I'm amazed that you think this would be a good plan, frankly. May I ask how much time you spent here as a reader before becoming a writer? If you lack a reader perspective, it can probably be difficult to see the ways in which the site does work well.

Part of the "issue" here is that you have arrived new on the site, have some strong views as to how you think it should work (and that's fine), yet it would appear you don't have much of an idea how it actually does work - as evidenced by this post. Contest knowledge: less than a day, but you reckon you could do it better? See the "problem" here?

Whereas the folk you're discussing it have been here a long time (in some cases a very long time), so have a very good idea of the intricacies of Lit, the home truths of a twenty-plus year old site, and its ups and downs. And, I suppose, we've leaned to live with it, work within the site's constraints, and just get on with it - and the forum babble is all a bit of an aside, a bit of banter.

It's not as if the AH is at all representative of anything. There's what, thirty or forty regulars (I don't know, I've never counted us), so we're a microcosm of writers. Truth is, it's not forum babble we've got here, it's a forum bubble. And that's also fine, but we're not representative writers, not at all. We're vaguely communal, for a start, whereas really, we should be up in our attics, totally insular.

Anyway, welcome aboard the good ship Literotica, and sail on into the sunset, bickering ;).

This, times a million.
 
I'm amazed that you think this would be a good plan, frankly. May I ask how much time you spent here as a reader before becoming a writer? If you lack a reader perspective, it can probably be difficult to see the ways in which the site does work well.



This, times a million.
On and off, I have been reading stories on Lit for more than 15 years, maybe even close to 20, but I am not exactly sure there. While it is possible that my reading experience had been uncharacteristic for Lit , I am actually speaking from it. The categories never really worked for me. While I generally like long stories, preferably with a femdom theme and with interesting characters and a lot of imagination, the natural category for it - BDSM is probably the one I browse the least, as it is such an omnium gatherum of tropes and fetishes, with rarely a sensible story in there. When they were introduced, the tags were the things that worked for me the most by far, but maybe that is just me. Also, the things I criticized in most threads didn't work for me as a reader. Maybe I am uncommon as a reader, but I DO know Lit from that perspective very well. So let's not make this about lack of reader experience, if as a writer I am indeed new.
 
Part of the "issue" here is that you have arrived new on the site, have some strong views as to how you think it should work (and that's fine), yet it would appear you don't have much of an idea how it actually does work - as evidenced by this post. Contest knowledge: less than a day, but you reckon you could do it better? See the "problem" here?

Whereas the folk you're discussing it have been here a long time (in some cases a very long time), so have a very good idea of the intricacies of Lit, the home truths of a twenty-plus year old site, and its ups and downs. And, I suppose, we've leaned to live with it, work within the site's constraints, and just get on with it - and the forum babble is all a bit of an aside, a bit of banter.

It's not as if the AH is at all representative of anything. There's what, thirty or forty regulars (I don't know, I've never counted us), so we're a microcosm of writers. Truth is, it's not forum babble we've got here, it's a forum bubble. And that's also fine, but we're not representative writers, not at all. We're vaguely communal, for a start, whereas really, we should be up in our attics, totally insular.

Anyway, welcome aboard the good ship Literotica, and sail on into the sunset, bickering ;).
I am not sure what you people understood from what was said, but I didn't speak out of ignorance in this thread. It is when one of the posters said something how contests work and another one confirmed it, that I found that approach unfair and suggested something else, because I think fairness is the most important thing in contests. It could be that I am in a minority there as well, but I am getting used to it rapidly ;)

I can understand that this new guy smartass approach irritates some of you and I am not surprised, as it happened to me many times before on different forums, well maybe even in some different lives. But however it might seem to you, I am not saying these things because I think I am smarter than you or more inventive or anything like that. I do think I am different in the sense that I've never gone along with the flow like many of you people here do. I also don't understand the fierce responses I am getting from some people who disagree with me (not you) People seem to be taking these things way too personally.
 
