So, is it over?

[Byron In Exile]

Basra: is that it, and stuff?

Or is there more?

The British in Basra are saying it isn't their business to enforce law and order. They look the other way as far as looting, etc.

They're keen on humanitarian aid, but how can that be delivered without any sort of framework of law and order?

 

[8ball]

I am not sure about Basra, but, the stuff is definitely over.

 

[Byron In Exile]

I am not sure about Basra, but, the stuff is definitely over.

The "war" is over, but there isn't any administrative structure in place. There is no police force, etc. Doctors are not showing up for work in Baghdad. Chaos has been made a part of the daily lives of the people who live in the major cities. People are being robbed, hospitals are overflowing with casualties they cannot deal with, establishments looted, what's the plan, sam? The enemy is vanquished. What now?

"Humanitarian aid" is a pipe dream without some sort of order.

 

[8ball]

Actually, I was just playin' around when I answered. But, I can't really think that what is happening isn't what has happened in most other situations like this. The coallition forces, probably, don't have enough control to do much about things yet. I am sure they are doing what they can, but, until they can spend more time worrying about social disorder rather than being shot in the back, I don't think they can do much about it.

I just think it takes time. In the mean time, I am sure that the coallition forces will do whatever they can to help.

 

[Myrrdin]

The citizens of Basra with their arms full of loot are less of a problem than it's inhabitants carrying guns.
A local tribal leader has been invited to be mayor and told to form a cabinet with members from all groups.
It's probably a good sign that people are still healthy enough to "shopping".

 

[Byron In Exile]

Actually, I was just playin' around when I answered. But, I can't really think that what is happening isn't what has happened in most other situations like this. The coallition forces, probably, don't have enough control to do much about things yet. I am sure they are doing what they can, but, until they can spend more time worrying about social disorder rather than being shot in the back, I don't think they can do much about it. I just think it takes time. In the mean time, I am sure that the coallition forces will do whatever they can to help.

Exactly as you said, but this is a contingency that should have been planned for... the troops in place were not properly prepared for what would occur after victory.

Yes, it will be months before even a majority of the arms now in private possession are rounded up.

The concept of "secure" will undergo considerable modification in the meantime.

 

[Byron In Exile]

The citizens of Basra with their arms full of loot are less of a problem than it's inhabitants carrying guns.
A local tribal leader has been invited to be mayor and told to form a cabinet with members from all groups.
It's probably a good sign that people are still healthy enough to "shopping".

A power-vacuum is impossible. Despite "casualties" and all the rest, the human dimension of war should have been anticipated by those in a position to know. Anything else is just dumb, or else criminal. I doubt that G. W. Bush really understood the human cost of what he was involving his country in, frankly. It's too late to debate that point, though. The war ended, it is now the responsibility of the United States to remend the damage done by its bombing. The form of government decided on by the people of Iraq should be their own concern.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

I think it has been planned for, a government is being established, water is being turned on, supplies are beginning to pour in...

We can't even control Watts when those people decide it's time to loot.

 

[CarolineOh]

I think it has been planned for, a government is being established, water is being turned on, supplies are beginning to pour in...

We can't even control Watts when those people decide it's time to loot.

"those people" huh?

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

Although I do have to admit there is a bit of poetic justice when you see the pictures of the locals beating a Fedeheyn (sp?) to death in the street...

If I was the local law enforcement, I'd make like Skidmore, Missouri!

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

Is someone "looking" for racism?

Let me rephrase that.

The NOBLE INHABITANTS of Watts...

 

[8ball]

I can understand why these poor people are looting. I can't imagine what it would be like to live like they have for decades. They had nothing and were completely repressed, and now, they are grabbing what they can. Plus, with the world watching the troop's every move, waiting for a chance to jump on them screaming, "Aha! See? They are beating the civi's! The coallition doesn't give a damn about them!", I am sure they are a bit afraid to act out and try to stop them.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

...unless you're talking about Korean grocers and as we all know, THOSE PEOPLE got it coming...

 

[weed]

Did the fat lady sing?

I bet our soldiers over there are still feeling pretty edgy.

Hope so.

 

[CarolineOh]

Is someone "looking" for racism?

Let me rephrase that.

The NOBLE INHABITANTS of Watts...

I didn't have to look for it, it was sitting right there.

 

[Byron In Exile]

I think it has been planned for, a government is being established, water is being turned on, supplies are beginning to pour in...

We can't even control Watts when those people decide it's time to loot.

Hopefully, even the pichurs of Saddam are fetchin rubles!

What's up with that?

Wouldn't happen in Kansas, I'm thinkin.

Not even Berlin...

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

Did you see the stuff they were looting?

I saw a couple of loads of furniture Walmart rejected.

Pathetic. They should be able to do better. I guess there were no consumer goods to be looted with Iraq's weath having been spent on burning tanks and destroyed armoured personnel carriers...

 

[8ball]

Did you see the stuff they were looting?

I saw a couple of loads of furniture Walmart rejected.

Pathetic. They should be able to do better. I guess there were no consumer goods to be looted with Iraq's weath having been spent on burning tanks and destroyed armoured personnel carriers...

Don't forget the opulent bathrooms in Saddam's palace's either.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

Hopefully, even the pichurs of Saddam are fetchin rubles!

What's up with that?

Wouldn't happen in Kansas, I'm thinkin.

Not even Berlin...

It happens after every conflict, most every natural disaster, Tinardeau (sp?) will come out of the gutters everytime. People are people and let us not forget, war is a Punative action taken after Diplomacy has failed.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

I didn't have to look for it, it was sitting right there.

Then you saw something deep, deep deep, in the subconscience seeing half of my family is native savages...

 

[Byron In Exile]

I can understand why these poor people are looting. I can't imagine what it would be like to live like they have for decades. They had nothing and were completely repressed, and now, they are grabbing what they can. Plus, with the world watching the troop's every move, waiting for a chance to jump on them screaming, "Aha! See? They are beating the civi's! The coallition doesn't give a damn about them!", I am sure they are a bit afraid to act out and try to stop them.

That's why it's important to establish order before introducing aid. But establishing order is sometimes brutal, especially when cameras are there, so sometimes it's easier to let the cameras dictate what will happen and when.

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

Did the fat lady sing?

I bet our soldiers over there are still feeling pretty edgy.

Hope so.

It's gonna be like the American West circa 1870 for a while. That's to be suspected. These people have no sence of pride in their country or infrastructure and hence do not respect it. That self-respect will come with freedom...

 

[]ooooo(chained)]

That's why it's important to establish order before introducing aid. But establishing order is sometimes brutal, especially when cameras are there, so sometimes it's easier to let the cameras dictate what will happen and when.

Okay. What's your plan?

How many officers?

Where?

Mobile jails?

Send SD to defend them? Siren? lavy? FlamingoBlue?

You wanna be Wyatt Earp?

 

[weed]

It's gonna be like the American West circa 1870 for a while. That's to be suspected. These people have no sence of pride in their country or infrastructure and hence do not respect it. That self-respect will come with freedom...

I don't think that's something we can instill.

They are going to have to figure that one out for themselves if it's going to happen. Change will not be easy. Hopefully they are motivated for it.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Okay. What's your plan?

How many officers?

Where?

Mobile jails?

Send SD to defend them? Siren? lavy? FlamingoBlue?

You wanna be Wyatt Earp?

I'll be Wyatt fucking Earp. You be John Henry Holliday?

Let's go. Good Lord, man, we'll do some stuff...

We'll show them Iraqouis things and stuff western style.

Those other things you said, I don't know about.

I only know what's west of the Mississippi.