Should authors hold each other up, or tear them down?

[SimonDoom]

Vote on your own story if you want to - there's no shame in doing so. Some folk like to denigrate those who do it, but that's their issue, not yours.

In the end, it's one vote, and in the long run, probably no big deal. In the short term, it can be useful. Besides which, who would know?

This is my attitude as well. The tools of this site exist for you to use them as you see fit so long as you do so honestly and without malice. Vote on your own story if you want.

I don't usually do this, because I like the idea that my score isn't tainted by my own vote for it. But I've done it a handful of times, usually soon after publication, where I thought my vote could tip the story over 4.5 and give it a boost in visibility. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[KeithD]

Thank you.

As I read though the thread it amazed me a little what an issue that mean votes were. I guess I should not have been surprised. I still want to thank those here, and I think most all of you on this thread I've seen and at times conversed with through the forums ... and you've all been very helpful.

There's no reason to thank LC for anything on this thread. He's just trolling along on his stalking campaign.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't think 1 bombs are rare. I've tracked my stories at times within the first few hours of publication, and it's obvious when I've received 1s because of what happens to the overall score. I've also had anonymous readers tell me flat-out that they've given me 1s, usually because they didn't like the subject matter. It seems to be a phenomenon that is most likely to happen immediately after a story is posted, but I don't think it's an urban legend. It's a real thing.

Oops - I didn't make myself clear.

I meant the chance of seventeen one-bombs in an evening was rare, especially for a writer who doesn't write in the usual candidate categories for trolling down stories. That's a targeted attack in my view - the odds against seventeen (genuine) ones in a row is like seventeen heads in a row in a coin toss, extremely remote.

But the attack one-bombs will most likely disappear in a sweep, so it's also a pointless gesture.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't usually do this, because I like the idea that my score isn't tainted by my own vote for it. But I've done it a handful of times, usually soon after publication, where I thought my vote could tip the story over 4.5 and give it a boost in visibility. I see nothing wrong with that.

Yep, this.

For me, it's generally all in the timing out of the gate. If it's a slower moving category, I might give a story a nudge to get ten votes over the line. But if I wake up and a story already has twenty or so votes, and the score is travelling okay, I won't bother.

Tainted is the wrong word, though. A vote is a vote, and once you've got the Red H pulling more eyes to the story, it's the continued extra votes that matter; and we don't say they're tainted.

 

[CyranoJ]

As I read though the thread it amazed me a little what an issue that mean votes were.

Don't take the word of the individual you're replying to at face value. They have a very long history of being notoriously prone to conspiracy theories (sometimes very wild ones) and are not someone whose perspective on the issue can be relied upon at all.

 

[HopelessDreams]

But I've done it a handful of times, usually soon after publication, where I thought my vote could tip the story over 4.5 and give it a boost in visibility. I see nothing wrong with that.

As a general practice, that would tend to bias those stories toward getting more views than they deserve relative to the other new stories (though there is also a lot of chance involved in the early scores). Still, I think it could be justified if that author really, really wants that story to attract more views. Besides, stories (especially the new "hot" ones) get downvoted if readers think they're overrated. Likewise, readers preferentially upvote stories that they think are underrated. In the long run, voting on your own story makes little difference to its final score. (I myself have not voted on any of my own stories.)

 

[KeithD]

Still, I think it could be justified if that author really, really wants that story to attract more views.

Why would someone post a story to Literotica for free read if they didn't want to attract as many reads of it as possible? Guess that means you get marked as being in favor of voting on your own story (once)? That's fine.

 

[HopelessDreams]

Why would someone post a story to Literotica for free read if they didn't want to attract as many reads of it as possible?

We don't necessarily want each one of our stories to attract as many readers as possible; we may want a story's viewership to be more targeted to an audience that we think will enjoy it more. This also tends to be better for the readers. And though I do generally prefer my stories to receive more views than more enjoyment per reader, I do draw the line somewhere.

