Sex scenes in published erotica

[Zenith77]

Strictly for research purposes (of course) I've been reading a few books on kindle unlimited to see what sort of stuff goes out under the 'erotica' category.

Gotta say... a lot of the sex scenes are really quite dull compared to what I've seen from my fellow authors on this forum.

They tend to be quite brief (600 words or so max, often considerably less), uninspired, lacking in emotion, description or evocation, and frankly quite clinical - 'and then she sucked my cock until my eyes rolled back in my head and it was the best blowjob I'd ever had'.

Am I reading the wrong stuff, or is this... it?

 

[KeithD]

That was what erotica was mostly like before the advent of self-publishing and e-books.

 

[Euphony]

Writing for the "marketplace" versus writing for, essentially, hobbyist are very different things.

Were I tuned to turn my creations towards profit motives, even my overblown drama whorish self would read similarly dull as dishwater.

I've not explore the Kindle Unlimited pay rates these days but even before it rewarded quantity/building a loyal fanbase content with your version of "comfort food porn" over quality.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Check out Lorelei James, especially her Blacktop Cowboy series - Her books are hot!

 

[JessGabriel]

You're not wrong. And even those that run to the hotter end get repetitive and formulaic. That's part of why I started writing it... I wasn't getting the uninhibited dirty deliciousness that I crave.

 

[ElectricBlue]

From what I've seen, to make more than a few dollars in the market-place, you've got to churn out content and keep on doing it. Must be like a hamster wheel. I tried a few years ago now, and earned enough for a few pizzas and coffees, but the effective return was nothing. For making money, I can do a couple of hour's paid work and earn something commensurate with the effort.

The thing that surprises me most, to be honest, are "books" with twenty or so pages, single short stories. Why would people pay a dollar for those? I don't get that. Collections of stories I can understand, but I'd have thought a single 5,000 word story was a bit cheeky. But most Kindle stuff appears to be free, so why is that any different to here?

 

[SimonDoom]

From what I've seen, to make more than a few dollars in the market-place, you've got to churn out content and keep on doing it. Must be like a hamster wheel. I tried a few years ago now, and earned enough for a few pizzas and coffees, but the effective return was nothing. For making money, I can do a couple of hour's paid work and earn something commensurate with the effort.

The thing that surprises me most, to be honest, are "books" with twenty or so pages, single short stories. Why would people pay a dollar for those? I don't get that. Collections of stories I can understand, but I'd have thought a single 5,000 word story was a bit cheeky. But most Kindle stuff appears to be free, so why is that any different to here?

This is what I've wondered, because from the numbers I've seen I'm not seeing much evidence that the return is worth the effort. Why go to the considerable effort to learn the industry, write and package and get illustrations for the books, and then market them, for a few hundred dollars? Is it just a vanity project? Is the work product any better than what one can get at Literotica? If not, why pay money for it?

From the relatively little published erotica I've purchased online, the production values are somewhat higher, because presumably there's been more editing and proofreading, and there's a shiny cover on the book, but the content is no better than what I can read for free at Literotica. So why bother?

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Check out Lorelei James, especially her Blacktop Cowboy series - Her books are hot!

If you're into BDSM, Tara Sue Me has published really good books.

 

[ronde]

Strictly for research purposes (of course) I've been reading a few books on kindle unlimited to see what sort of stuff goes out under the 'erotica' category.

Gotta say... a lot of the sex scenes are really quite dull compared to what I've seen from my fellow authors on this forum.

They tend to be quite brief (600 words or so max, often considerably less), uninspired, lacking in emotion, description or evocation, and frankly quite clinical - 'and then she sucked my cock until my eyes rolled back in my head and it was the best blowjob I'd ever had'.

Am I reading the wrong stuff, or is this... it?

I think your answer is in the media, that being basically self-publishing anything you want and can convince someone to pay for. Not to be critical of authors who self-publish because I'm sure there are some really good writers out there who do. The problem is mostly financial. An author worthy of actual publication by a publication company has to write works that appeal to a large audience or the revenue won't be sufficient to pay for the initial printing. Therefore, it's extremely difficult to break into even the paperback market. Publishers won't take the chance on an unknown. The result is that to be published, aspiring authors have to self-publish and even with editing for spelling, punctuation, and page layout, the story can end up being pretty poor. That's also why the cost is low or free.