I can understand that this new guy smartass approach irritates some of you and I am not surprised, as it happened to me many times before on different forums, well maybe even in some different lives. But however it might seem to you, I am not saying these things because I think I am smarter than you or more inventive or anything like that. I do think I am different in the sense that I've never gone along with the flow like many of you people here do. I also don't understand the fierce responses I am getting from some people who disagree with me (not you) People seem to be taking these things way too personally.
That's the tribal thing from opinionated bastards (and we're all one of those), and I don't think you're copping the smartass thing. What you're seeing is, new guy, same grievance as the last guy, nothing new, for the umpteenth time. Some folk are more patient, is all. Once you've been around a little longer, the personalities become clearer, you put some on Ignore, and it can all be rather peaceful.

You'll be fine :).
 
But however it might seem to you, I am not saying these things because I think I am smarter than you or more inventive or anything like that.

I doubt anyone thinks you are. Your ideas are not bad, per se.

We've just heard them before. SCORES of times. They've all been done to death here, frankly. And, again, Laurel and Manu have never shown any inkling of desire to change these systems. I'm not sure why "this time" would be any different.
 
As I previously noted, the contests are presented without category in one aspect already. The master list of contest stories doesn't identify category. I would prefer that it did.
 
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You are forgetting what the issue here is. Almost EVERYTHING on Lit is about readers, and improving their experience, the amount of traffic and so on. Contests at least should be about authors. Making them fair should be a number one concern, so if it takes suffering less reader traffic on contesting stories for a while, so be it. The problem could be maybe even fixed with proper advertising on Lit main page. So yeah, I would put all stories in one nameless category. I would even publish those stories with Anonymous as author for the duration of the contest, to avoid/lessen the followers bias. So readers would vote without knowing who wrote the story. Sure, maybe some authors would try to let their followers know in a different way, but I believe it would be hard to reach most of them and some of them would possibly even point it out to the community, if they get triggered by dishonesty of that approach.

Many authors here have distinctive voices, recurring themes, and sometimes recurring characters, all of which are well known to their readers. How does one anonymise that? If an author is well known for writing stories set in Ireland featuring tall blondes, are they allowed to enter a contest story set in Ireland featuring tall blondes? Or is that signalling to their readers?

If an author is willing to cheat by letting their followers know, what stops them from cheating by falsely accusing another author of doing so?
 
Oh, the 5s work wonders
Many authors here have distinctive voices, recurring themes, and sometimes recurring characters, all of which are well known to their readers. How does one anonymise that? If an author is well known for writing stories set in Ireland featuring tall blondes, are they allowed to enter a contest story set in Ireland featuring tall blondes? Or is that signalling to their readers?

If an author is willing to cheat by letting their followers know, what stops them from cheating by falsely accusing another author of doing so?

The first time one of my characters says "Jeezum Crow", I'm outed.
 
I've been having a play with a spreadsheet to guesstimate scores. There will be a sufficiently sophisticated means of calculating the actual spread but it's interesting all the same... in a geeky way. I'm not being paid so this is 'back of postcard' Excel and bit of playing around. I could only get it spot on through luck, but I'm within ±0.2/aggregated score ie number of votes x rating

The solution isn't unique though. Here are a couple other ways you could get a score of 4.34 from 35 stories:

_____________5*__4*__3*__2*__1* __ Total *s
your solution:......21......7.......5.......2.....0.........152
slight tweak:........21......7.......6......0......1..........152
lotta ones:...........29......0......0.......1......5.........152............(grrr, I wish that tables were working again)

Your solution gives the smoothest distribution, perhaps, but we can't say for sure that it is necessarily the distribution the story actually received. One thing we can say is the maximum number of 1* votes that the story could have received. In this case it's 5, but that could only have happened if almost all the other votes were 5*s.

If only the site provided the actual vote distributions, the way Home Depot does, just think how much geekier these discussion could be.
 
If only the site provided the actual vote distributions, the way Home Depot does, just think how much geekier these discussion could be.

I can one-up your geekness. I have a computer program that calculates the possible combinations of a given number of votes that would arrive at a specified rating. For 35 votes and a score of 4.34, it found 150 unique combinations. The combination that comes closes to the average is 22x5*, 7x4*, 3x3*, 2x2* and 1x1*
 
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