So when is this "Honest" discussion regarding race relations goint to occur?

[Jennifer]

Well, this was an interesting read on a rather dull night spent preparing for Thanksgiving. My takeaways:

* There are a lot of white men on this forum who truly believe they are superior to black people in every way except physicality. And that's cool, I guess, but they should just own it, and stop with the obfuscation. JBJ's a complete dick, and everyone should have him on ignore, but at least he doesn't try to hide his racism. He's proud of it. Man up, boys.

* Not all Playgrounders are stupid. Some of them are capable of having conversations about current events and relevant topics, but the flirting does tend to get out of hand. I'm not going to write them off yet, though.

* That Possum guy's really dumb, but thinks he's smart.

* Kitty has a great rack.

* I really need to send in the DNA kit I ordered from Ancestry, because I'm beginning to believe I might have been deceived about my Cherokee heritage. Or was it Creek? I can't remember.


P.S. Why is it "believe" and "deceive"? Makes no spelling sense.

This post makes me thankful for you

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Query answered that already. But if you need my thoughts, here they are.

Young black men began to embrace crime as a way of life back in the 70's and 80's. I attribute that to a whole rash of "Blackploitation" films that Hollywood was churning out romanticizing the criminal lifestyle. And that morphed into 'gangsta' rap' in the 90's and beyond. The welfare destruction of the black family saw a host of young black men out on the streets, time on their hands, and no male role models beyond the aforementioned pop culture derived 'criminal art.' And just who needs an education to run a little dope from here to there?

As minors (all minors, not just black) they learned that the doors of justice are revolving. No matter how many times they were picked up (short of murder) they were back out on the street again with little more than a hand slap. The legal system was/is viewed as a joke, a nuisance, beyond contempt. Hell of an attitude to grow up with.

So, it's cultural. It's endemic to the native born black community. And as I, and others, have opined in this thread, the cops can't change a culture, the politicians can't change a culture, and the interfering white liberal can't change a culture. Cultures can only be changed from within. The black community is going to have to solve this, no one else can because no one else has any credibility.

Ishmael

You expect black people to be responsible for black people.

Do you expect white people to be responsible for white people?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Query answered that already. But if you need my thoughts, here they are.

Young black men began to embrace crime as a way of life back in the 70's and 80's. I attribute that to a whole rash of "Blackploitation" films that Hollywood was churning out romanticizing the criminal lifestyle. And that morphed into 'gangsta' rap' in the 90's and beyond. The welfare destruction of the black family saw a host of young black men out on the streets, time on their hands, and no male role models beyond the aforementioned pop culture derived 'criminal art.' And just who needs an education to run a little dope from here to there?

As minors (all minors, not just black) they learned that the doors of justice are revolving. No matter how many times they were picked up (short of murder) they were back out on the street again with little more than a hand slap. The legal system was/is viewed as a joke, a nuisance, beyond contempt. Hell of an attitude to grow up with.

So, it's cultural. It's endemic to the native born black community. And as I, and others, have opined in this thread, the cops can't change a culture, the politicians can't change a culture, and the interfering white liberal can't change a culture. Cultures can only be changed from within. The black community is going to have to solve this, no one else can because no one else has any credibility.

Ishmael

And given how much trouble that caused and how quickly you don't think it's at all if not intentional at least neglectful that nobody looked over and said "hmm, that whole no able bodied men in the house if you're getting welfare" is simply not working out according to plan?

The legal system was viewed as the enemy, not as a joke but as a direct enemy. You're talking about people who's parents still remembered the cops coming out against THEM that shit doesn't go away overnight it probably won't be gone until my hypothetical kids are grown. Assuming you think the South ever got over the War of Northern Aggression (it hasn't, not socially, not economically, not emotionally) that easily took longer than this gap.

It's funny though, conservatives switch back and forth at will on this last part based on whatever is most convienent.

 

[Kitty]

Here's the thing, him being a criminal had no bearing on it by every report we've heard. So a cop did not over-zealously kill a criminal. He killed a black kid. There is actually an important difference. See in order for him to be a criminal in anyway that MATTERS to this conversation Brown would have to have heard the report and recognized him. Which unless that's changed recently the report went out AFTER.

