So, is it over?

[Byron In Exile]

Did the fat lady sing?

I bet our soldiers over there are still feeling pretty edgy.

No, they really aren't. They are walking around like they own the place, which they more or less do.

 

[District Line]

[snip]

The British in Basra are saying it isn't their business to enforce law and order. They look the other way as far as looting, etc.

[snip]

Byron, your post paints the British in a negative light and is misleading. There is still much to do.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2928615.stm

[Extract]

While residents of Basra celebrated the end of Saddam Hussein's rule in their city, they may not have expected the lawlessness which accompanied it.

As British infantry moved in on Monday, looters took to the streets, ransacking schools, shops, hospitals and offices.

The British did not intervene. Military commanders wanted to send out the message to locals that the iron rule of Saddam Hussein's Baathist regime had collapsed.

 

[District Line]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2929393.stm

Widespread looting in Basra has become a serious obstacle to getting aid into the city, according to reports.

Looters are said to be rife in Iraq's second city and British troops had to fire into the air on Tuesday to prevent young men from stripping aid lorries bare.

The population is desperately short of water, but coalition spokesmen deny there is a humanitarian crisis.

Meanwhile, British Forces have started to work with local community leaders in Basra to run the city in the first move towards restoring normality.

UK military leaders said they had no plans to intervene to stop the looters until the last scraps of opposition had been stamped out.

Looting is proving a serious obstacle to getting aid into the city, according to BBC correspondent Clive Myrie.

"It [Basra] is a centrepiece for rioting and disorder and it is British troops that will have to pick up the pieces."

He witnessed British troops firing at lorry.

Lieutenant Colonel Ben Curry said: "There is a power vaccum here. "

"The old Iraqi regime is being swept away and people are effectively going back to the law of the jungle and are grabbing what they can whilst they can. "

"Civil order will be returned hopefully in a matter of days."

One soldier said "hundreds and hundreds" of people were taking anything they could from schools, hospitals, banks, colleges and hotels.

Reporters said they had seen fridges, ceiling fans, fire engines, pieces of corrugated iron and even a grand piano being wheeled along the streets.

And on Tuesday looters reportedly turned their attention to aid lorries.

But military spokesman Group Captain Al Lockwood told the BBC he believed the looting was simply a "letting off of steam" and would probably "die out very rapidly. "

He also admitted it might be too early to say the Basra area was completely secure, with correspondents still reporting some areas where there could be resistance.

"To say it is actually secure is a little bit pre-emptive. We will take probably a couple of days to ensure it is entirely secure."

Local sheik

British forces have chosen a local tribal chief to help administer Basra.

They say they have been contacted by a local leader, described only as a sheikh, who is now setting up a committee of other significant figures.

But Clive Myrie said: "He is going to have to work fast if he is going to have a city worth restoring."

UK military spokesman Colonel Chris Vernon said it was hoped to move from a combat role to "post-conflict nation building" operations within a day or so.

The first move in this process will involve the setting up of a committee, broadly representative of local people, under the unnamed tribal chief.

Colonel Vernon said: "This person approached us. We met with him.

"We have ascertained he is worthwhile, credible and has authority in the local area, particularly with the tribal chiefs."

"We asked him to go away and form an initial committee to achieve a degree of civil administration."

The colonel said membership of the sheikh's committee would essentially be solely in his hands.

Colonel Vernon said the ruling Baath party had been eliminated as a force in Basra.

"Basra is now free and final elements of the vicious Baathist control is now extinguished."

But there are indications current officials - including Baath party members - as well as police officers could be employed to restore order and infrastructure.

 

[Byron In Exile]

It's gonna be like the American West circa 1870 for a while. That's to be suspected. These people have no sence of pride in their country or infrastructure and hence do not respect it. That self-respect will come with freedom.

Exactly what I was saying should have been planned for.

Military might (i.e. victory) was a forgone conclusion.

The afterward should have been anticiptated.

 

[weed]

No, they really aren't. They are walking around like they own the place, which they more or less do.

That's what I thought and it worries me. I think the worst resistance has probably been taking care of but it seems reak quick to be too confident.

