Sex in Wartime: Bad Endings in Porn Stories

[dr_mabeuse]

Porn differs from mainstream literature in many ways, but one of the most striking is in the ending. Porn commonly has a happy ending. There's something about an uhappy ending - a murder or a tragedy - that makes the sex that's come before seem especially tasteless or gratuitous. This avoidance of tragedy or serious themes gives porn a naive and pollyannish, unreal and glossy feel.

Few serious books seem to have happy endings. More and more books deal with such violence and degradation that porn looks positively wholesome compared to them, but porn also comes off looking false, artifical, and contrived. If porn's ever going to be taken seriously as literature, it's going to have to find a way of dealing with the negatives of violence, murder, and loss that mainstream fiction's already concerned with. Is this even possible?

Is it possible to write serious porn? Or is it by its very nature the stuff of fluff and must it always remain so?

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Is it possible to write serious porn? Or is it by its very nature the stuff of fluff and must it always remain so?

I wouldn't say that it needs to be fluff, but for my own personal tastes, that is what I prefer. I don't read porn for social commentary. I read porn to excite my libido and have some fun with private time. The more seriousness is written into a porn story, the less I care about what I am reading, the more I consider reading something else.

 

[keeblercrumb]

Porn differs from mainstream literature in many ways, but one of the most striking is in the ending. Porn commonly has a happy ending. There's something about an uhappy ending - a murder or a tragedy - that makes the sex that's come before seem especially tasteless or gratuitous. This avoidance of tragedy or serious themes gives porn a naive and pollyannish, unreal and glossy feel.

Few serious books seem to have happy endings. More and more books deal with such violence and degradation that porn looks positively wholesome compared to them, but porn also comes off looking false, artifical, and contrived. If porn's ever going to be taken seriously as literature, it's going to have to find a way of dealing with the negatives of violence, murder, and loss that mainstream fiction's already concerned with. Is this even possible?

Is it possible to write serious porn? Or is it by its very nature the stuff of fluff and must it always remain so?

I have never given thought to it...... but...... yeah... I think porn is doomed to "happy endings" (I love "happy endings")...

I suspect it is due to it's essentially "escapist" nature....

On the other hand... maybe it is just in the definition of it..... Absent any claim to a heavy, depressing reality, it is simply porn. But the same sex written in with the heavy shit, becomes "dark, erotic fiction". In fact, perhaps that is a working definition between erotic and porn fiction...

Hmmmm.

-KC

 

[rgraham666]

The fact that porn usually has happy endings is one of the reasons I like it so much. And the dead seriousness of 'literature' is why I avoid it.

I've seen enough of pain and suffering to last me a lifetime and I don't use them for entertainment anymore.

That said, I question why 'serious literature' is expected to be stuffed with angst. Shakespeare's comedies are still hilarious, have happy endings, and are still considered 'serious literature'.

I'll think about this and post more later.

 

[cantdog]

It's a large assumption that porn wants to have itself taken seriously as literature, Zoot. I have to agree with Rob and keebler. I don't want the murderer to get away with it in detective fiction, either.

 

[cantdog]

Let's get specific.

If you have a large BDSM setup somewhere, training dozens of slaves in a weird palace, should the Decency League bust the place?

If someone fucks his mom, should the resultant guilt cause her to suicide and leave a note that exposes all, causing the boy's life to go to shit?

 

[TxRad]

How about the mixing of the two. I have a novel going that I'm writing two ways. One has the regular fade to black sex scenes and the other has the full graphics. It'll be interesting to see if either sells or maybe even both.

 

[3113]

So we're distinguishing between anything that has sex in it, even raunchy sex, but focuses on other topics to the point of being called "literature" (like, say, a book like Gravity's Rainbow) and porn which focuses on the sex and sexual gratification itself and, hence will be called porn and not be seen as literature?

I think that pretty much answers the question. In agreement with cantdog, the intent of porn, of the writer and the person reading it, is to get sexual gratification. Putting it another way, Porn caters to it's audience rather than to the needs of the story. In literature, the needs of the story reign supreme--so mom hangs herself and the son puts out his eyes after learning that they've slept with each other. Not so in the kind of porn we're discussing, where the needs of the reader are all that matter. And that need is simply to make sure the reader has good jerk-off material. A tragic ending is rarely good for that. It kinda kills the mood and, I presume, the erection.

But as we well know, there are readers and writers here on lit that want their stories to do more than just give them a moment of sexual gratification. Hence, we do have plenty of tragic stories and downbeat endings that can still give a reader that moment of erotic satisfaction.

