Slave belly info?

[JMohegan]

I dunno. I'd take other people's input no matter who they are, with a large grain of salt.

I remember getting a talk like this from an M/s slave when I was getting into SM as a very 50/50 switch - about how clearly I'm really a slave at heart I just haven't found the right man yet, or whatever.

I was 23 - I really hate to think that my entire identity was something that another person could pin down in ten seconds when I couldn't do it myself at that point. Somehow, in spite of the switching that I engage in with T - I don't think this "slave heart" is going to waste in some fashion for me. I think *most* people in relationships of smitten adoration will do whatever they humanly can for the other and try anything once that sounds good, and that's what it boils down to, in my case and in his. "Sexually I'd pretty much let you do anything you want to me" is how he said it long ago, and that's pretty much it.

This kind of thing (research being a slave before you think you're not, grasshopper!) royally fucked with my head and kept me from focusing on what I really actually am and wanted in the first place - my own submissives. The community saw that I liked getting hit in the ass with things and everything is a nail when you have a hammer, so please please little Netzie, don't neglect this beautiful tender submissive side of you (oh god) when you look for a partner. (thank God I did)

I like getting hit in the ass with things because my brain works. It's really not a personality test, endorphins are human biology.

Anyhow, nuff about me - we know you're a pyl - but while this may not be fun or popular, I'll venture this: sometimes the shit you keep hitting your head on is, like, there for a reason. Sometimes looking to be a slave if you're a submissive or a submissive if you are a slave is a dire act of shoving a ten inch plug into an ass virgin, it's not happening.

Quit encouraging the females to rebellion!

Commitment to a relationship, devotion to a partner - if you have a vagina, that means the guy with the cock is in charge!!! The more commitment you feel, the more authority he should possess!!!

FOR GOD's SAKE, WOMAN! Stop trying to fuck with the natural order of things!!!

 

[Netzach]

Quit encouraging the females to rebellion!

Commitment to a relationship, devotion to a partner - if you have a vagina, that means the guy with the cock is in charge!!! The more commitment you feel, the more authority he should possess!!!

FOR GOD's SAKE, WOMAN! Stop trying to fuck with the natural order of things!!!

Haha!

To be fair I think this person would have been fine had my true slave nature been channeled by a chick too, who knows the agendas.

A lot of people just want other people to find the super awesomeness they've found in life. You don't need religion to be like that.

 

[JMohegan]

Haha!

To be fair I think this person would have been fine had my true slave nature been channeled by a chick too, who knows the agendas.

A lot of people just want other people to find the super awesomeness they've found in life. You don't need religion to be like that.

That is so true, and it's not just kink. People can get evangelical about exercise plans, specific diets, and every other darn thing.

 

[Netzach]

That is so true, and it's not just kink. People can get evangelical about exercise plans, specific diets, and every other darn thing.

Yes. So I hang on to my Kosher salt at all times, and yet it's still really useful to talk to other people and see what makes them tick, I've definitely benefitted from doing so more often than not.

 

[graceanne]

I wouldn't worry too much about what you call yourself, chy. Whether it is slave or sub, you will always find someone who doesn't agree with what you call yourself. I've been told by some that I should label myself a slave, and by others that they don't think I'm a bottom at all. *shrugs* Everyone has a different definition of each of the labels; all that's important is how you define those labels and what you consider yourself to be.

 

[chy_girl]

I wouldn't worry too much about what you call yourself, chy. Whether it is slave or sub, you will always find someone who doesn't agree with what you call yourself. I've been told by some that I should label myself a slave, and by others that they don't think I'm a bottom at all. *shrugs* Everyone has a different definition of each of the labels; all that's important is how you define those labels and what you consider yourself to be.

And that's the long and short of it right there when it comes to submissive vs. slave at the moment. The name isn't here or there (yes, these words *are* coming out of my mouth) - it's the desire is what I'm concerned with. Specifically how this desire can be fucked with if certain components of this slave heart thing aren't getting met when it comes to the service orientation.

It's very jumbled around at the moment. But it makes sense in my head. A lot of sense in my head. Now it's just a matter of penning the thoughts and sufficiently explaining to Specific People that I don't want to be a slave, I just want to serve Them with freely given devotion and loyalty to the very best of my ability while enjoying the comfort and security that creates... Now give please give me another task, damn it.

 

[Homburg]

As well it should. We crossed this line roughly 150 years ago, vile practices of the modern underground trade notwithstanding.

It's not my place to tell M/s aficionados what to call themselves. But it seems to me that embracing one's "heart path," in consensual surrender to a specifically chosen "right partner," might be less confusing if the kinky world picked a term that actually fit.

