Shop Talk: Question on Editing Style/Practices

[RogueLurker]

Below are two quotes from LadyC and kbate about documents that are returned to authors once an edit has been completed:

... you can see the editing as they've used a different colour than the writer, you can also see it because they used the reviewing feature of Microsoft Word, and they've left comment with their "name".

Interesting.. I do not always return the markup copy unless requested, Microsoft Word markup is a pain, but the stored versions can be useful for me. I prefer to return a clean copy, all changes made - and keep the editor markup for myself. If the writer asks, I tell them in a separate document why I made changes.

I'm curious as to how everyone does their editing and presents it back to the author.

I tend to mark up the document in Word or WordPad ... using either red font or yellow highlights to indicate changed/added words and strikeout font to indicate things that should be removed. Comments, suggestions, recommendations and explanations are made either in blue font right in the document or in the little side comment boxes. I refuse to use Track Changes (it is the invention of the Devil). I tend to put lots of comments in ... explaining why I changed something or think that something doesn't work, if I've noticed a pattern, identifying something that was particularly well done, etc.

I send the author the marked up document so they can see the changes, comments and explanations and then its up to them whether they want to incorporate them or not. My edits are not primarily technical or proofreading edits ... at least on the first go around.

And if I'm doing it wrong ... don't tell me. But if there's an easier method ... I'd be amenable.

 

[LadyCibelle]

Below are two quotes from LadyC and kbate about documents that are returned to authors once an edit has been completed:





I'm curious as to how everyone does their editing and presents it back to the author.

I tend to mark up the document in Word or WordPad ... using either red font or yellow highlights to indicate changed/added words and strikeout font to indicate things that should be removed. Comments, suggestions, recommendations and explanations are made either in blue font right in the document or in the little side comment boxes. I refuse to use Track Changes (it is the invention of the Devil). I tend to put lots of comments in ... explaining why I changed something or think that something doesn't work, if I've noticed a pattern, identifying something that was particularly well done, etc.

I send the author the marked up document so they can see the changes, comments and explanations and then its up to them whether they want to incorporate them or not. My edits are not primarily technical or proofreading edits ... at least on the first go around.

And if I'm doing it wrong ... don't tell me. But if there's an easier method ... I'd be amenable.

I don't think you're doing anything wrong Rogue.

I think that every editor has his/her own style of editing and what works for one might not work for the other.

Take me for example, I wouldn't be able to work the way Kbate seems to work and send a clear copy to my writers. I want them to see clearly what worked, what didn't, what needs to be changed and why...sending them a clear copy isn't effective IMHO. Some writers prefer to receive a clean copy though, some prefer my method. It's all a question of choice and personal taste I think.

 

[RogueLurker]

I don't think you're doing anything wrong Rogue.

I think that every editor has his/her own style of editing and what works for one might not work for the other.

I'm not really looking for validation, LadyC ... but thanks for the vote of confidence. The authors I work with on an ongoing basis seem to like the system I use. I was curious what other methods people employ, why they do it that way ... I'm always willing to learn a new trick or two and think outside my tiny little box.

 

[CopyCarver]

Below are two quotes from LadyC and kbate about documents that are returned to authors once an edit has been completed:

I'm curious as to how everyone does their editing and presents it back to the author.

I tend to mark up the document in Word or WordPad ... using either red font or yellow highlights to indicate changed/added words and strikeout font to indicate things that should be removed. Comments, suggestions, recommendations and explanations are made either in blue font right in the document or in the little side comment boxes. I refuse to use Track Changes (it is the invention of the Devil). I tend to put lots of comments in ... explaining why I changed something or think that something doesn't work, if I've noticed a pattern, identifying something that was particularly well done, etc.

I send the author the marked up document so they can see the changes, comments and explanations and then its up to them whether they want to incorporate them or not. My edits are not primarily technical or proofreading edits ... at least on the first go around.

And if I'm doing it wrong ... don't tell me. But if there's an easier method ... I'd be amenable.

Unfortunately, there isn't any really good way to edit over the Net.
(There's nothing like being able to hand the marked up paper to the
writers--or even being able to mail it to them.)

Track Changes does indeed suck. The computer's description of the changes rarely reflects the actual change and never allows the possibility of exploring nuances or explaining our reasoning. When working with beginners, or those who have produced a really rough ms, the margins get so cluttered with notations that they become almost unintelligible.

