Snuff - is it real?

[CharleyH]

I watched a doco last night. It wasn't a good doco, it seemed like a 4th year film thesis to me, but the theme was intiguing ... does snuff exist or is it urban legend? If real, are porn makers responsible for it?

What are your thoughts?

Mine are ... if humans can think of it, then it does exist. However, I doubt porn producers are responsible for it.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I think snuff is an urban legend. I've never heard of anyone ever actually running down such a film, except in the case of hamsters or cats, and I'm a devoted news junkie. Certainly if anyone ever did make one, their own lifespan would drastically curtailed!

 

[NoJo]

- deleted -- wrong kind of snuff!

 

[TxRad]

Porn producers are a little or a lot twisted but not twisted enough for snuff. Porn producers are greed and try like hell to stay out of jail to enjoy their loot. Snuff takes a sick mind and is illegal everywhere that I know of.

 

[bflagsst]

I watched a doco last night. It wasn't a good doco, it seemed like a 4th year film thesis to me, but the theme was intiguing ... does snuff exist or is it urban legend? If real, are porn makers responsible for it?

What are your thoughts?

Mine are ... if humans can think of it, then it does exist. However, I doubt porn producers are responsible for it.

Snuff is a pretty narrow 'genre'. The movie has to show someone's pre-planned death, and the reason for its existence has to be for either entertainment or for financial game via sale and distribution. I don't think it even has to be for sexual gratification, just for the spectacle and taboo of the violence. The death of Daniel Pearl could be loosely argued as a snuff movie, it was pre-planned, distributed widely, but it wasn't for entertainment and whether terror or power was a 'gain' by the terrorists as a result is negligible. But I don't think it's a snuff film by the narrow definition, and I think the genre is more urban legend than anything else.

 

[jomar]

I agree with you Charley. Rare, but I think someone has done it, or commissioned it. Serial killers and your run of the mill murderers don't count, of course.

Have you seen 8mm, starring Nicolas Cage?

 

[mynameisben]

Human depravity really knows no lower bounds. There are countless twisted psychopaths lurking about in every corner of society, every day. It would not surprise me at all to learn that one of them with enough money and power to cover their tracks has made a snuff film for their own amusement.

But I don't think such a film, if discovered, would ever see the light of day. At least, not in a porno/entertainment context. The idea is just too universally appalling to permit distribution.

 

[JamesSD]

snopes.com believes Snuff films to be an urban legend. The most compelling evidence is no snuff film has ever been procured by the police.

The Saw series is probably more entertaining than a real snuff film could ever be. And the "Faces of Death" video series is probably the closest commercially marketed product. The "Mondo" sort of film cobbles together stock footage of massacres (such as the Napalm bombings of Vietnam), some staged and fake scenes along with real footage of disasters and even animals being killed. Although the purpose of compiling such features clearly has some pretty base appeal, since the actual deaths are taken from stock news footage there is nothing illegal.

I think the lack of legitimate snuff films on the internet pretty much proves none are out there. There have been a handful of very good fakes, but none that has stood up to investigation.

 

[Edward Teach]

I don’t doubt for a minute that there are people who get off on the idea and would buy and watch snuff films, however, I doubt that there is enough profit in making them to offset the huge risks incurred.

It would be impossible to distribute snuff widely without getting caught and even the local retailer could face jail time in most places.

Finding a small clientele, say a hundred people, who would pay large sums for snuff would also be very risky for everyone involved. The buyers, sellers and producers would all be at the mercy of the weakest link. It would be so risky that I doubt anyone would even try to put such a group together.

One wealthy benefactor could conceivably have a snuff film made but he would have to be crazy to take such a risk and the producers would have to be crazy as well.. It all comes down to the fact that so many people would have to be involved that the probability of getting caught would be high. And, the consequences of getting caught would be very severe.

Maybe some oil sheik has had one made, but, hell, he could have snuffs done in person if he wanted. That has probably been done.

 

[Boota]

As defined by the FBI snuff doesn't, and in fact can't, exist. It has to be commercially available to be called snuff. However, there is at least one instance I know of that covers every definition of snuff short of the commercial availability. Lake and Ng, the serial killers, produced hours of videotapes of themselves and their victims, including the rapes and subsequent murders of several of them. None of the tapes were ever intended to see the light of day, though. It was purely for personal use.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You folks are pretty naive about people and their evil ways. The cops dont reveal and display all the crap they find, especially if the crap belongs to VIPs.