The brain is the largest sexual organ, and some people are apparently turned on by those words. I should know, I live with two of them. People don't use words that fit in this milieu. They use words that turn them on.

But if you want to argue about using words that actually fit, you will immerse yourself in the very argument you were decrying a few threads back with the "if there is no true, then there is no false" idea.

 

[JMohegan]

The brain is the largest sexual organ, and some people are apparently turned on by those words. I should know, I live with two of them. People don't use words that fit in this milieu. They use words that turn them on.

But if you want to argue about using words that actually fit, you will immerse yourself in the very argument you were decrying a few threads back with the "if there is no true, then there is no false" idea.

I was responding here to Geoff's comment about how: "Society conditions us to be repelled by the very notion of slavery practically from birth."

There's a reason we're taught to be repelled by real slavery, as in: the nonconsensual, you don't get to pick your 'Master,' kind. As I'm sure you would agree, that is a vile and repulsive practice, having no place in BDSM or any kink you'd ever embrace. Right?

As for consensual "slavery," as practiced by modern kinky folk, of course it's okay for people to label themselves whatever gets them hot. There's no true/false, because it's a fabricated construct.

This is, in fact, precisely the same point I was making on the other thread.

 

[Keroin]

Apologies for the following hijack...

Every time I see this thread title I think of this.

/hijack.

 

[intothewoods]

Apologies for the following hijack...

Every time I see this thread title I think of this.

/hijack.

LOL, you are a freak, K, and I mean that in the best possible way.

 

[00Syd]

As well it should. We crossed this line roughly 150 years ago, vile practices of the modern underground trade notwithstanding.

It's not my place to tell M/s aficionados what to call themselves. But it seems to me that embracing one's "heart path," in consensual surrender to a specifically chosen "right partner," might be less confusing if the kinky world picked a term that actually fit.

Oh man, I actually agree with you on this. Wild.


ETA: And yeah, duh, the term slave is really hot to some people, but I kind of feel like if it was reserved for hot-ass roleplaying or something like that, and there was a less charged term that was used by the kinky world for the DS/relationship dynamic/heart path "slave" then things would be a lot simpler for a lot of people who are trying to figure this shit out.

But, ugh, this is such a pointless conversation to get into. So whatever. Ideal world v real world stuff.

 

[00Syd]

Apologies for the following hijack...

Every time I see this thread title I think of this.

/hijack.

That was my favorite Dr. Seuss book when I was a kid

 

[Evil_Geoff]

No beefs with Rosco, Netz, or JMohegan.

But y'all know damned good and well that I'm not a He man and in charge, she woman and gotta do the housework is the "natural order" kinda guy and would never make that the basis for explaining what I do or that anyone else should follow such a philosophy. Plenty of male subs/bottoms/slaves are out there following their heart's path because they met the right person to surrender to. Whether it was MALE PYL they fell for or a FEMALE. Jeeezbus. Stop looking for boogeymen, I ain't Bloved.

Existing relationship terminology sucks because the terminology has always been about heterosexual, socially normative stuff. We're out in the wilderness somewhere making shit up as we go, or more properly, re-doing what other before us have done but historians flat out ignore and actively try to hide.

Non-consentual slavery as an institution is indeed a vile practice. But Master/slave fantasies are some of the most common ones around. So are rape fantasies, and yet we would almost all agree that actual rape is a hideous thing to do to another human being.

Calling a Master/slave relationship a "power exchange" or an "authority transfer" or a "Consensual-Non-consent" relationship might be a more accurate description, but it's all clinical and shit. And unless you're into medical terminology it isn't going to make ya hard or wet. Meh.

I did like the "uber kinked for service" description though. Floats my boat!

 

[Keroin]

LOL, you are a freak, K, and I mean that in the best possible way.

Not to worry, I would have taken it in the best possible way anyway. But thanks!

That was my favorite Dr. Seuss book when I was a kid

It's a tie between that one and The Lorax for me.

We have a music festival here in the Kootenays called the "Starbelly Jam", it's hugely popular. Very hippie.

 

[Netzach]

No beefs with Rosco, Netz, or JMohegan.

But y'all know damned good and well that I'm not a He man and in charge, she woman and gotta do the housework is the "natural order" kinda guy and would never make that the basis for explaining what I do or that anyone else should follow such a philosophy. Plenty of male subs/bottoms/slaves are out there following their heart's path because they met the right person to surrender to. Whether it was MALE PYL they fell for or a FEMALE. Jeeezbus. Stop looking for boogeymen, I ain't Bloved.

Existing relationship terminology sucks because the terminology has always been about heterosexual, socially normative stuff. We're out in the wilderness somewhere making shit up as we go, or more properly, re-doing what other before us have done but historians flat out ignore and actively try to hide.

