Should Lit Deplorables be able to own a gun?

[RoryN]

They often bring up "mental health" in gun discussions.

Based on many of their posts here, it begs the question in the thread subject...

 

[Dribble]

Some are responsible. Some are sicker than sick and need help. Those are very capable of killing someone and making some excuse.

What we do know, the more data we collect, there is a direct correlation between those that post online hate and those mostly involved in mass murder today. This was not always the case. Unfortunately, we can only look at their hate and see this connection after the fact...and that is the bitch of it. How can we connect Point A with Point B before Point B happens?

 

[Paul_Chance]

Some are responsible. Some are sicker than sick and need help. Those are very capable of killing someone and making some excuse.

What we do know, the more data we collect, there is a direct correlation between those that post online hate and those mostly involved in mass murder today. This was not always the case. Unfortunately, we can only look at their hate and see this connection after the fact...and that is the bitch of it. How can we connect Point A with Point B before Point B happens?

That's the challenge - trying to predict future crime. With it comes the underlying philosophical question - is it just to punish a person because they MIGHT commit a crime.

 

[AlexBailey]

Some are responsible. Some are sicker than sick and need help. Those are very capable of killing someone and making some excuse.

What we do know, the more data we collect, there is a direct correlation between those that post online hate and those mostly involved in mass murder today. This was not always the case. Unfortunately, we can only look at their hate and see this connection after the fact...and that is the bitch of it. How can we connect Point A with Point B before Point B happens?

Right? And in the places that now allow open carry it is perfectly legal for someone to walk down the street fully armed and there is no legal reason to intervene until they have leveled their gun at someone.

A bus load of right wing terrorists can show up at their whim to intimidate politicians and people who they disagree with and they can just claim to be going for a walk.

 

[phrodeau]

Snailspace keeps his upstairs, which is a wise move.

https://forum.literotica.com/thread...do-i-moved-them-to-the.1588900/#post-97042019

 

[Dribble]

That's the challenge - trying to predict future crime. With it comes the underlying philosophical question - is it just to punish a person because they MIGHT commit a crime.

But that's the point. When I went through my divorce...I went to the sheriff and gave them my guns to hold. I told them I was not having bad ideas but that I was depressed and didn't want to be tempted to do something stupid. A year and half later...I went to them and told them it was time to give them back to me. It took a week of pestering every day...but I still have them today. A responsible gun owner should act responsibly. That is the problem. Irresponsible people should not have guns. We don't let them drive. I don't see the difference. But I don't see it as a punishment...but as an opportunity to prove you are responsible.

If you are charged with a violent domestic act...you should not be able to buy a gun that week. It is insanity.

 

[Paul_Chance]

But that's the point. When I went through my divorce...I went to the sheriff and gave them my guns to hold. I told them I was not having bad ideas but that I was depressed and didn't want to be tempted to do something stupid. A year and half later...I went to them and told them it was time to give them back to me. It took a week of pestering every day...but I still have them today. A responsible gun owner should act responsibly. That is the problem. Irresponsible people should not have guns. We don't let them drive. I don't see the difference. But I don't see it as a punishment...but as an opportunity to prove you are responsible.

If you are charged with a violent domestic act...you should not be able to buy a gun that week. It is insanity.

First, congratulations for having the wisdom to recognize you were in a time of mental crisis and taking steps to insure your own safety.

Who decides who is an irresponsible person and what process is used to come to that conclusion, and what rights would you allow the accused to have, keeping in mind the jurisprudence of America and the attendant rights?

Don't get me wrong, I am all for people making responsible decisions for themselves, and can and do support efforts to make available resources to aid them in those decisions.

It seems to me a pretty huge potential intrusion on individual liberty. Would the same process be used for any potential weapon?

 

[Dribble]

First, congratulations for having the wisdom to recognize you were in a time of mental crisis and taking steps to insure your own safety.

Who decides who is an irresponsible person and what process is used to come to that conclusion, and what rights would you allow the accused to have, keeping in mind the jurisprudence of America and the attendant rights?

Don't get me wrong, I am all for people making responsible decisions for themselves, and can and do support efforts to make available resources to aid them in those decisions.

It seems to me a pretty huge potential intrusion on individual liberty. Would the same process be used for any potential weapon?

Tough question. No other country in the World other than anarchist societies have this problem. Obviously...it is societal. So we start there.

Edit: example: Why does Ja Morant still have a job? Still have endorsements? The NBA and Memphis Grizzlies are basically telling youth society will turn a blind eye if you can play basketball. To me...that's fucked up. He was given a chance. But now after 6 occurrences we still are turning a blind eye. So start there. Show the youth your choices have consequences

 

[Paul_Chance]

Tough question. No other country in the World other than anarchist societies have this problem. Obviously...it is societal. So we start there

There is no easy road from here (a nation-state with very permissive firearms laws) to there (a nation-state with near total individual non-possession). The starting point would, legal, would be a constitutional amendment, which is a very high bar. Changing a society is a massive task (though, ironically, a society will change itself rapidly when it sees benefit to it).

 

[coati]

No, mentally ill people should not be allowed to own a gun, so that rules out several of the Lit Deplorables.

Good point.

 

[LittleSwitchy]

First, congratulations for having the wisdom to recognize you were in a time of mental crisis and taking steps to insure your own safety.

Who decides who is an irresponsible person and what process is used to come to that conclusion, and what rights would you allow the accused to have, keeping in mind the jurisprudence of America and the attendant rights?

Don't get me wrong, I am all for people making responsible decisions for themselves, and can and do support efforts to make available resources to aid them in those decisions.

It seems to me a pretty huge potential intrusion on individual liberty. Would the same process be used for any potential weapon?

I believe the question is…
Have you ever been adjudicated by a court to be a danger to yourself or others, found not guilty by reason of insanity, incompetent to stand trail, or placed in conservativeship?
One of 4 questions asked in California in the DROS. These 4 questions are asked for every firearm purchased. In addition to the ATF 4473.

 

[LittleSwitchy]

But that's the point. When I went through my divorce...I went to the sheriff and gave them my guns to hold. I told them I was not having bad ideas but that I was depressed and didn't want to be tempted to do something stupid. A year and half later...I went to them and told them it was time to give them back to me. It took a week of pestering every day...but I still have them today. A responsible gun owner should act responsibly. That is the problem. Irresponsible people should not have guns. We don't let them drive. I don't see the difference. But I don't see it as a punishment...but as an opportunity to prove you are responsible.

If you are charged with a violent domestic act...you should not be able to buy a gun that week. It is insanity.

The question used when buying a firearm is..
Have you EVER been convicted of a felony or violent misdemeanor?
Depending on where you live. Domestic violence can be a misdemeanor, wobbler “ they can go misdemeanor or felony on the charge “ , felony. It depends on what exactly they charge the person with.

 

[schism666]

let's look at our resident gun nuts

vetteman dba rightguide - conspiracy theory wackjob with an identity crisis.

ish dba chobum - 2a freak, lush, 2nd civil war proponent, baby killer.

aj dba vinny/joepepsico - habitual liar, fake libertarian, confused by his own sexuality which is one of the right's go to, "you must be insane if you're gay!" canards.

none of these nutters would qualify by their own qualifications.

 

[RoryN]

none of these nutters would qualify by their own qualifications.

Agreed.