 

[KeithD]

We don't necessarily want each one of our stories to attract as many readers as possible; we may want a story's viewership to be more targeted to an audience that we think will enjoy it more. This also tends to be better for the readers. And though I do generally prefer my stories to receive more views than more enjoyment per reader, I do draw the line somewhere.

I'll take that as the royal "we." I think what I posted would cover wanting as many of the targeted readers as possible open it up and give it a chance.

 

[PennameWombat]

I'll take that as the royal "we." I think what I posted would cover wanting as many of the targeted readers as possible open it up and give it a chance.

I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t want as many people as are reasonable to at least view their story. I write what I enjoy writing, which I know isn’t for everyone, but I don’t intentionally try to write for any sort of exclusive audience.

That said, I’ve always kept 8Letters analysis of a snapshot of Literotica reading history in mind. What it told me was that the categories that I enjoy writing for, and reading, are not the heaviest traffic categories, by and large. Thus, I’m not likely to get the Big Big Numbers. I‘m close, but I’ve never broken 50,000 views, much less 100,000+ for a story.

I would like more information around whether readers find my stories via tags, via following my profile or random chance. I always use the maximum number of tags, but have very little info beyond the Category tags word cloud the site provides, if any are actually useful. But, before any of the cynics chime in, I don’t expect the site to give me that before the heat death of the universe.

 

[SimonDoom]

I would like more information around whether readers find my stories via tags, via following my profile or random chance. I always use the maximum number of tags, but have very little info beyond the Category tags word cloud the site provides, if any are actually useful. But, before any of the cynics chime in, I don’t expect the site to give me that before the heat death of the universe.

This sort of thing makes me curious as well. Why? I don't know, but it does. Here's an idea: ask them. If you get a comment from someone who identifies himself/herself, contact them and ask them how they found your story.

The Site isn't likely to give you more information than it already does, but you might be able to get some from readers.

This would be a cool feature: if you could compile a list of readers who have commented on your stories and identified themselves, and you could create a mass message list and message them with a question, of course giving them an option to be removed from the list.

 

[NotWise]

This would be a cool feature: if you could compile a list of readers who have commented on your stories and identified themselves, and you could create a mass message list and message them with a question, of course giving them an option to be removed from the list.

I'm sure the readers would just love being spammed.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm sure the readers would just love being spammed.

Raining on my parade. You might be right, though.

But if you think about it, why is it any more spamming for an author to reply to a reader than for a reader to reply to an author? How is it different from replying individually to reader comments, something I think most would not regard as spam?

 

[8letters]

Raining on my parade. You might be right, though.

But if you think about it, why is it any more spamming for an author to reply to a reader than for a reader to reply to an author? How is it different from replying individually to reader comments, something I think most would not regard as spam?

I've replied to commenters a number of times. I think once I got a response back.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've replied to commenters a number of times. I think once I got a response back.

That's interesting. I've gotten some replies when I've replied, but I never thought about asking questions about how they found me, and I don't know if they would be willing to give that information. Usually my replies were along the lines of, "Thanks for saying something nice about my story." Which didn't really invite further discussion.

 

[Comshaw]

On the OP's question, fellow authors will give you advice, comments, encouragement, there are those who are happy to do that. I've seen a huge amount of good advice in this forum while I've been here. BUT don't expect it from all of them. Like all groups of humans, you'll get those who want to help and those who enjoy making other people's lives miserable. (see CyranoJ's post for a more in depth explanation) That's just the way the world is. Stick around for a while and you'll begin to differentiate between those factions. You'll know who to listen to and whom to ignore.

As far as voting on my own stories, I don't here. I know how I feel about my work. I post my stories to see how others (via voting) feel about it. I have done that on another site in the past. The only reason I did was they didn't have a new story page that listed the stories chronologically. When a story was posted if it had no votes a "0" in the vote column it went to the bottom of the page.

