So the UK is sending in combat troops...

[p_p_man]

to fight alongside the US Marines against al Qaida.

We've still got peace-keeping troops there but now we're going in to fight.

As a response to a request from the US we've decided to help you out yet again...

Oh well...

ppman

 

[SINthysist]

About Bloody Time!

But seriously, if you were British Military, and there was a fight going on, and you weren't in it, and you KNOW what people will say about your, ehem, shall we say, fighting spirit, then you would be screaming bloody murder to be let in on it. Remember the spirited race between Patton and Monty to conquer Sicily (we won)?

 

[p_p_man]

About Bloody Time!

But seriously, if you were British Military, and there was a fight going on, and you weren't in it, and you KNOW what people will say about your, ehem, shall we say, fighting spirit, then you would be screaming bloody murder to be let in on it. Remember the spirited race between Patton and Monty to conquer Sicily (we won)?

This decision was only taken an hour or so ago and was announced in the House of Commons by Blair.

The consesus is that we should be there for this one particular operation only (getting rid of al Qaida) but there is also a growing mistrust in the ability of America's leadership, and where it's taking everyone.

Our top military men have already warned Blair that it would be unwise to go into Iraq and this afternoon questions are being asked as to why no other European country is joining in the fight in Afghanistan.

Blair will carry this action out, but trouble is brewing for him if he supports many more American miltary moves.

He's being criticed as I type this for not informing Parliament or having a proper consultation as to whether he should have gone ahead this time.

ppman

 

[SINthysist]

Good strategy.

Pull the rug out from under your leader in wartime. Do you suppose your world will be safer if we all just back off, everybody take a deep breath, give Al Qaeda some Leibensraum...

 

[Southern37]

Apparently Blair has balls. I think the rest of the World and Europe in particular should be embarrased that the US went into Afghanistan alone and kicked so much ass. We do what we need to do with or without help from our so-called allies.

I guess if Al Queda had dropped a nuke on London instead of plowing 4 planes into America you would have a different opinion of American leadership.

Maybe the next time some piece of shit nation decides to hurl a stone at us they will think twice. We are a patient and God fearing nation, but enough is enough.

 

[p_p_man]

Good strategy.

Pull the rug out from under your leader in wartime.

Don't forget this whole "war" is being seen as Bush's, and I suppose America's, personal one.

Blair's not having any rug pulled out from under him. He's just being given some stiff criticism about dragging the UK to where the UK don't wanna go...

But that's the difference between our two countries. We can criticise our leaders, even during a "war", without being considered un-patriotic.

It's what we call democratic freedom.

 

[SINthysist]

You can't be being drug where you don't want to go...

You have one of those nice Democracies where the leadership is elected by the majority of the people. Ergo, if he is in, then it is the will of the majority until he is elected out. I might not understand all the nicities of it, but that's the jist of it, I suppose. And the rub.

You think maybe he is a little bit better informed on the need for this than you are? Or is he in the sway of the evil Shrub from Texas, that Warlord of Warlords, the Mini-me of nuclear powers, the cave dwelling, brow-thickened, ring-in-the-nose monkey that you consider the American President to be? Or just insane?

No. I think he realizes how important this is, for the whole world. If someone does not dispatch this band of brigands garrisoned in Bagdad, then they will continue probe, and poke, striking whenever and wherever they sense weakness. Which will be England if you back down.

We had finally backed down so many times, they they felt the time was right for an attack. I don't think they are done.

Do you?

 

[p_p_man]

Or is he in the sway of the evil Shrub from Texas, that Warlord of Warlords, the Mini-me of nuclear powers, the cave dwelling, brow-thickened, ring-in-the-nose monkey that you consider the American President to be?

If you put it that way.

Yes.

I suppose I wouldn't have quite such a feeling of misgiving over this terrorist hunt if Bush wasn't President.

He's the wrong man, in the wrong job at the wrong time.

As he hasn't the ability to run a country, I have no faith in him whatsoever being able to run a "war". Powell knows it, as do a few others in the Administration, but they're keeping quiet for the sake of unity.

Bush reacted to September 11 by destroying Afghanistan. bin Laden is still around as far as we know, so there's been no result there. Now he wants to go into Iraq. In the meantime he hasn't yet finished hunting down al Qaida in Afghanistan. Hence the request for British troops. The retaliation from al Qaida was more ferocious than expected. So much for relying on 'advanced' bombing technology.