 

[LadyG]

Far too soon. They got Basra, they're in Baghdad, but the country is by no means secure.

I think the celebrations may a bit too premature.

 

[8ball]

Far too soon. They got Basra, they're in Baghdad, but the country is by no means secure.

I think the celebrations may a bit too premature.

Definitely.

edited to add: yikes! post #'666'. Help!

 

[nimbus9]

Hey you wanted them free well they are free. Let them decide when the looting is over for Christ sake. You want to tell them when to take a piss too

I wanna see another US flag run up a flag pole somewhere LOL. I knew that would go over REAL big LOL

 

[Byron In Exile]

Far too soon. They got Basra, they're in Baghdad, but the country is by no means secure.

I think the celebrations may a bit too premature.

The previous administration is destroyed.

The current administration is still in the planning stages.

 

[Byron In Exile]

That's what I thought and it worries me. I think the worst resistance has probably been taking care of but it seems reak quick to be too confident.

Rounding up all those munitions will be quite a task. That should be the first priority, probably. A police force won't be effective amidst a populace with rocket-propelled grenades.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Hey you wanted them free well they are free. Let them decide when the looting is over for Christ sake. You want to tell them when to take a piss too

I wanna see another US flag run up a flag pole somewhere LOL. I knew that would go over REAL big LOL

Export of systems of government is always a risky business.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Byron, your post paints the British in a negative light and is misleading. There is still much to do.

You're a complete and total dope.

 

[Byron In Exile]

It makes no difference whether the troops are British or American.

That wasn't the point.

 

[District Line]

You're a complete and total dope.

ooh, tetchy.

You try and sound like you know what's going on but your talking out your ass.

 

[Byron In Exile]

ooh, tetchy.

You try and sound like you know what's going on but your talking out your ass.

You're making a joke, right?

 

[District Line]

You're making a joke, right?

I'm pointing out the truth, you don't seem to like it.

 

[Byron In Exile]

I'm pointing out the truth, you don't seem to like it.

I love it. Say more.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Is there any more?

 

[District Line]

Exactly what I was saying should have been planned for.

Military might (i.e. victory) was a forgone conclusion.

The afterward should have been anticiptated.

"Military commanders wanted to send out the message to locals that the iron rule of Saddam Hussein's Baathist regime had collapsed."

It was part of a psych op, get it.

 

[LadyG]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if it's NOT over and it's premature celebration.

Time will tell.

 

[Byron In Exile]

"Military commanders wanted to send out the message to locals that the iron rule of Saddam Hussein's Baathist regime had collapsed."

It was part of a psych op, get it.

Impressive...

Are you serious, or was that it? I'm, frankly, confused. Is this a psy-op thing, or is it just the usual Iraqi Ministry guy sayin' we will consume their corpses on the walls of Baghdad, and we will destroy them for the most part and stuff or whatever we need to say to make it seem like we are prevailing in spite of ridiculous odds and stuff...

 

[Byron In Exile]

Im pointing out the truth, you don't seem to like it

Yeah, check out my posts. Nothing upsets me like the truth.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

The people doing the looting are saying, before, only Ba'ath Party had anything. We had nothing. This is our stuff.

I agree 100%

Just as long as American Soldiers are not looting.

To the victor goes the spoils and Captain Redlegs IS the controlling legal authority.

 

[Byron In Exile]

The people doing the looting are saying, before, only Ba'ath Party had anything. We had nothing. This is our stuff.

I agree 100%

Just as long as American Soldiers are not looting.

To the victor goes the spoils and Captain Redlegs IS the controlling legal authority.

That's fine as far as looters of what might be the Ba'ath Party headquarters, but what about schools and homes?

 

[District Line]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if it's NOT over and it's premature celebration.

Time will tell.

Yes, it looks like there is still a lot to do there.

My point was that the British forces let the looting take place. It was planned for. It was clear demonstration that the previous administration was no longer in charge. Although there was interim chaos, it allowed the citizens to feel free of the control they'd been under.

Now, after a day or so of looting, the army are organizing some control, together with the local people.

The Brit forces weren't being negligent anout the plight of the ordinary citizens.