1 votes. I know I get them from time to time. I have no idea who votes them. This site, unlike another that I frequent, doesn't let you know who voted what. I think that's a disservice to the authors. But even if we did know I'd bet 10 to 1 that the vast majority would be from that asshat “anonymous”. Because they do allow anonymous votes it's a simple matter to log out, vote and log back in. And it's as easy to do it multiple times, without an IP address giving you away. All that said, I'm sure there are a few authors who do this, but my own sense of self-worth and fair play won't allow me to believe that many do. I think it's a very small minority. I believe most 1 votes come from readers, rabid fans who want their favorite authors to be on top and don't mind cheating to make it so. But again, I don't think it's a large number who engage in such actions. I have no proof of it, it's just what I believe is.

CyranoJ's post on the human makeup of this place, the long running feuds, the unresolved arguments, those who want to be a big fish in a little pond and the other things he listed was spot on. I've said it before, I'm an observer. I love to watch the inter-actions of others. I'm a lay student of human psychology and sociology. Over my years on this earth I've been a part of many different types of organizations. I can say with certainty that his explanation is a perfect synopsis of most ALL organizations and groups of humans. Everyone one of us aren't the same. We don't think the same, act the same or even have the same values. And for my money that's a good thing. It would be boring in deed if we all we're carbon copies of each other.

'putting things in perspective' only gets you so far.
To put it hyperbolically: The fact that the Jews had it very bad under the nazis isn't going to help a kid feel any less miserable about being bullied in school - for instance. The fact that large atrocities are committed is no excuse for day to day small atrocious behaviour.

I don't think that was meant of implied. Perspective for someone who has life experience is a good thing. Those who are innocent, ignorant of what is or can be, not so much. An analogy: If someone has ever been injured to an extent they were close to death and recovered, who later received an injury that required a few stitches, their (not all) perspective is that the stitches are a minor inconvenience. A person without that perspective would consider the stitches to be a major incident. Those who have never been in a Hurricane may think a thunderstorm is the worse storm ever. Perspective.

That's a rather conical interpretation of my post.

As a matter of education (mine) would you mind explaining how you equate that interpretation of your post as cone shaped? Or have I missed a definition for the word conical?

Comshaw

 

[MillieDynamite]

con·i·cal (khttps://app.masterwriter.com/core/images/specialchars/obreve.gifnhttps://app.masterwriter.com/core/images/specialchars/prime.gifhttps://app.masterwriter.com/core/images/specialchars/ibreve.gif-khttps://app.masterwriter.com/core/images/specialchars/schwa.gifl) Of, relating to, or shaped like a cone.

 

[Bubo_bubo]

I don't think that was meant of implied. Perspective for someone who has life experience is a good thing. Those who are innocent, ignorant of what is or can be, not so much. An analogy: If someone has ever been injured to an extent they were close to death and recovered, who later received an injury that required a few stitches, their (not all) perspective is that the stitches are a minor inconvenience. A person without that perspective would consider the stitches to be a major incident. Those who have never been in a Hurricane may think a thunderstorm is the worse storm ever. Perspective.

My point is perspective gets you only so far. And can be used to make little of actual problems (because there are bigger problems around it doesn't mean that the less big problems aren't still problems). I put it just a bit hyperbolically.
And that gets us the next point

As a matter of education (mine) would you mind explaining how you equate that interpretation of your post as cone shaped? Or have I missed a definition for the word conical?

Comshaw

Hyperbolically/Hyperbolic can refer to hyperbole, the style figure, but can also be interpreted (as Duleigh did by mentioning plane geometry) as referring to hyperbola, a type of curve in a plane, that's one of three types of curves that are known as conic sections (the other two being the ellipse and the parabola). And I played of the resemblance to comical.
Maybe I was a bit too elliptical in my comment.

 

[Comshaw]

My point is perspective gets you only so far. And can be used to make little of actual problems (because there are bigger problems around it doesn't mean that the less big problems aren't still problems). I put it just a bit hyperbolically.
And that gets us the next point


Hyperbolically/Hyperbolic can refer to hyperbole, the style figure, but can also be interpreted (as Duleigh did by mentioning plane geometry) as referring to hyperbola, a type of curve in a plane, that's one of three types of curves that are known as conic sections (the other two being the ellipse and the parabola). And I played of the resemblance to comical.
Maybe I was a bit too elliptical in my comment.