 

[jomar]

As defined by the FBI snuff doesn't, and in fact can't, exist. It has to be commercially available to be called snuff. ...

Okay, that being the case...

 

[lloyd_5]

JBJ is the most realistic here. Stop constipating on definitions, there are almost as many 'snuff' films out there on the 'darknet' as there are pedophile vids. It is revolting.

My cousin is a cop on a team and she comes home sickened often about what they've found and supressed - prosecution is almost impossible, but they try.

This has nothing to do with porn producers or lit, that want to make an honest buck with over-18 incest.

You and I can't get the links, but the nastiness is out there. From what I see, the lit community is a bunch of romantic souls who like a bit of sweaty and sticky action with always a safeword. There is an underside that is sickening and we must fight against to keep our little corner alive.

Just try googling 'Dolcett' to see what's allowed in the mainstream.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Cops learn two lessons at the academy: Friday is payday and shit flows down-hill.

I guarantee that if the problem involves a VIP a dead girl or a live boy wont be enough to interest a cop, prosecutor, judge, or city editor. If you try to drop a house on a VIP your career is over.

 

[lance gt]

I worked for five years with Canada Customs examining the incoming mail. Every week we would find either child porn or snuff films, pics. The tapes are examined and sent to the RCMP task force to locate the origin of them. Very few if any are caught, but they do exist and sicken even the toughest of men. There is more illegal material that makes it through, can't intercept everything, but snuff exists as much as child porn does. None of it will see the light of day, or be used publically for prosecution.
I saw three and that was all I needed to see, to know there's some very sick people out there who need nothing more than a bullet.

 

[Xelebes]

There has been films of people being tortured to death, the most famous one that sticks in my head is the leaked videos of a hate killing in Russia (I think) done by a gang of teenagers. That was some pretty nasty shit as they made sure the guy was still living as they were hammering in the poor guy's head. Yes I watched about five minutes of it and the video is an hour long.

 

[bflagsst]

I worked for five years with Canada Customs examining the incoming mail. Every week we would find either child porn or snuff films, pics. The tapes are examined and sent to the RCMP task force to locate the origin of them. Very few if any are caught, but they do exist and sicken even the toughest of men. There is more illegal material that makes it through, can't intercept everything, but snuff exists as much as child porn does. None of it will see the light of day, or be used publically for prosecution.
I saw three and that was all I needed to see, to know there's some very sick people out there who need nothing more than a bullet.

As someone mentioned above, the "Dolcett" fetish exists and is popular, distributed widely on the Internet. However, it only deals with simulated death and torture and that's why it's a business and not some unspoken of underground exchange. It's not necessarily even a sexual fetish, as we don't normally classify horror movie fanatics as sexual deviants. The power of an Urban Legend is shown here where we have all sorts of different arguments and anecdotes where people are sure they know of true snuff films.

A customs agent knows what child porn looks like, you can't simulate it. But how would a customs agent know the difference between a popular simulated torture/murder video available widely on the Internet, and an actual video depicting torture and murder? A mob boss ordering the torture and murder of an enemy on film, delivering that film to his enemies or the spoke of extremist beheading videos, are as close to real life snuff as it gets. But it's still not snuff, the business of distributing recorded murder for money.

People who view horror movies or the hardcore simulated murder and torture videos passed off as snuff know the videos are simulated, they suspend belief. There's no reason to say that these same people would even get off on a 'real' snuff film. Someone might be a fan of Texas Chainsaw Massacre eat popcorn and laugh, then hear about a real atrocity on the news and vomit in their garbage can.

 

[lance gt]

As someone mentioned above, the "Dolcett" fetish exists and is popular, distributed widely on the Internet. However, it only deals with simulated death and torture and that's why it's a business and not some unspoken of underground exchange. It's not necessarily even a sexual fetish, as we don't normally classify horror movie fanatics as sexual deviants. The power of an Urban Legend is shown here where we have all sorts of different arguments and anecdotes where people are sure they know of true snuff films.

A customs agent knows what child porn looks like, you can't simulate it. But how would a customs agent know the difference between a popular simulated torture/murder video available widely on the Internet, and an actual video depicting torture and murder? A mob boss ordering the torture and murder of an enemy on film, delivering that film to his enemies or the spoke of extremist beheading videos, are as close to real life snuff as it gets. But it's still not snuff, the business of distributing recorded murder for money.

