So when is this "Honest" discussion regarding race relations goint to occur?

[possum123]

Yes. It sounds perfectly right.

They did need it whether or not they wanted it or not.

But why wouldn't Congress be exempt? They are the ruling class of rich people.

Now you are beginning to understand.
The U.S. is not any different than any other country.
Just another form of communism.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Now you are beginning to understand.
The U.S. is not any different than any other country.
Just another form of communism.

I've always understood that. Though it's not really communism but whatever I'm no where near patient enough to start educating you on that kind of nuance.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

and none of your kind will get a job and work to support yourself. you are a whore with a hand out looking for entitlements

you are less than a man

None of the conservative GB regulars can do it, since they don't understand what it's like to be a minority, how to live as someone that has no privilege when it comes to the basic necessities of every day life in America. to them, ALL minorities are lazy slobs sucking on the tit of the government.

 

[Que]

He doesn't understand that, before the ACA, we already were paying for others' healthcare, through Medicare, Medicaid, and paying for the ER trips by those people who couldn't afford it, and that's mostly old white folks too stupid to go see a doctor before their conditions worsened.

None of that changed with the ACA. Emergency room visits are up, not down.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We both know the answer to that one. If you don't toe the line of keeping the black man (and other selected groups) in a state of perpetual poverty and dependence then you are a racist (or homophobe, or misogynist depending on the group under discussion).

Moynihan, who was one of the architects of the "War on Poverty" looked back on the social destruction it had caused and remarked that it was a case of "defining deviancy downwards." Would that all liberals be that intellectually honest.

Ishmael

The black and white thinking of the altruist. My thoughts and words are directed by my compassion (born of superior intellect). Since I am fighting for the greater good and you cannot seem to see that, then you are my enemy (the enemy of 'progress') and your motives and thoughts must come from dark, hateful place.

 

[RjThoughts]

Jen has to come up with a new shtick, this "your kind need to get jobs" bullshit makes 'her' look more and more like the crazy cat lady of the trailer park.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Man you guys really have trouble staying on topic if you don't like the answers....but that is an entirely other matter. I was not referring to your use of latin; I was referring to several other misspelled words. I would point them out but it is too painful to read your babble even once.

You would point them out, but they are not there. You haven't gone near the topic. You haven't even tried to have a discussion. You are everything that has gone wrong with the Left in a nutshell, the inability to communicate with anyone who may have a different purview than yours.

 

[RjThoughts]

None of that changed with the ACA. Emergency room visits are up, not down.

Never said anything about numbers going down or up.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

None of the conservative GB regulars can do it, since they don't understand what it's like to be a minority, how to live as someone that has no privilege when it comes to the basic necessities of every day life in America. to them, ALL minorities are lazy slobs sucking on the tit of the government.

We understand what it is to define yourself as a group member; to be so focused on the past and your ties to it that you forget to become an individual. You are the reason I stopped posting in the NFL thread because you approach it as a tribal matter also, your esteem comes from the idea that you are a super fan and everyone else cannot measure up to your acumen, just the same as you do with race.

I am an individual. My group loyalty is to myself, not to the tribe of my grandmother, the tribe of my grandfather or the Swiss-German roots of my father's family. It does not make me a better person to focus on my races when I step back and realize, hey, we humans have less diversity than the world-wide population of chimpanzees. It certainly has not made you a better person, but it has caused you to assume both the mantle of unassailable victim and group spokesman.

There can be no honest conversation about sports with you anymore than there can be an honest conversation about race with you. It is people like you and Joey that make this conversation so fucking toxic. Because you assholes are so self-assuredly right, then you can simply talk down to and at anyone who dares to have another train of thought on the issue.

 

[Que]

Never said anything about numbers going down or up.

I didn't say that you did. I am saying that the tired justification about emergency room visits was never real. It was only about having some of those visits compensated at taxpayer expense to the benefit of hospitals and insurance companies.

People that make poor decisions about their health are in no way having their behavior modified by the law, if anything it incentives more of the same.

Toubs thread on the subject is maybe a bit hyperbolic at (85% can't be fixed) but the point is apt.