The other thing is that while erotica is in the top category for customer base, most popular erotica is in romance novels like the Harlequin paperbacks, and the customer base is mostly women. While this is a generalization, women like their sex scenes to leave a lot of imagination to them because they enjoy identifying with the female character. They're also written mostly by female authors who understand that. Male authors tend toward exactly what you're reading, just descriptions of what happened without much emotion and feelings, but lots of detailed descriptions of body parts.

 

[Jeb56]

Lacey Alexander is an example of a female erotica author who combines satisfyingly detailed sex scenes with developed story lines in her novels.

 

[HeyAll]

Internet erotica can be more intense because there are no filters. Mainstream erotica has limits. Especially if it's a well known author with a face and name attached to the story.

For example, on Lit you can get nasty with male cum or female cum and all that stuff. Too shameful for anyone with their face attached to it.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Tiffany Reisz is another incredible author, who is known for her erotic fiction. Helena Hunting has written very funny sexy stories, as have Emma Chase and Lauren Blakely (Big Rock was as funny as it was hot)

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Internet erotica can be more intense because there are no filters. Mainstream erotica has limits. Especially if it's a well known author with a face and name attached to the story.

For example, on Lit you can get nasty with male cum or female cum and all that stuff. Too shameful for anyone with their face attached to it.

Quite a few authors no longer show their face, or use their real names - especially the ones that write erotica.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Internet erotica can be more intense because there are no filters. Mainstream erotica has limits. Especially if it's a well known author with a face and name attached to the story.

For example, on Lit you can get nasty with male cum or female cum and all that stuff. Too shameful for anyone with their face attached to it.

Their face attached to male or female cum? Hmmm...

I'll leave now.

 

[thomas1965]

Gotta say... a lot of the sex scenes are really quite dull compared to what I've seen from my fellow authors on this forum.
They tend to be quite brief (600 words or so max, often considerably less), uninspired, lacking in emotion, description or evocation, and frankly quite clinical - 'and then she sucked my cock until my eyes rolled back in my head and it was the best blowjob I'd ever had'.

I had the same experience. Now I only read stuff that is free.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Could it be that this is one more example of the difference between erotica and written porn and what the target audiences for each expect in the marketplace?

 

[oneagainst]

The thing I'm struggling with is an honest opinion by someone else on whether what I write would meet the bar for "published" literature, i.e. I get comments to that effect on my stories but are they just here for the dinner and not the entire show? Before sinking a bunch of time into pulling something like The Monogamists together into a book, I'd much rather have someone take me to one side and tell me to stick to the day job...?

 

[Zenith77]

Could it be that this is one more example of the difference between erotica and written porn and what the target audiences for each expect in the marketplace?

Absolutely. But it also depends on your definitions. I use:
Erotica - story with sex
Written Porn - sex that brushed up against a story at some point but didn't pay much attention.

The problem is that I write story with sex, whereas what I've been reading is story with a mention that sex happened, focused primarily on the size of the mammary glands involved. That's so far from my style it's not even comparable.

 

[Zenith77]

The thing I'm struggling with is an honest opinion by someone else on whether what I write would meet the bar for "published" literature, i.e. I get comments to that effect on my stories but are they just here for the dinner and not the entire show? Before sinking a bunch of time into pulling something like The Monogamists together into a book, I'd much rather have someone take me to one side and tell me to stick to the day job...?

A question I often ask myself too, which is partly why I want to drop something on to Amazon and see what happens.

But I can tell you now: it won't do well at all. It'll disappear into the noise of all the 'raunchy titles' that Amazon gets added in on a daily basis, and sit there largely unread. It will get read if-and-when I 'develop my brand' by publishing another 8 novels over the next 2 years. So yeah. That'll happen.