Bush is like a headless chicken about to run up his own arsehole...

This should be prime Democrat time, but they seem to have gone to ground...

ppman

 

[SINthysist]

Bin Laden around?

I dunno...

I haven't seen the fawker for a while.

You?

Had to be a reason CIA began tapping relatives for DNA samples. Seems we may have difficulty identifying the body. You know, because of all those failed bombing runs.

Oh yeah, newsflash, look around, one of the top members of Bin Bin Baby's group was arrested and being held, in the Sudan, I believe...

Pretty damn good for a headless chicken!

 

[p_p_man]

Bin Laden around?

I dunno...

I haven't seen the fawker for a while.

You?

Had to be a reason CIA began tapping relatives for DNA samples. Seems we may have difficulty identifying the body. You know, because of all those failed bombing runs.

Oh yeah, newsflash, look around, one of the top members of Bin Bin Baby's group was arrested and being held, in the Sudan, I believe...

Pretty damn good for a headless chicken!

So you reckon it's pretty damn good that bin Laden hasn't been caught or identified although America has all those prisoners and one of them must know something about the man. Even the fact that he's dead would help.

And you think it's preetty damn good that yet another top member of bin Laden's group has been arrested. How many top members does that add up to now?

Well if that's all you can find to be pretty damn good.

Your expectations must have been pretty damn low to begin with.

ppman

 

[Ishmael]

Headless Chicken??????????

If you put it that way.

Yes.

I suppose I wouldn't have quite such a feeling of misgiving over this terrorist hunt if Bush wasn't President.

He's the wrong man, in the wrong job at the wrong time.

As he hasn't the ability to run a country, I have no faith in him whatsoever being able to run a "war". Powell knows it, as do a few others in the Administration, but they're keeping quiet for the sake of unity.

Bush reacted to September 11 by destroying Afghanistan. bin Laden is still around as far as we know, so there's been no result there. Now he wants to go into Iraq. In the meantime he hasn't yet finished hunting down al Qaida in Afghanistan. Hence the request for British troops. The retaliation from al Qaida was more ferocious than expected. So much for relying on 'advanced' bombing technology.

Bush is like a headless chicken about to run up his own arsehole...

This should be prime Democrat time, but they seem to have gone to ground...

ppman

Let's see. You'd feel better if Gore were the president? Thank God you're not voting over here.

He's a better man than many of the alternative and it seems that the country as a whole thinks so too.

How do you "run" a country? If you are so knowledgable, why aren't you running for office in your own country? With such enlightened views, you'd be a 'shoe in'.

By your formula WWII was a failure. No one ever captured Hitler, or actually proved he was dead. Isreal did not have to 'kill' Nasser, Arafat, or any of the other mid-eastern leaders to win. The goal of war is to reduce, or eliminate, your enemies ability to do you harm with as little frisk to yourself as is possible. With that in mind, it is not neccessary to kill or capture bil Laden in order to render him harmless.

The fact that Bush is not disclosing his long term plans is what has the left in such a tizzy. (And he shouldn't, you don't telegraph your moves to your enemy.) "Oh my God, he's going to start WWIII." Heard the same thing said about Reagan, and 'ole Ronnie was right. Calling the former Soviet Union an "Evil Empire" was jsut the thing to do. And I recall the lefts and the "experts" opinions of that speech. Gloom and doom.

And the dem's have gone to ground because every trial baloon they've floated so far has blown up in their face. The country got a slap in the face on Sept. 11th. We woke up so to speak and the liberal rhetoric is not going anywhere anymore. Nothing like a few thousands deaths to help you get your priorities in order.

Ishmael

 

[SINthysist]

Just read a Times article.

The Brits are sending in 1700 troups. They are to rally around a 45 man unit of Royal Marines. That's 37+ support personnel for every combat member. I'd be comforted knowing that there were that many people behind me...

Of course, with as good as the Royal Marines are, we should have Bin Bin Baybee inside of a week. Once they hit the deck, he's sure to turn himself in, fearful of the might of the British Empire, whoops, excuse me, the NHRE (New Holy Roman Empire for any new p_p_ readers out there.)

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Headless Chicken??????????

Let's see. You'd feel better if Gore were the president? Thank God you're not voting over here.

No. Just because I don't like one doesn't mean I particularly like a certain other.

He's a better man than many of the alternative and it seems that the country as a whole thinks so too.