If hypothetically you gave the administration a blank check to "fix" all of the things about it that conflict with each-other and cause perverse incentives, and inefficiencies? It could not be done. It is a Gordian knot of immense fail. It couldn't possibly work for any number of reasons. It was never designed to work because it cannot work. The point of it was to be a Gordian knot impossible to undo without simply dropping the whole nightmare and adopting single payer. It was a gambit, and Democrats bit hard on the gambit.

Massachusetts was a scam to get federal money for the state to pay for health-care.

The US cannot turn to a higher authority to get magic boatloads of money. Tax it, print i,t borrow it. It is all the same. Less capital for growth.

 

[Sean Renaud]

None of that changed with the ACA. Emergency room visits are up, not down.

Not that it's early enough to expect to see results but I assume you have stats on that?

I didn't say that you did. I am saying that the tired justification about emergency room visits was never real. It was only about having some of those visits compensated at taxpayer expense to the benefit of hospitals and insurance companies.

People that make poor decisions about their health are in no way having their behavior modified by the law, if anything it incentives more of the same.

Toubs thread on the subject is maybe a bit hyperbolic at (85% can't be fixed) but the point is apt.

If hypothetically you gave the administration a blank check to "fix" all of the things about it that conflict with each-other and cause perverse incentives, and inefficiencies? It could not be done. It is a Gordian knot of immense fail. It couldn't possibly work for any number of reasons. It was never designed to work because it cannot work. The point of it was to be a Gordian knot impossible to undo without simply dropping the whole nightmare and adopting single payer. It was a gambit, and Democrats bit hard on the gambit.

Massachusetts was a scam to get federal money for the state to pay for health-care.

The US cannot turn to a higher authority to get magic boatloads of money. Tax it, print i,t borrow it. It is all the same. Less capital for growth.

Okay lets narrow this down, how is going to the ER being incentivized by the ACA?

 

[RobDownSouth]

I am an individual. My group loyalty is to myself, not to the tribe of my grandmother, the tribe of my grandfather or the Swiss-German roots of my father's family. It does not make me a better person to focus on my races when I step back and realize, hey, we humans have less diversity than the world-wide population of chimpanzees. It certainly has not made you a better person, but it has caused you to assume both the mantle of unassailable victim and group spokesman.

Blah blah blah....AJ is the ultimate situational Native American.

He dutifully trots out his heritage whenever there is a chance for "victimhood" to be claimed. Otherwise he's a rugged bootstrappy Murican (although his squaw is now the primary breadwinner in the famiy, owing to his "atrial fibrillation" episodes that have him permanently medically disabled at the tender age of 56).

 

[Que]

Not that it's early enough to expect to see results but I assume you have stats on that?



Okay lets narrow this down, how is going to the ER being incentivized by the ACA?

Because more people have a "card' of some sort that makes then feel entitled to do so. Some from increas in medicaid. Most hospitals will have the forms to enroll you in Access or Medi-cal on the spot. I am sure they do the same to get you onto some insurance plan with "no preexisting conditions." There is no need to take the time and spend the money or stick with a job you hate to get insurance anymore.

Wait till it is serious, go to the ER, let their billing department help you with the paperwork.need to know about whether the incentive to do so is there or not is look at the results, did the number go down even with more people having insurance or did it go up? It went up.

All you

 

[Sean Renaud]

Because more people have a "card' of some sort that makes then feel entitled to do so. Some from increas in medicaid. Most hospitals will have the forms to enroll you in Access or Medi-cal on the spot. I am sure they do the same to get you onto some insurance plan with "no preexisting conditions." There is no need to take the time and spend the money or stick with a job you hate to get insurance anymore.

Wait till it is serious, go to the ER, let their billing department help you with the paperwork.need to know about whether the incentive to do so is there or not is look at the results, did the number go down even with more people having insurance or did it go up? It went up.

All you

Well they ARE entitled. I want to know where you get the idea that ER specifically is up rather than people who have those cards and feeling entitled coming in a timely fashion. The rest of what you posted is good.

Again, where are you getting these numbers? I have not seen them. IF they are then step two needs to be a massive education drive on par with the don't smoke campaigns to explain to people how to better work the system. IT doesn't surprise me that people who've never had proper access might not know how to use it but that's our fault.