The same way that if I happen to run out of my house and shoot the first Muslim I see because he says something I think sounds terroristy and he turns out to be the leader of ISIS well goody for me but that's notwhy he's dead.

If you would've stopped ignoring everything I've written you wouldn't be telling me this; you'd see that I've said the same thing, and less verbosely at that. So are you saying Wilson killed someone who he mistook for a criminal? Otherwise I don't understand the first paragraph's significance. And Brown happened to be black but at the end of the day, he was a criminal. If he hadn't been jerking around he wouldn't have been approached. Now the thread has turned into a debate on why it's a coincidence (or something) that Brown was black and committing crime, and then killed for it. Yes, it sucks, but come on, we're going in circles here. Also, it would only be a true tragedy if Brown was the wrong guy. If he was or wasn't, kindly let me know.

 

[Ishmael]

You expect black people to be responsible for black people.

Do you expect white people to be responsible for white people?

Do you expect white people to be responsible for black people?

Ishmael

 

[Lorilei]

This post makes me thankful for you

 

[Sean Renaud]

If you would've stopped ignoring everything I've written you wouldn't be telling me this; you'd see that I've said the same thing, and less verbosely at that. So are you saying Wilson killed someone who he mistook for a criminal? Otherwise I don't understand the first paragraph's significance. And Brown happened to be black but at the end of the day, he was a criminal. If he hadn't been jerking around he wouldn't have been approached. Now the thread has turned into a debate on why it's a coincidence (or something) that Brown was black and committing crime, and then killed for it. Yes, it sucks, but come on, we're going in circles here. Also, it would only be a true tragedy if Brown was the wrong guy. If he was or wasn't, kindly let me know.

I apologize that I don't actually remember each and every word you've written including the parts where you offered to take pictures of your butt or started rattling off about which specific tribe you think your family might maybe be descended from.

No, at the end of the day he was not a criminal. His "jerking" around consisted of Jay Walking. Brown WAS the wrong guy because Jay walking isn't even an offense that cops usually say shit about even TO black people. Where I live as long as you forget to two finger salute you can jay walk right in front of the cops and at worst they might tell you to come over and don't you think it's kinda stupid to do that. To which you promptly shrug, tell you weren't thinking and they tell you to get the fuck on.

For that matter strong arming might warrent shooting someone while it's actively happening, and if you REALLY want to stretch it if it's your stuff that's being walked away with. (Though really if you shoot someone who's running away with your tv you should admit you just wanted to shoot someone) but certainly not later by a cop.

So no he was in no way the right guy.

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

Do you expect white people to be responsible for black people?

Ishmael

I’m don’t intend to address all racial problems just the point made in the op about 13% committing 50% of the violent crimes. You and the rest of society deserve to be safe from criminals. Law abiding black people who are economically forced to live in high crime neighborhoods deserve to be safe too. Everyone, including me wants violent people off the streets. The problem is that no one wants to deal with the ramifications of the results of removing criminals from society. Most people who go to prison will eventually be released. Few people come out better when they went in. Life is cheap in prison and they have a set of values that most people have no idea.

The reason that the hood is so violent is because those values come out of prison. We pay tax dollars for a failed correctional system that impacts society in ways that no one wants to recognize.

As for the rest, it didn’t start in the 70s because of black exploitation films. It started when Jim Crow was legally dismantled and resurrected by Nixon and Reagan’s miserable failure of a drug war.

Just like the homeless, people want them to just go away. You can't incarcerate people and think that that is the end of the problem.

 

[smoothg103rd]

Do you expect white people to be responsible for black people?

Ishmael

It's their fault we are here. So yeah. Lol jk

 

[Ishmael]

It's their fault we are here. So yeah. Lol jk

Hey, they tried to send you back almost 200 years ago but no one wanted to go.

I remember a sports writer that asked Ali what he thought of Africa after the 'rumble in the jungle' with Frazier. He said, "Thank God my grand daddy got on that boat."

Ishmael

 

[Kitty]

I apologize that I don't actually remember each and every word you've written including the parts where you offered to take pictures of your butt or started rattling off about which specific tribe you think your family might maybe be descended from.