The fact that porn usually has happy endings is one of the reasons I like it so much. And the dead seriousness of 'literature' is why I avoid it.

True enough. I think this is a flaw in modern writing that is most often labeled "literature." The belief that if it ends happily it can't be taken seriously. This was not the case in the past where many "literary" stories had upbeat endings for all the sorrow along the way.

 

[cantdog]

love it 3113

Oedipus with all the sex, real graphic! Dood!

Nah, I don't think it'd find an audience.

All that to one side, though, within its sphere, I think sexy fiction can have things to tell us about people and how they tick over. Sex is pretty basic to the way life is lived. You don't have to tackle every issue with porn, but you can certainly point out some things.

 

[3113]

Oedipus with all the sex, real graphic! Dood!

I don't think those reading Oedipus Rex in the incest category would be at all happy with the ending. We'd just get a ton of critical comments suggesting that we toss out the hanging and blinding scenes and, instead, have Antigone get it on with her brothers

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I tend to write happy endings and lately I've been getting down on myself for it, for being maybe too fluffy and doggedly optimistic, and I wonder whether I can ever take myself seriously as long as I write this way. That's why I started this thread.

It's silly to think that you have to be downbeat and cynical to be taken seriously, and yet when you look at the books and films that make a splash, it seems like you're usually looking at violence and grimness. (Or maybe that's just me? Maybe I'm easily impressed by that stuff.) One of my stories ends with an unexpected murder, and it makes the sex that happens earlier on seem suddenly dirty and tawdry. It's kind of a sleazy trick to play on the reader and I've often thought of changing it, but I leave it the way it is.

Having your characters make love beneath the specter of death certainly changes everything. It really makes sex seem much more obscene and exciting, but not necessarily sexier.

 

[TxRad]

If you're trapped somewhere with the one you love and death is imminent, say in an hour or so, what would most humans do? You could sit and cuss your fate or fuck your brains out. You're dieing anyway so why would the sex be dirty or tawdry. It's the way of life. or at least that's the way I like to think it is.


eta: How is a murder any different. Unexpected yes, but no different. The sex was for one reason and the murder another. That is unless the husband shot the lover or something along those lines. Even then it's true to life.

 

[3113]

It's silly to think that you have to be downbeat and cynical to be taken seriously, and yet when you look at the books and films that make a splash, it seems like you're usually looking at violence and grimness.

But, really, how many of those books and films get re-read? Re-watched? Take a look at the stories that have really lingered, the authors that are still re-read--not in literature classes, but in general. Jane Austen's books have never vanished and they're suddenly more popular than ever...yet not one ends tragically. The most popular Dickens story is Christmas Carol--very happy ending! Shakespeare's comedies are having a revival now (though, we'll admit, that no one can seem to leave Hamlet alone), and even the more popular modern literature, still being made into movies or stage plays often has "upbeat" endings, like The Color Purple. The most classic of classic movies, Casa Blanca, would not be considered a tragedy, would it? Bittersweet, yes, but downbeat? Hardly.

I mean, okay, let's be real. Sad things often make for more complex stories and therefore more "literary" stories. And critics will often make a fuss over such things because it gives them something to sink their teeth into. Characters to discuss, setting with rich symbolism, a plot with twists and turns. In short, substance. We can both agree that literature must have substance, and porn, real porn made for the purpose of masturbation, rarely has "substance." Hence, you might not feel like a "real" writer if all your stories, being "porn" are also lacking substance.

But the ending really has nothing to do with substance. And any fuss you see over stories with downbeat endings doesn't mean a damn thing. What matters is if the substance in the story rings true over time. If people are still reading and watching Pride and Prejudice then it hardly matters if it ends upbeat or down. What gives it substance still rings true to people and matters to them, and how it ends is simply how it has to end. Nothing more.

 

[xssve]

It is possible to be optimistic in the face of tragedy: overcoming adversity, happy memories, etc., i.e., accentuating the positive rather than dwelling on the negative.

 

[cantdog]

Particularly if you can get laid. Improves the mood.

 

[sr71plt]

Porn differs from mainstream literature in many ways, but one of the most striking is in the ending. Porn commonly has a happy ending. There's something about an uhappy ending - a murder or a tragedy - that makes the sex that's come before seem especially tasteless or gratuitous. This avoidance of tragedy or serious themes gives porn a naive and pollyannish, unreal and glossy feel.