 

[Que]

Well they ARE entitled. I want to know where you get the idea that ER specifically is up rather than people who have those cards and feeling entitled coming in a timely fashion. The rest of what you posted is good.

Again, where are you getting these numbers? I have not seen them. IF they are then step two needs to be a massive education drive on par with the don't smoke campaigns to explain to people how to better work the system. IT doesn't surprise me that people who've never had proper access might not know how to use it but that's our fault.

I don't have the cite handy but ER visits are up. Which means either people that did without entirely are now coming into the ER..(not altogether a bad thing in a polite, compassionate society) or, it is just more of the same old problem, people using the ER only after waiting on the sidelines instead of going and seeing a general practicioner or nurse practioner early before they are in such distress.

My point is only that the ER reduction didn't happen and likely wont happen.

People that neglect their health do so for lots of different reasons.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Mostly it's cus their poor. But like I said you are right then our next step is getting the information out there.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

... and they can usually safely ignore the mandate.



"If a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house."
Famous "Activist" Constitutional Law Professor Barack Hussein Obama, 2008

 

[Que]

Mostly it's cus their poor. But like I said you are right then our next step is getting the information out there.

Information is out there about mammography, prostate exams, healthy eating, smoking cessation, diabetes screening.

If information was going to help..(and it might, marginally) that is something that could have been done whether ACA was a thing, or not.

 

[Kitty]

Information is out there about mammography, prostate exams, healthy eating, smoking cessation, diabetes screening.

If information was going to help..(and it might, marginally) that is something that could have been done whether ACA was a thing, or not.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/images/smilies/yawn.gifWhat're you guys talking about now?

 

[Ishmael]

I don't have the cite handy but ER visits are up. Which means either people that did without entirely are now coming into the ER..(not altogether a bad thing in a polite, compassionate society) or, it is just more of the same old problem, people using the ER only after waiting on the sidelines instead of going and seeing a general practicioner or nurse practioner early before they are in such distress.

My point is only that the ER reduction didn't happen and likely wont happen.

People that neglect their health do so for lots of different reasons.

It's going to get a LOT worse.

Americans delaying health care.

The astronomical increases in co-pays and deductibles are the primary reason. There are no racial preferences, everyone is getting fucked.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

Information is out there about mammography, prostate exams, healthy eating, smoking cessation, diabetes screening.

If information was going to help..(and it might, marginally) that is something that could have been done whether ACA was a thing, or not.

"ShuckNJiveCare" has NOTHING to do with health and everything to do with power over peoples lives.

Ishmael

 

[Kitty]

Its headed that way in any case. Whites are having fewer kids and later in life, hispanics are growing through birth-rate and migration. It's fine. Less skin cancer.

Sounds great lol and you've already done your share...

 

[Sean Renaud]

Information is out there about mammography, prostate exams, healthy eating, smoking cessation, diabetes screening.

If information was going to help..(and it might, marginally) that is something that could have been done whether ACA was a thing, or not.

Some of it's out there, lots of it simply isn't . And this would be about how to properly use the healthcare system, not what needs to be done but explaining why it' cheaper to this instead of that. People are amazingly poorly informed on these things or in many cases spent so much time without that they never picked up traits they didn't have anyway of using.

 

[Que]

Sounds great lol and you've already done your share...

Well, I am only one small white man. I figured 5 little blonde-haired blueyed children was a reasonable contribution. My mom and her two sisters each had 7. I always wondered if it was some sort of rivalry thing.

Since then, I have been working through the united colors of Benniton. I was talking to a black woman recently...she said, "I love your blue eyes."

I said, "I probably can't help you with any blue-eyed children, but you play our cards right you could be looking at blue-eyed grand children."

She laughed and volunteered her number.

 

[Kitty]

Well, I am only one small white man. I figured 5 little blonde-haired blueyed children was a reasonable contribution. My mom and her two sisters each had 7. I always wondered if it was some sort of rivalry thing.

Since then, I have been working through the united colors of Benniton.

Your kids are blonde and blue? I thought...your wife...was...Indian?