No, at the end of the day he was not a criminal. His "jerking" around consisted of Jay Walking. Brown WAS the wrong guy because Jay walking isn't even an offense that cops usually say shit about even TO black people. Where I live as long as you forget to two finger salute you can jay walk right in front of the cops and at worst they might tell you to come over and don't you think it's kinda stupid to do that. To which you promptly shrug, tell you weren't thinking and they tell you to get the fuck on.

For that matter strong arming might warrent shooting someone while it's actively happening, and if you REALLY want to stretch it if it's your stuff that's being walked away with. (Though really if you shoot someone who's running away with your tv you should admit you just wanted to shoot someone) but certainly not later by a cop.

So no he was in no way the right guy.

Ahem. Adding photos of my butt only came up when the guy kept calling me tits. So there's that. And the "maybe descended from" wasn't even the fucking topic, that was query. I know my fucking tribe. And it seems you know everything I said, huh?

Way to start off a mature debate.

Anyway:

I don't know where the tone is coming from, like I've been sitting here all day agreeing that Brown is an animal who needed to be put down. I've been on the other side the whole time. Whatever.

 

[smoothg103rd]

Hey, they tried to send you back almost 200 years ago but no one wanted to go.

I remember a sports writer that asked Ali what he thought of Africa after the 'rumble in the jungle' with Frazier. He said, "Thank God my grand daddy got on that boat."

Ishmael

I won't go there permanently. But I would like to visit one day.

 

[Kitty]

Hey, they tried to send you back almost 200 years ago but no one wanted to go.

I remember a sports writer that asked Ali what he thought of Africa after the 'rumble in the jungle' with Frazier. He said, "Thank God my grand daddy got on that boat."

Ishmael

I'm sure you're excluding context And considering the time period Ali was around and able to speak, I'm sure he had a point. If anything, it was a reflective statement about what people have turned the place into.

And there were people born into slavery. It's not like they were born with the mentality of understanding freedom. They were born into it. Raised in a barn and made to do ungodly things or else. Fucking asshole always has to make a joke about shit. Scourge.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Ahem. Adding photos of my butt only came up when the guy kept calling me tits. So there's that. And the "maybe descended from" wasn't even the fucking topic, that was query. I know my fucking tribe. And it seems you know everything I said, huh?

Way to start off a mature debate.

Anyway:

I don't know where the tone is coming from, like I've been sitting here all day agreeing that Brown is an animal who needed to be put down. I've been on the other side the whole time. Whatever.

Honestly as I've noticed and it kinda irks me to come to the defense of the righties around here but it's because you're WAY to sensitive.

I mean WAY to sensitive. Like anybody doesn't agree with you 100% they are an attack dog. So on behalf of myself and anybody else you've snapped at today I'm going to make a request. And then I'm going to answer for you you stupid fucking cow.

http://i.imgur.com/FSoec3w.jpg​

And ask anybody, I'm not really one of the mean ones around here, when someone is being a sufficient cuntwaffle to get me offended on behalf of others they have accomplished a great deal. Especially when I agree with them and don't agree with the people that I'm offended on behalf of. That's some straight up legendary BS.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And ask anybody, I'm not really one of the mean ones around here, when someone is being a sufficient cuntwaffle to get me offended on behalf of others they have accomplished a great deal. Especially when I agree with them and don't agree with the people that I'm offended on behalf of. That's some straight up legendary BS.

It's ok, she just iggy the mean ones

 

[smoothg103rd]

Honestly as I've noticed and it kinda irks me to come to the defense of the righties around here but it's because you're WAY to sensitive.

I mean WAY to sensitive. Like anybody doesn't agree with you 100% they are an attack dog. So on behalf of myself and anybody else you've snapped at today I'm going to make a request. And then I'm going to answer for you you stupid fucking cow.

http://i.imgur.com/FSoec3w.jpg​

And ask anybody, I'm not really one of the mean ones around here, when someone is being a sufficient cuntwaffle to get me offended on behalf of others they have accomplished a great deal. Especially when I agree with them and don't agree with the people that I'm offended on behalf of. That's some straight up legendary BS.