Few serious books seem to have happy endings. More and more books deal with such violence and degradation that porn looks positively wholesome compared to them, but porn also comes off looking false, artifical, and contrived. If porn's ever going to be taken seriously as literature, it's going to have to find a way of dealing with the negatives of violence, murder, and loss that mainstream fiction's already concerned with. Is this even possible?

Is it possible to write serious porn? Or is it by its very nature the stuff of fluff and must it always remain so?

I've recently posted such a "not happy" ending serialize novella on Lit. ("Sacrificed by Curiosity") that illustrated this. It ran blazing hot in the voting through the penultimate chapter (which was taken as the ending) and then when the last chapter pointed to a "not happy" ending (as the "sacrificed" in the title should have signaled), the series as a whole, and the last chapter, in particular, were zapped mercilessly.

But as you say, I wasn't going for just a stroke story, I was going for development a particular point, capsulized by the title--which just didn't end particularly happy. I have several here that point to this lifestyle not being all "good stuff" and to be an entrapment by bleakness and dissatisfaction and, ultimately, sadness. They tend to do well critically but not in the votes/views.

So, I agree that bad endings are a hard sell for stories here--but, tough shit, I write 'em each the way I conceptualize a story/point out of them. I offer up more than enough where the point is stroking.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Is it possible to write serious porn?

I wrote it. You didn't like it.



Like Sr mentioned, I've had series with an unhappy ending (Truth or Dare, for example) get zapped at the end in terms of voting for that reason.

But I won't NOT write an unhappy ending, just because someone doesn't like it. Like Stephen King once said, I'll drop an elevator on an old lady if I have to.

Whatever the story requires.

 

[rachlou]

I wrote it. You didn't like it.



Like Sr mentioned, I've had series with an unhappy ending (Truth or Dare, for example) get zapped at the end in terms of voting for that reason.

But I won't NOT write an unhappy ending, just because someone doesn't like it. Like Stephen King once said, I'll drop an elevator on an old lady if I have to.

Whatever the story requires.

Me too. My Grace story was split into two parts due to length. Part 1 scored very high in the ratings within its category (mature), but whilst part 2 had great feedback, it scored far lower in voting. This was because I wrote what I felt was a realistic ending, as opposed to a happy ever after ending. It wasn't sad especially, but I didn't have my two lovers skipping off into the sunset on a mission to fuck each other senseless for all eternity.

I do think readers on here mostly prefer a happy ending - even if it isn't true to life.

 

[CharleyH]

Porn differs from mainstream literature in many ways, but one of the most striking is in the ending. Porn commonly has a happy ending. There's something about an uhappy ending - a murder or a tragedy - that makes the sex that's come before seem especially tasteless or gratuitous. This avoidance of tragedy or serious themes gives porn a naive and pollyannish, unreal and glossy feel.

Few serious books seem to have happy endings. More and more books deal with such violence and degradation that porn looks positively wholesome compared to them, but porn also comes off looking false, artifical, and contrived. If porn's ever going to be taken seriously as literature, it's going to have to find a way of dealing with the negatives of violence, murder, and loss that mainstream fiction's already concerned with. Is this even possible?

Is it possible to write serious porn? Or is it by its very nature the stuff of fluff and must it always remain so?

Is sex a serious aspect of life that has its good and bad? I say yes. I think it intriguing how a HOT story that turned one on can also make one feel guilty about being turned on. I think that is an amazing write. Sex is not always filled by orgasms. Sometimes sex is filled by a ruined or unrealized orgasm. Most people want the proverbial happy ending (cum shot) but I am certain that it does not turn me on. I can't speak for anyone but me, Doc.

 

[Stella_Omega]

'The Story Of O' was deemed literature because the character suicides at the end.

 

[CharleyH]

'The Story Of O' was deemed literature because the character suicides at the end.

Not my personal fave, but it is a story that sends some into a frenzy of BDSM dogma.

 

[Guest]

edited

 

[Guest]

edited

 

[Liar]

It's silly to think that you have to be downbeat and cynical to be taken seriously, and yet when you look at the books and films that make a splash, it seems like you're usually looking at violence and grimness.

Texas Chainsaw Massacre?

But yeah, I see what you mean. There's a pretty cemented view in certain domains that more suffering=higher level or art. And if there's no suffering, it's not really art. But it's not really, I'd say, more representative of the "high art elitism" cliché than it is of renowed art in general. Moliere? Shakespeare? Oscar Wilde? Dario Fo?

 

[CharleyH]

I almost burnt that book quite a few times... and ever since joining lit, I don't even know where my copy is...

Maharat

I'm not sure what to offer other than keep plugging, Maharat. What irks you about happy endings?