Non-consentual slavery as an institution is indeed a vile practice. But Master/slave fantasies are some of the most common ones around. So are rape fantasies, and yet we would almost all agree that actual rape is a hideous thing to do to another human being.

Calling a Master/slave relationship a "power exchange" or an "authority transfer" or a "Consensual-Non-consent" relationship might be a more accurate description, but it's all clinical and shit. And unless you're into medical terminology it isn't going to make ya hard or wet. Meh.

I did like the "uber kinked for service" description though. Floats my boat!

No personal slight intended.

I'm just relating my experience in het side of pansexual community in one of its less rosy aspects as it played out for me.

There is a huge amount of peer pressure toward being submissive and especially a slave if there's any inclination to like whacky things and you have a pussy, IME.

If you have a pussy you just must not be thinking about it rationally and clearly and you must be blocking your true nature if you have any reservations about giving yourself in slavery in the magical right relationship.

This is what I've experienced firsthand. Maybe it's not like this in ATL, but I have a feeling there's some of that going on, because I've felt it and seen it all over.

Then there's all this frustration with people claiming to be slaves when they're bottoms after the application of absurd peer pressure, especially on newbies and younger newbies "you can't know what you want in your early 20's, how do you know you are NOT a slave?" Then this girl who never said she was in it for other than getting off but good gets a reputation as "difficult." I hate to sound all BLoved but I actually *have* mentored the aftermath of this, and a lovely giving fun soul she is too, just actually wants to *get off* and gets treated like persona non grata for it.

I see so many wonderful and lovely people being molded changed and behaviorally tweaked into insanity as often as into refined and productive versions of whatever kind of submissive they actually ARE. Do not buy a slot toaster and try making a roast in it.

It's a weird malaise and I like to stay away from it.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Who's beefin' ?

Release the worms!

 

[JMohegan]

No beefs with Rosco, Netz, or JMohegan.

But y'all know damned good and well that I'm not a He man and in charge, she woman and gotta do the housework is the "natural order" kinda guy and would never make that the basis for explaining what I do or that anyone else should follow such a philosophy. Plenty of male subs/bottoms/slaves are out there following their heart's path because they met the right person to surrender to. Whether it was MALE PYL they fell for or a FEMALE. Jeeezbus. Stop looking for boogeymen, I ain't Bloved.

Existing relationship terminology sucks because the terminology has always been about heterosexual, socially normative stuff. We're out in the wilderness somewhere making shit up as we go, or more properly, re-doing what other before us have done but historians flat out ignore and actively try to hide.

Non-consentual slavery as an institution is indeed a vile practice. But Master/slave fantasies are some of the most common ones around. So are rape fantasies, and yet we would almost all agree that actual rape is a hideous thing to do to another human being.

Calling a Master/slave relationship a "power exchange" or an "authority transfer" or a "Consensual-Non-consent" relationship might be a more accurate description, but it's all clinical and shit. And unless you're into medical terminology it isn't going to make ya hard or wet. Meh.

I did like the "uber kinked for service" description though. Floats my boat!

Lots of exclamation points and little angry faces in post 26 meant I was just goofin' around. I know you're not the boogeyman, Geoff, no worries.

As for the labeling thing, I hear you on the clinical part. But I don't call myself a "rapist", and don't refer to partners as "rape victims" - even though I find rape fantasies ridiculously hot, and have enjoyed plenty of consensual non-consent in my day.

At any rate, as I said, it's not my place to tell other folks what to call themselves. I was just making an observation, in direct reference to your post about the struggles some people have in embracing the "slave" ID.

 

[intothewoods]

<snip>

I did like the "uber kinked for service" description though. Floats my boat!

Me too, especially when I imagine in it a German accent.

Not to worry, I would have taken it in the best possible way anyway. But thanks!

There's no bad kind of freak!

Before anyone gets up in my grill for hijacking, this thread is in the cafe, so bite me!

 

[Homburg]

As for consensual "slavery," as practiced by modern kinky folk, of course it's okay for people to label themselves whatever gets them hot. There's no true/false, because it's a fabricated construct.

Then why make the comment in the first place? If it is so "okay", why do you question it?

 

[Stella_Omega]

No personal slight intended.

I'm just relating my experience in het side of pansexual community in one of its less rosy aspects as it played out for me.

There is a huge amount of peer pressure toward being submissive and especially a slave if there's any inclination to like whacky things and you have a pussy, IME.

If you have a pussy you just must not be thinking about it rationally and clearly and you must be blocking your true nature if you have any reservations about giving yourself in slavery in the magical right relationship.