That is the trouble. America has no real strong man around at the moment willing to run for office.

How do you "run" a country? If you are so knowledgable, why aren't you running for office in your own country? With such enlightened views, you'd be a 'shoe in'.

Now you're being silly. You can be knowledgable without having the ability. Unfortunately Bush has neither.

By your formula WWII was a failure. No one ever captured Hitler, or actually proved he was dead. Isreal did not have to 'kill' Nasser, Arafat, or any of the other mid-eastern leaders to win.

That's true. But I wouldn't go so far as to say Israel has won anything. Apart from keeping America's misguided allegence. Even Cheney who is meant to be out there today to help sort out a peace formula has no plans to meet Arafat. Now is that daft or is that daft?

The goal of war is to reduce, or eliminate, your enemies ability to do you harm with as little frisk to yourself as is possible. With that in mind, it is not neccessary to kill or capture bil Laden in order to render him harmless.

As you say that is the goal of war. But it's not bin Laden alone that has to be eliminated. It's his organisation. And in that so far, despite all the "kick arse" rhetoric, America has failed.

The fact that Bush is not disclosing his long term plans is what has the left in such a tizzy. (And he shouldn't, you don't telegraph your moves to your enemy.) "Oh my God, he's going to start WWIII."

It's not only the Left he's got in a tizzy. It's everyone. He's fond of screaming his future plans from behind the supposedly safe walls of "Fortress America", 'axis of evil', 'invade Iraq' and so on but it hasn't gone unnoticed that he keeps his mouth firmly shut when he's not on American soil.

I don't think he actually has any long term plan. He started this "war" as a result of extreme provocation, quickly realised just what a monumental task he's given himself and his country and is now bouncing between speeches hoping something will turn up.

A case in point is the tragic murder of the American diplomat's wife and daughter in Islamabad. Apart from one speech, I've heard nothing else from him. It could well be that he used all his ammunition denouncing the kidnap and killing of the American journalist.

Heard the same thing said about Reagan, and 'ole Ronnie was right. Calling the former Soviet Union an "Evil Empire" was jsut the thing to do. And I recall the lefts and the "experts" opinions of that speech. Gloom and doom.

Now this is where I'm not going to sound logical. I and many thousands of others agreed with Reagan's "Empire of Evil" speech at Reykjavik. It's because Reagan was a man who was leading America and the world down a well planned path. At least that's what it looked like to us. Europeans saw him as stronger than most Americans gave him credit for. He understood what he was dealing with and we saw that he understood. That's the basic difference between Bush and Reagan and the feelings Europe have for the two.

Reagan came across as a leader. Bush comes across as a clown.

We woke up so to speak and the liberal rhetoric is not going anywhere anymore. Nothing like a few thousands deaths to help you get your priorities in order.

To that I can only reply that the Right wing rhetoric isn't going anywhere either. Well let's put it this way, it hasn't achieved anything yet.

ppman

 

[SINthysist]

"As you say that is the goal of war. But it's not bin Laden alone that has to be eliminated. It's his organisation. And in that so far, despite all the "kick arse" rhetoric, America has failed. "



That will be accomplished when we move into Bagdad since that is the real headquarters of Al Qaeda. Not some hidey-hole in Afghanistan...


Now, we have daily reports on the successes of our missions. Uh, refresh my memory, but whose talking about the great Al Qaeda victories in the field? I mean other than the, "we can run and hide faster than you can chase us" bandito definition of victory...

Let me see, the prison uprising (which led nowhere) and the devastating hunger-strike attack of those Al Qaeda operatives who cleverly surrendered so they could generate tons of bad press in the British rags and accomplish thier ultimate triumph over the Great Satan, and the wonderful winning tactic of turning thier leader into a fugitive ghost.

Even Russia says, We do not condemn a US attack on Iraq, we just hope they consult with us first.

Another stunning Al Qaeda victory...

jeez p_p_, you're definately beginning to sway my opinion on President Bush.

 

[Ishmael]

Enough

OK ppman.

So far in this thread you have expressed your opinions. In derogatory terms, but only opinions none the less.

I respect your right to do so. And I'm sure that you respect my right to disagree with your opinions and express my own. Which I have done.

It appears that a 'super' majority of my fellow country men agree with me, to which you'll post another opinion.

However, having expressed my opinion, I see no reason to continue this discussion. I'm not going to change your mind, and you aren't going to change mine.