Like you, I usually highlight problem areas in a contrasting color on Word, and then supplement that with a separate Word doc, keyed to paragraph numbers, that explains why I’m suggesting changes, offers options, etc.

I’ve had some manuscripts that had only one or two tiny glitches and others for which the explanation sheet literally ran to four single-spaced pages.

This approach works for me and appears to work for most of “my” writers, but it’s still a poor substitute for face-to-face dialogue.

 

[FallingToFly]

(First really big issue is the capitalization. Any proper name, pronoun such as I or beginning of a sentence MUST be capitilized. It's not an option, it's a requirement. Second is your punctuation. You have a very bad habit of just sticking a comma in when you should put a period and start a new sentence.)
~~~Linde's POV~~~
I was smashed, there was too much shit going on, I tried talking to Ville after recording but he left with Seppo to go to lunch. I swear, he's a moron, I love him anyway. (The structure of this entire sentence is hard to read. It's easier on the eye and the mind if you break it up. "I was smashed, and there was too much shit going on. I tried talking to Ville after recording." I'd make this "after we were done with the recording session for the day," but he left with Seppo to go to lunch. I swear he's a moron, but I love him anyway. )

"Excuse me sir, is there anything else you would like?" I looked at the bartender (who was trying to get my attention). He was pretty cute actually, young (and here I'd put in a description of the bartender so we get a feel for what Linde considers cute.) Still, he was an asshole. (You need to start a new paragraph every time you start a new person's speech or actions, honey.)
"How about your head out of your ass? (Correct punctuation... a question, even a snide one, should have a question mark.)" I muttered sarcastically.
"Whatever, dude, just fuckin' leave." (Who said this? How did they say it, exasperated, annoyed, bitchy, tired? Give us something to feel, to sink our teeth into and draw us into the moment.) Shit, Mige's left without me and I need (Don't change verb tenses in the middle of a POV. You've already established that Linde is in the present moment, so don't suddenly shove him into a past tense, like he's looking back on the event) a ride back to the hotel. I take out my phone and dial Ville.

"Greetings, this is Ville." (And how did his voice sound to Linde in that moment? Like holy water, a benediction to his weary, drunken soul? Or like a razor, laying him open to bleed in silent longing? Emotion is everything.)Thank God.
"It's Linde, can you come pick me up from the pub? Mige left with out me." (How did he say this to Ville? did he plead, was he belligerent? Did he try to play on Ville's sympathy?)
"Sure thing, I'll be right over."
I was trying to figure out how I could be so trashed on american liquor. It wasn't as strong as Finnish liquor, but it would have to do. I looked up and saw ville waving over at me, but where was everyone else?

(From here on out, I leave capitilalization up to you. I've showed you how it's done, and there's so much of it needing done, my hands are cramping, lol. AH, the joys of getting old.)

"where is everyone?"
"partying, i didn't want to go, i figured making sure my best friend is all right was more important,"
i smiled, trying not to blush from his closeness, but i couldn't help it. (Once again, pick a verb tense, honey, either go with present or past, but don't switch midway through. I do - present. I did - past. I will do - future.)
"you ok?"
"yeah, i'm fine, just the alcohol you know," (Just a side note: No guy will ever admit that he is drunk. He'll claim he's just fine, right until he passes out in midsentence. This is true for anything with a dick, even gay men)he nodded and grabbed my hand, intertwining both of our fingers together. fuck, now i was getting hard. he took out the key to his room, and pulled me in.

"please, tell me you're slightly drunk,"
he (specify if this is Ville, for those of us who don't auto-connect) shook his head,
"no, i'm totally sober for once," he replied lighting a cigarette, handing it to me, (Does Linde smoke? In all my research I've never run across that)
"kiitos," he noddded and went over to the window getting rid of his scarf and jacket, **must not stare, goddamnit mikko, you're pretty much saying, i want to fuck you by staring at him** i pushed the thought aside. so what if he found out i liked him? big deal. he probably didn't feel the same way. (I can feel the apathy of Linde here, the fact that he's walled that part of him away for fear of rejection, but it is far too faint. You can bring it out with a few well-placed descriptions, a few more thoughts, the way Linde would watch without trying to be obvious, the things he would notice about Ville.)