Lol..

 

[Kitty]

Honestly as I've noticed and it kinda irks me to come to the defense of the righties around here but it's because you're WAY to sensitive.

I mean WAY to sensitive. Like anybody doesn't agree with you 100% they are an attack dog. So on behalf of myself and anybody else you've snapped at today I'm going to make a request. And then I'm going to answer for you you stupid fucking cow.

http://i.imgur.com/FSoec3w.jpg​

And ask anybody, I'm not really one of the mean ones around here, when someone is being a sufficient cuntwaffle to get me offended on behalf of others they have accomplished a great deal. Especially when I agree with them and don't agree with the people that I'm offended on behalf of. That's some straight up legendary BS.

I... stopped at cow. Where did I say you attacked? I sensed a combative undertone because I'm, contrary to popular belief, not a dumbass. You immediately resorting to aggressive insults confirms that you've implicitly been attacking me anyway. So despite your fucking spiel, I was right in the beginning.

 

[Lorilei]

I want SeanR and Kitty to get along. I think they're coming from the same place, but communicating badly.

It's possible that I'm buzzed, but I really don't think so.

 

[Ishmael]

I won't go there permanently. But I would like to visit one day.

There are some places I'd like to visit over there as well. Not the jungle, I've had enough of jungles.

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

I want SeanR and Kitty to get along. I think they're coming from the same place, but communicating badly.

It's possible that I'm buzzed, but I really don't think so.

We are basically coming from the same place. She however is one of those people who thinks if I say "you're 95% correct but I think you neglected this detail" that it's combative undertone and I'm simply not in the mood to take anybody's shit.

And while I think no argument can be made that I'm not one of the overall kinder posters I'm also quite capable of incredible cruelty. . .mild cruelty. I have to remember on the GB and I literally as a black man could not say the kinds of things to the Grand Wizard of the KKK that Busybody says casually everyday. I was raised better than that.

 

[Ishmael]

I’m don’t intend to address all racial problems just the point made in the op about 13% committing 50% of the violent crimes. You and the rest of society deserve to be safe from criminals. Law abiding black people who are economically forced to live in high crime neighborhoods deserve to be safe too. Everyone, including me wants violent people off the streets. The problem is that no one wants to deal with the ramifications of the results of removing criminals from society. Most people who go to prison will eventually be released. Few people come out better when they went in. Life is cheap in prison and they have a set of values that most people have no idea.

The reason that the hood is so violent is because those values come out of prison. We pay tax dollars for a failed correctional system that impacts society in ways that no one wants to recognize.

As for the rest, it didn’t start in the 70s because of black exploitation films. It started when Jim Crow was legally dismantled and resurrected by Nixon and Reagan’s miserable failure of a drug war.

Just like the homeless, people want them to just go away. You can't incarcerate people and think that that is the end of the problem.

So are you trying to tell us that blacks are born drug dealers, or that Nixon/Reagan made them that way?

Ishmael

 

[Kitty]

We are basically coming from the same place. She however is one of those people who thinks if I say "you're 95% correct but I think you neglected this detail" that it's combative undertone and I'm simply not in the mood to take anybody's shit.

And while I think no argument can be made that I'm not one of the overall kinder posters I'm also quite capable of incredible cruelty. . .mild cruelty. I have to remember on the GB and I literally as a black man could not say the kinds of things to the Grand Wizard of the KKK that Busybody says casually everyday. I was raised better than that.

you're black?

 

[Kitty]

So are you trying to tell us that blacks are born drug dealers, or that Nixon/Reagan made them that way?

Ishmael

the latter.

 

[Kitty]

I want SeanR and Kitty to get along. I think they're coming from the same place, but communicating badly.

It's possible that I'mbasted, but I really don't think so.

Stop being silly and get back in the oven so I can eat you while the juices drool down my face.

 

[Sean Renaud]

So are you trying to tell us that blacks are born drug dealers, or that Nixon/Reagan made them that way?

Ishmael

That before the War on Drugs we got away with it largely and that whites still do.

you're black?

For what it matters. I only bring it up when it's in someway relevant, though I guess one could argue THAT was stretch of relevant if one wanted to.