Rant all you want, I'm out of this one.

Ishmael

 

[coolr]

About Bloody Time!

But seriously, if you were British Military, and there was a fight going on, and you weren't in it, and you KNOW what people will say about your, ehem, shall we say, fighting spirit, then you would be screaming bloody murder to be let in on it. Remember the spirited race between Patton and Monty to conquer Sicily (we won)?

lol what? i thought patton did......... hmmmmmm, ne ways, i say let us deal with it, our president should have sent more troops in the 1st place (future marine here)

 

[NoRegrets]

Yeah... and don't forget Yorktown!

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Enough

OK ppman.

Rant all you want, I'm out of this one.

Ishmael

Rant? This is not a rant.

It's a mere love tap...

 

[Lost Cause]

Yaaayyyyy!!! Finally, c'mon and get some! The Brits I did training with were upright soldiers by themselves. Just as long as combat is coordinated with two separate commanders, we'll do okay. It's when you unify command authority that soldiers get killed, different terminology, technology, and manuevering elements can lead to a F.U.B.A.R. situation.
Fuck the UN, NATO can do it themselves!
OOORRRAAAHHHHHH! All the Way!

 

[sch00lteacher]

There are only two countries in the world whose militaries I respect.

http://www-cira.tees.ac.uk/scouts/IMAGES/ISR.GIF


and


http://www.cstone.net/~svbcc/svbcc%20images/United%20Kingdom%20flag.JPG

 

[BustyTheClown]

I just want to say that I'm an American and I agree with every single word p_p_man has posted on this board. Bush is a moron, this whole war is a fiasco, and now he's dragged the UK into the war to clean up the mess he's made... Either that or make it worse. We'll have to see.

A note to you, p_p_man... I'm not surprised you don't have much support from the Americans on this board. Now is probably not the best time for "foreigners" to put any of their opinions out there since we all-powerful Americans are skeered of anyone who isn't from this country. We were attacked, by god! Nobody else knows what that feels like!!! Our retaliation is a great, honorable act, and anybody who bashes it (or backs out of helping us, as one of the posters pointed out) deserves to be retaliated against, as well.

Note: can you say "sarcasm so thick, you could cut it with a knife"?

Look, Americans, we have to realize that what happened on September 11th was NOT something that is exclusive to us. Sure, it was a huge attack. Sure, lots of people were killed needlessly. Sure, it was the biggest attack on *this* nation so far. But we are being SO goddamn selfish about this whole deal. We're executing our wrath in a way that justifies the hypocrisy of the death penalty: someone attacked us; attacking innocent people is wrong; we want to teach them that attacking innocent people is wrong; so we will bomb their innocent people under the guise of a manhunt for the "entity" that attacked us.

Do you see how faulty that logic is? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't. Sadly enough, it's the American fucking mindframe. I can't wait to get out of this hellhole.

 

[SINthysist]

I think you miss the point

p_p_ rather enjoys putting stick into the ants nest. Mostly it's good natured back and forth rough and tumble.

I mean how many "What are you listening too now threads before you realize, nobody really gives a damn what you're listening too, only flirting?"

I reasonably sure p_p_ is not flirting with me...

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Meanwhile, back in the Hall of Justice...

"Wonder Twin Powers Activate!"

P P Man: "Shape of a B-15"
AJax-Man: "Form of a Water Balloon!"

*Splash!* *Splash!*

Osama Luthor: "Stop it! You cursed Super Friends!"

 

[Jimi]

There are only two countries in the world whose militaries I respect.

http://www-cira.tees.ac.uk/scouts/IMAGES/ISR.GIF


and


http://www.cstone.net/~svbcc/svbcc%20images/United%20Kingdom%20flag.JPG

C'mon Teach... Your USMC is pretty good. Modelled on RM, true, but compact and mobile.

So add the Crimson & Gold globe & anchor, OK?

 

[Jimi]

Hey, Bubba! Let's get our facts in order...

Apparently Blair has balls. I think the rest of the World and Europe in particular should be embarrased that the US went into Afghanistan alone (emphasis added) and kicked so much ass. We do what we need to do with or without help from our so-called allies.

Ah, guess what? There are Canadian Special Force snipers baggin' ragheads for Uncle Dubbya... and British SAS & RM Commandos, also...

Sheesh! Xenophobia liveth in the Exited States...