As to perspective, again that wasn't stated nor implied. A problem of lesser impact is still a problem. The thing about perspective is with experience of a much larger difficulty, the lesser one does not carry as much impact on an individual as it would on someone without that experience. That was the point. Perspective is a matter of comparison. If a person has nothing to stand an experience next to, nothing to put it in perspective, it looms much larger than it should. A picture of a dust mite, taken through a microscope, would scare the bejesus out of a person if they didn't have the perspective of the real size of that dust mite.

I have to agree on your explanation of the comparison of that post to a cone. It was arcane. Because of that it went right over my head.

Comshaw

 

[MillieDynamite]

It was arcane.

Comshaw

I thought Arcane was a vampire!

 

[Comshaw]

I thought Arcane was a vampire!

Oh come on! I had to go look that reference up. Again ya'll be screwing with an old guy's cloistered ignorance.

Comshaw

 

[Bubo_bubo]

As to perspective, again that wasn't stated nor implied. A problem of lesser impact is still a problem. The thing about perspective is with experience of a much larger difficulty, the lesser one does not carry as much impact on an individual as it would on someone without that experience. That was the point. Perspective is a matter of comparison. If a person has nothing to stand an experience next to, nothing to put it in perspective, it looms much larger than it should. A picture of a dust mite, taken through a microscope, would scare the bejesus out of a person if they didn't have the perspective of the real size of that dust mite.

<snip>

Yes, I understand all that. And what I wanted to add to that was that having a perspective has its limits, especially if we're talking discourse on the internet.
Some of the posts have an undercurrent of "It can be so much worse!" and in general sometimes in internet discourse one gets situations where for example someone complains about sexism in the US and reactions are like "You know how bad women in the muslim world have it? Get some perspective". "Getting a perspective" is all good and well, but it is sometimes used to (try to) shut down reasonable complaints.

 

[Comshaw]

Yes, I understand all that. And what I wanted to add to that was that having a perspective has its limits, especially if we're talking discourse on the internet.
Some of the posts have an undercurrent of "It can be so much worse!" and in general sometimes in internet discourse one gets situations where for example someone complains about sexism in the US and reactions are like "You know how bad women in the muslim world have it? Get some perspective". "Getting a perspective" is all good and well, but it is sometimes used to (try to) shut down reasonable complaints.

Awwww...okay then. I think I understand your point. We've been talking past each other, which happens out here on the net a bunch. I agree, using the excuse of, "it ain't as bad as ***** so quit being cry baby" to shut down a discussion on a situation is bullshit, plain and simple. A problem is still a problem, even if it isn't as large as another of the same stripe.

Comshaw

 

[lovecraft68]

Don't take the word of the individual you're replying to at face value. They have a very long history of being notoriously prone to conspiracy theories (sometimes very wild ones) and are not someone whose perspective on the issue can be relied upon at all.

What a shock, talking about me, rather than to me. I expect no less.
The cabal was proven-even admitted-but don't let me bother you with facts.

 

[PennameWombat]

This sort of thing makes me curious as well. Why? I don't know, but it does. Here's an idea: ask them. If you get a comment from someone who identifies himself/herself, contact them and ask them how they found your story.

The Site isn't likely to give you more information than it already does, but you might be able to get some from readers.

This would be a cool feature: if you could compile a list of readers who have commented on your stories and identified themselves, and you could create a mass message list and message them with a question, of course giving them an option to be removed from the list.

There was a thread not so long ago about this suggestion (you didn't initiate it)... and I made essentially the statement I'm about to repeat.

Most of my stories have zero or one comment... and many of those comments are from Anonymouse. Don't get me wrong, I have some very complimentary comments from Anons. But, they're Anons. In the couple of cases I responded to a comment with a comment, nothing further was ever posted. In the couple of cases I tried to send a PM to a named commenter, they had PMs disabled.

So... I take your suggestion as heartfelt, but experience says it won't work. Not for me at least. It apparently works well for the person who initiated that other thread.

I could start to post in an Afterword, "hey, how'd you find this story? Send me feedback and let me know." But, that's about it.