This is what I've experienced firsthand. Maybe it's not like this in ATL, but I have a feeling there's some of that going on, because I've felt it and seen it all over.

Then there's all this frustration with people claiming to be slaves when they're bottoms after the application of absurd peer pressure, especially on newbies and younger newbies "you can't know what you want in your early 20's, how do you know you are NOT a slave?" Then this girl who never said she was in it for other than getting off but good gets a reputation as "difficult." I hate to sound all BLoved but I actually *have* mentored the aftermath of this, and a lovely giving fun soul she is too, just actually wants to *get off* and gets treated like persona non grata for it.

I see so many wonderful and lovely people being molded changed and behaviorally tweaked into insanity as often as into refined and productive versions of whatever kind of submissive they actually ARE. Do not buy a slot toaster and try making a roast in it.

It's a weird malaise and I like to stay away from it.

You and Evil_Geoff can speak for me, any day.

 

[JMohegan]

Then why make the comment in the first place? If it is so "okay", why do you question it?

My comments were made in the context of a discussion of people who struggle in embracing the "slave" ID, and specifically in response to Geoff's reference to society's messages on slavery. See the post to which I was responding, below.

What's funny to me about this exchange, Homburg, is that I remember when you and your wife were struggling with the decision of whether to redefine your marriage as M/s. I recall that you were unsure as to whether your dynamic fit the label. And I remember that I specifically told you not to worry about it, and to embrace whatever terms feel right and get you hot.

I'll say it again, now that you clearly do. Embrace whatever terms feel right and get you hot. And quit being so defensive.

Ever heard of the expression "Trust your gut." There ya go.

Society conditions us to be repelled by the very notion of slavery practically from birth. But for many, it is the path to emotional safety and security. For them to KNOW without a doubt that they are owned, they have their place, that they are cared for, respected, many times very much loved (not always wanted or needed but for many that's the bond that makes the surrender possible) is the key to freedom to be their true self.

Many times when we struggle against something it is the struggle between our heart's path, and the expectations we put on our selves and the expectations our parents/society put on us. Think of the mental and emotional struggles many gay and lesbian and transsexual people have to go through before they can make peace with who they really are, as opposed to what parents/society say they should be.

Hell, I struggled with years to accept the fact that I AM a sadist. Really. Enjoy the fuck out of inflicting pain, causing fear, etc. In my mind, because of all the years of conditioning "you never hit a woman, you should be a gentleman, it's wrong to hurt people" yada, yada, yada... I was a mess because all my fantasies surrounded kidnapping and torturing women. *sighs*

I was in my mid thirties when I found this lifestyle, and started working my way to self-honesty, healing and wholeness. I hope your journey to inner peace doesn't take you on a ride as long as mine has been.

 

[Primalex]

Calling a Master/slave relationship a "power exchange" or an "authority transfer" or a "Consensual-Non-consent" relationship might be a more accurate description, but it's all clinical and shit. And unless you're into medical terminology it isn't going to make ya hard or wet. Meh.

Amen.

 

[Homburg]

My comments were made in the context of a discussion of people who struggle in embracing the "slave" ID, and specifically in response to Geoff's reference to society's messages on slavery. See the post to which I was responding, below.

What's funny to me about this exchange, Homburg, is that I remember when you and your wife were struggling with the decision of whether to redefine your marriage as M/s. I recall that you were unsure as to whether your dynamic fit the label. And I remember that I specifically told you not to worry about it, and to embrace whatever terms feel right and get you hot.

I'll say it again, now that you clearly do. Embrace whatever terms feel right and get you hot. And quit being so defensive.

I'm sorry if I sounded defensive. It was not my intent. I guess I'm just getting frustrated at the panoply of definitional arguments going on and am trying to understand your, my, and everyone else's involvement in them recently.

As to your specific advice, I've still yet to find terms that get me hot. I use what I use out of convenience, and, as I've said before, because it sets my partners off nicely. I see the terminology thing to be yet another fetish and it is difficult for me to grok that sort of treatment of language.

 

[graceanne]

For me, all the terms seem silly. We don't use them in real life unless someone asks us what our labels are. Sometimes, during sex, he'll have me call him by whatever label is floating his boat, but as for me . . . 'eh'.

I'm me. He's him. That's enough for us.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm sorry if I sounded defensive. It was not my intent. I guess I'm just getting frustrated at the panoply of definitional arguments going on and am trying to understand your, my, and everyone else's involvement in them recently.

As to your specific advice, I've still yet to find terms that get me hot. I use what I use out of convenience, and, as I've said before, because it sets my partners off nicely. I see the terminology thing to be yet another fetish and it is difficult for me to grok that sort of treatment of language.

Apology appreciated, though unnecessary. Thanks for explaining.