So I'd say don't ask the question of whether you're good enough, just do it. But I'd also say don't expect a financial return, and definitely don't drop money on a cover or an editor expecting to make a profit. Don't spend anything you're not prepared to throw away. Covers are very important, but I believe there's various royalty-free images that can be adopted.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

The thing I'm struggling with is an honest opinion by someone else on whether what I write would meet the bar for "published" literature, i.e. I get comments to that effect on my stories but are they just here for the dinner and not the entire show? Before sinking a bunch of time into pulling something like The Monogamists together into a book, I'd much rather have someone take me to one side and tell me to stick to the day job...?

A lot of indie authors also pay for services like Mailchimp. I think a lot of them hope it will help them stand out, if you're getting news about their books in an email. But so many authors do it, that I don't it works. Authors will also promote each other's work, and give away freebies to try and drum up interest in their newest book or series. So obviously, it can get fairly expensive.

 

[PandemicReader8]

Gotta say... a lot of the sex scenes are really quite dull compared to what I've seen from my fellow authors on this forum.

For what its worth...

Short Answer: Authors on Amazon are writing not just for fans, but also - and mostly - for compliance with TOS. IME, the Amazon rules - especially around erotica - are incredibly fluid. And not in a good way.

Long Answer: I came here to write erotica when I already have an established foot print on Amazon in numerous categories (genres). Why? The Amazon rules re: erotica have changed multiple times - usually without notification - in the last five or so years.

My business manager threw a fit when she saw I had a plan for a handful of erotica. Her concern was that if we missed some future change that made X a violatoon of TOS, then a single complaint about a book published under a penname could get my entire footprint pulled.

But, I have stories in my head and they need to come out. Lit provides an audience, fairly stable and common sense rules, and presents no direct threat to my income stream.

 

[ColinPiper]

The thing I'm struggling with is an honest opinion by someone else on whether what I write would meet the bar for "published" literature, i.e. I get comments to that effect on my stories but are they just here for the dinner and not the entire show? Before sinking a bunch of time into pulling something like The Monogamists together into a book, I'd much rather have someone take me to one side and tell me to stick to the day job...?

I've done IT contract work in the past. I'd need to consistently sell stories to well-paying publications to even come close to earning the rates I did in IT. This is not to show off - it's the reality, and I would imagine there are lots of authors who can relate to this situation.

 

[PandemicReader8]

Mailchimp. I think a lot of them hope it will help them stand out, if you're getting news about their books in an email. But so many authors do it, that I don't it works.

Two things you get preached at about: Mailchimp and newsletters. I didn't see any boost from either. I believe they were holdovers from the earliest days of Indie publication when the field wasn't so ripe.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Absolutely. But it also depends on your definitions. I use:
Erotica - story with sex
Written Porn - sex that brushed up against a story at some point but didn't pay much attention.

The problem is that I write story with sex, whereas what I've been reading is story with a mention that sex happened, focused primarily on the size of the mammary glands involved. That's so far from my style it's not even comparable.

I have had literary agents and publishers laughingly define porn as "anything you fast forward through to get to the best bits of the story". As a reader, I frequently do just that. As a writer, I try to avoid making my readers do that.

Eroticism at its core evokes arousal. Erotic literature should elicit, or try to elicit, a sexual response of some kind. The response is often muted and could be missed by some readers entirely.

Here, and in mainstream publishing, the debate continues: "Is erotica poorly rendered because it skips around the subject and stays partly symbolic, or is pornography poorly rendered because it is too crude?"

Choose your audience.

 

[Zenith77]

I have had literary agents and publishers laughingly define porn as "anything you fast forward through to get to the best bits of the story". As a reader, I frequently do just that. As a writer, I try to avoid making my readers do that.

Eroticism at its core evokes arousal. Erotic literature should elicit, or try to elicit, a sexual response of some kind. The response is often muted and could be missed by some readers entirely.

Here, and in mainstream publishing, the debate continues: "Is erotica poorly rendered because it skips around the subject and stays partly symbolic, or is pornography poorly rendered because it is too crude?"

Choose your audience.

Completely agree, and I've found the sex quickly boring in many of the stories I've read on Kindle, sticking with the book for the story, not the sex.

But Lit stories require sex - I presume the expectation is minimum one scene per chapter. That doesn't necessarily translate well when you combine a series of 9 chapters into a novel, ending up with ~10 sex scenes. Too much sex? Not enough story? Probably.