People who view horror movies or the hardcore simulated murder and torture videos passed off as snuff know the videos are simulated, they suspend belief. There's no reason to say that these same people would even get off on a 'real' snuff film. Someone might be a fan of Texas Chainsaw Massacre eat popcorn and laugh, then hear about a real atrocity on the news and vomit in their garbage can.

You can tell by the camera used that it's not a 'doctored image'. These are as real as if you were watching the event live. Nothing is 'faked' when you see the skin being cut and blood pouring out. This isn't a big budget production we're talking about. This is just a camcorder taking it in as it happens.
I've seen several snuff and torture movies made and there wasn't any doublt to the authenticity of them. They are graphic and to this day I can't get the images to leave my mind, they were so horrible.

 

[bflagsst]

You can tell by the camera used that it's not a 'doctored image'. These are as real as if you were watching the event live. Nothing is 'faked' when you see the skin being cut and blood pouring out. This isn't a big budget production we're talking about. This is just a camcorder taking it in as it happens.
I've seen several snuff and torture movies made and there wasn't any doublt to the authenticity of them. They are graphic and to this day I can't get the images to leave my mind, they were so horrible.

Obviously, I don't know what you watched. I just wanted to mention how powerful urban legends are. There was this Japanese series of movies in the late 80s called "Guinea Pig Series" or something, and Japanese serial killers loved it. But they, the serial killers who didn't exactly have the best grasp on reality, also recognized that those movies were fictional, they didn't go and kill because of them. Oddly, you can actually watch most of those movies on Youtube, they're pretty brutal so I don't recommend it. People thought and still think that those scenes depict actual torture and murder, just check the comments sections on the youtube videos. If someone took a couple minutes from one of those videos they could probably sell it as if it's a real snuff film. Again, don't go to youtube and watch those unless you want to see some really sickening things.

 

[lance gt]

Obviously, I don't know what you watched. I just wanted to mention how powerful urban legends are. There was this Japanese series of movies in the late 80s called "Guinea Pig Series" or something, and Japanese serial killers loved it. But they, the serial killers who didn't exactly have the best grasp on reality, also recognized that those movies were fictional, they didn't go and kill because of them. Oddly, you can actually watch most of those movies on Youtube, they're pretty brutal so I don't recommend it. People thought and still think that those scenes depict actual torture and murder, just check the comments sections on the youtube videos. If someone took a couple minutes from one of those videos they could probably sell it as if it's a real snuff film. Again, don't go to youtube and watch those unless you want to see some really sickening things.

I've seen enough sickening things, thanks. The graphic nature of them was enough I sat out every viewing after the third one. When you see a woman being sliced open from her vagina to her breasts and then the rest of it, well, you can understand why avoid looking at them.

 

[Handley_Page]

I sincerely hope that the real "snuff" movies do not exist.
I felt sick watching a live duckling being eaten by a python. . . . . . .

 

[lance gt]

I sincerely hope that the real "snuff" movies do not exist.
I felt sick watching a live duckling being eaten by a python. . . . . . .

Then you honestly don't want to see what I saw HP. You will truly have nightmares for a long time afterwards.

 

[sereneone4u]

I think lancegt will know what I am talking about, not really snuff films as defined but there was that serial killing couple in Canada known as Ken and Barbie...his name was Paul, I can't recall her name....they raped and killed her own virgin younger sister and she would dress up as her later for sex games. They videotaped their crimes and were caught when she confessed. She got away scot free he is in prison for life.

Do you know who I am talking about, Lancegt

 

[lance gt]

I think lancegt will know what I am talking about, not really snuff films as defined but there was that serial killing couple in Canada known as Ken and Barbie...his name was Paul, I can't recall her name....they raped and killed her own virgin younger sister and she would dress up as her later for sex games. They videotaped their crimes and were caught when she confessed. She got away scot free he is in prison for life.

Do you know who I am talking about, Lancegt

That would be Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. They did three girls altogether. She spent five years in prison and is now out, he's in for life and will never get out. They have him in isolation for his own protection.

 

[sereneone4u]

That would be Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. They did three girls altogether. She spent five years in prison and is now out, he's in for life and will never get out. They have him in isolation for his own protection.

Yes, he was/is a sadist. They said what was seen and heard on those tapes was so depraved that they destroyed them...the courts, that is...

She is now out and has a daughter, I think, but she is watched closely.