These are my thoughts on this first section. You have the bare bones of a good, possibly great Linde/Ville pairing here, really you do, but that's all it is. It needs so much work that the best thing to do is completely shred it, go through line by line, and -really- concentrate on every tiny piece. What was he drinking? How did it taste, did it have a burn, did it make his head swim or just fuzz the edges of the world? From the way you work, I'm guessing you don't speak English as your first language. There's no real cure for that when writing for an English-speaking audience except to speak the lanmguage as much as possible with everyone you can, watch American and British movies in their native language, and buy a copy of both Webster's dictionary and the New American Thesaurus. :S Which I know sounds harsh, but I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, just help out.
(I would use italics for thoughts, personally. the lj code for them is <i> text here </i> It's one of those things that's up to you, I just find the asterisks very disrupting while reading.)

That's a sample (author gave permission for me to post it) of how I do a really harsh edit on a piece that really needed some work. Just so everyone knows, lol.

 

[kbate]

It would be an interesting exercise to post a story - here on the forum and see what each editor does with it in a limited time.

 

[RogueLurker]

It would be an interesting exercise to post a story - here on the forum and see what each editor does with it in a limited time.

I like that idea! Maybe in the next couple of weeks we can set something up.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

As a writer, I prefer getting a marked-up copy with comments... that way I can decide don't think I would like getting my work back already changed. But I did have it done that way once, and it worked out ok... although I did go back and add a few things anyway.

If anyone wants, I can volunteer to be the guinea pig and post a little 500 word essay that I wrote many years ago... never edited.

You guys can go to town on it...

 

[FallingToFly]

Let me know if you need something really rough to work on, lol. I'll give you four or five pages of Troubleshooting (a working title, not a western novel or a Windows XP manifesto).

 

[CopyCarver]

As a writer, I prefer getting a marked-up copy with comments... that way I can decide don't think I would like getting my work back already changed. But I did have it done that way once, and it worked out ok... although I did go back and add a few things anyway.

If anyone wants, I can volunteer to be the guinea pig and post a little 500 word essay that I wrote many years ago... never edited.

You guys can go to town on it...

Let me know if you need something really rough to work on, lol. I'll give you four or five pages of Troubleshooting (a working title, not a western novel or a Windows XP manifesto).

Sounds good to me; can't speak for anyone else, obviously.


BTW, Falling, are you certain that Windows XP isn't a western novel--it certainly has enough bullet holes.

 

[FallingToFly]

Sounds good to me; can't speak for anyone else, obviously.


BTW, Falling, are you certain that Windows XP isn't a western novel--it certainly has enough bullet holes.

*smirks* It could, quitepossibly, have been written by the same guy who did the dreaded Slocum series.

 

[kbate]

I also have a first draft, just off the fingertips, 1000 word story I could post. It has sat untouched for nearly 2 years on my computer, a forgotten project, never to be completed.

 

[J.Q. Hack]

Questions on Editing

When I edit a story I always try to make comments and suggestions in red within the text. That way it sticks out as the writer is reving the comments and they are right where I believe the change should be made. I also try to write a paragraph or two at the very end of the story with general or overall comments that might not fit in exactly in one place in the story but are meant to be broad or thematic type comments.

That seems to work best for me and the people I've edited haven't really had any complaints or misunderstandings about my comments. So until I really confuse somebody I think I'll stick with that style.

J.Q.

 

[RogueLurker]

If we go ahead with this editing exercise, I would think that it would be better to not use an editor's piece of fiction as the sample. Anonymous would be best, in my mind.

Thoughts ...?

PS Welcome aboard J.Q.

 

[J.Q. Hack]

Shop Talk

Thanks Rogue, I just hope my two cents add up to something worthwhile and somebody can take something useful out of it.

 

[Never]

Editors are so lazy. Why don’t you just beam the knowledge directly into the writer's brain? I know you could do it if you tried.

As a writer, I prefer to see the markup instead of the editor just changing it. I suppose it all depends on the level of editing. If I don't capitalize, it's fine to just change it. I know my grammar and punctuation isn't the best. Anything beyond that and I'd prefer if the editor didn't just make alterations.

Besides, one of the joys of having an editor is getting that blow-by-blow response to one's word.

 

[snooper]

In my editing days I always started with:

Please do not take these comments as anything other than my personal view. This is your story and you are entirely at liberty to ignore any or all of the following comments. Questions are not to elicit an answer, merely what went through my mind as I read the story the first time. I see no point in spending time looking at your story and then not being honest, so I have pulled no punches. If your entire story had been a mess, or distasteful, I wouldn’t have written this at all.
My publications (all as Charm Brights unless otherwise indicated):
I have four stories on Literotica (three as Snooper and one as Un-Registered), twelve stories on EroticStories, thirteen stories on OnlineStories.net, two stories on Asexstories, and fifteen novels (two are cooperative authorship) for sale on BDSMbooks.com with two more novels to come out in the next few months, and an agreement for two more after that. I also wrote a textbook on Computer Security under my real name, but it is now out of date and out of print.

I cannot emphasise enough that it is your story, so you are free to ignore anything and everything I say. Everything I have added or changed (other than spacing which is a matter of personal choice) is marked, like this sentence, as a Word “Change”. My editing comments are in dark yellow [in a different font] after the wording to which they apply; they are what a publisher’s editor would correct without reference to the author. My literary comments are in pink; these would be referred to the author for approval. Suggested changes are in green; these are my personal suggestions. I do not think that Literotica will accept the changed story unless the specifically Lit comments are dealt with to their satisfaction. General comments are after the text.

Please feel free to ask about any comments you may not fully understand.


Then I commented on the story and at the end I added relevant general comments such as :

8. I think you get excited when you write, and when you try to check your own work. The punctuation goes very lax in the emotional scenes.

Finally I would add a clean copy of what the story would look like if my suggestions were accepted.

 

[kbate]

Editors are so lazy. Why don’t you just beam the knowledge directly into the writer's brain? I know you could do it if you tried.

Besides, one of the joys of having an editor is getting that blow-by-blow response to one's word.

Did you pick up what I was just thinking? No? Damn writers simply have poor reception.

Oh, you did pick it up. :emoticon:

 

[CopyCarver]

Did you pick up what I was just thinking? No? Damn writers simply have poor reception.

Oh, you did pick it up. :emoticon:

It's the publishers' fault. Since every potential story is contained in a good dictionary, they should be able to deduce the words and patterns that are appropriate.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Besides, one of the joys of having an editor is getting that blow-by-blow response to one's word.

blow-by-blow? *perk*

I agree... I love the comments... it's my favorite part of the editing process... that, and when my editor really pushes me to my edges and makes me think about the whys of what I wrote, and what I'm *really* trying to say...

 

[CopyCarver]

blow-by-blow? *perk*

I agree... I love the comments... it's my favorite part of the editing process... that, and when my editor really pushes me to my edges and makes me think about the whys of what I wrote, and what I'm *really* trying to say...

Exactly. Helping beginners to understand the why and how, and helping more seasoned writers to explore alternatives they may not have considered is the essence of good editing, to my way of thinking. It's also the only way to avoid highjacking the story. Merely sending back a "better" story wouldn be a huge disservice if it were my story instead of the author's.

 

[Never]

kbate:
"Did you pick up what I was just thinking? No? Damn writers simply have poor reception."

I do not have poor reception. I'm simply trying the block the alien editors who are trying to control the minds of all writers for their propaganda machine.

"Oh, you did pick it up. :emoticon:"

It was far too bizarre for the alien editors to come up with.

Selena Kittyn:
" blow-by-blow? *perk*"

Hello, I'm a young, eager writer looking for a firm editatrix. I like long walks on the beach, fantasy novellas, and tightly bound to my word processor.

" I agree... I love the comments... it's my favorite part of the editing process... "

It's feedback on demand. You know those damn readers never give you more than a paragraph, if that!

 

[RogueLurker]

Selena Kittyn:
" blow-by-blow? *perk*"

Hello, I'm a young, eager writer looking for a firm editatrix. I like long walks on the beach, fantasy novellas, and tightly bound to my word processor.

Dear young eager writer,

Submit to me and you will soon discover that nobody can punctuate you the way I do.

Rogue Editatrixxx

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Dear young eager writer,

Submit to me and you will soon discover that nobody can punctuate you the way I do.

Rogue Editatrixxx

She means it. <grin>

Yes, Mistress.

 

[Never]

As no one has posted anything, might I suggest that someone send Rouge Lurker a story via PM? That way it can remain anonymous.

Get on with it people; I've been waiting four days already.