Senseless brutality

[SEVERUSMAX]

Generations of soldiers, and no major crime wave. I don't see the link.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Maybe it's the glorification of slaughtering 'the enemy' that has such an effect on the young.

This murder was committed last year. And the youths who committed it were all well into their teens by that time.

The war in Iraq could hardly be said to have affected them in any meaningful way, unless they lost a loved one or had someone fighting it who was a pivotal influence in thier lives. I don't see any causality that can be made for the supposition.

 

[entitled]

This murder was committed last year. And the youths who committed it were all well into their teens by that time.

The war in Iraq could hardly be said to have affected them in any meaningful way, unless they lost a loved one or had someone fighting it who was a pivotal influence in thier lives. I don't see any causality that can be made for the supposition.

No, but it was just a suggestion. i don't know.

 

[zeb1094]

Of course not. They're waiting for all the fanaticals to be killed off first, so they can speak out without getting slaughtered.

Either that or they ARE speaking out and the media has chosen not to focus on the fact.

Take your pick.

But there is a third choice. They don't speak out at all for either reason you gave. They just don't because they believe, although they don't stand beside, the radicals elements.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It was these lines I would poke with a stick. I agree with everything else. And I don't disagree with the peaceful parts. Well just a little.



It's just that these peaceful Islamics don't speak up, aren't demonstrating against, aren't shouting for their bretheren to stop!

On this, I would have to say, how do you know Zebby? Do you follow Islamic religious festivals? Do you read the text of Islamic clerics? Do you subscribe to regional papers that might cover a peaceful demonstration against violence in say Lebanon or Yemen or the UAE?

We get the news that is deemed newswrothy by the major outlets. If it isn't deemed newsworthy by them, then we generally, don't see it. A peaceful demonstration by Muslims against the violence of their more radical correligionists might make news on a slow news day, but then again, it mightnot.

I agree wholly that the extremist edge has become the public face of Islam. I agree moderates need to do more to change that. But I would hesitate to say they aren't trying. I don't read the speeches of mulim clerics, I don't subscribe to regional of local periodicals, I haven't a clue what happened today in most of the mulim world and unless it is something violent and sensation, I am unlikely to become aware of it. With such an incomplete picture, I can't really say I have the knowledge base to make pronouncements on Islam as a whole. i only see the violent lunatic fringe from day to day.

 

[entitled]

But there is a third choice. They don't speak out at all for either reason you gave. They just don't because they believe, although they don't stand beside, the radicals elements.

*laughs* You're so full of shit sometimes. No wonder i like ya.

Then again, i have an insight on this that most don't. i have a couple of pen pals - Islamic people - in that area of the world. Granted i haven't heard from then a whole lot recently, but that does give me the ability to speak with some little bit of authority on how things are on 'their' side. 'Their' side being that of the peaceful Muslims.

 

[oggbashan]

In Iraq, speaking out against the fanatics gets you killed.

In the UK, Muslims do speak out but the fanatics are more newsworthy.

In Egypt, yesterday's bombing led to demonstrations in the streets against the bombers. Was that reported in the US?

Og

 

[zeb1094]

On this, I would have to say, how do you know Zebby? Do you follow Islamic religious festivals? Do you read the text of Islamic clerics? Do you subscribe to regional papers that might cover a peaceful demonstration against violence in say Lebanon or Yemen or the UAE?

We get the news that is deemed newswrothy by the major outlets. If it isn't deemed newsworthy by them, then we generally, don't see it. A peaceful demonstration by Muslims against the violence of their more radical correligionists might make news on a slow news day, but then again, it mightnot.

I agree wholly that the extremist edge has become the public face of Islam. I agree moderates need to do more to change that. But I would hesitate to say they aren't trying. I don't read the speeches of mulim clerics, I don't subscribe to regional of local periodicals, I haven't a clue what happened today in most of the mulim world and unless it is something violent and sensation, I am unlikely to become aware of it. With such an incomplete picture, I can't really say I have the knowledge base to make pronouncements on Islam as a whole. i only see the violent lunatic fringe from day to day.

There are othere sources than the current news outlets, which suck big time at getting the real news. The current news outlets only want to let the American public how bad our society has sunk into the abyss. The only things reported are those that are designed to depress and suck the life out of the American public. Murders, stores robbed, cars stolen, drug busts, child abuse, child molestations. When's the last time there was any good new reported in a major outlet.

 

[zeb1094]

In Iraq, speaking out against the fanatics gets you killed.

In the UK, Muslims do speak out but the fanatics are more newsworthy.

In Egypt, yesterday's bombing led to demonstrations in the streets against the bombers. Was that reported in the US?

Og

Nope, never heard a word, although I know about the protests. Never hear about protests in the US by the Muslims either. So as far as anyone here is concerned they don't take place. Hence my questions. Not statements of fact as has been assumed by some. Just questions.

Why is it we don't hear about those demonstration?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

There are othere sources than the current news outlets, which suck big time at getting the real news. The current news outlets only want to let the American public how bad our society has sunk into the abyss. The only things reported are those that are designed to depress and suck the life out of the American public. Murders, stores robbed, cars stolen, drug busts, child abuse, child molestations. When's the last time there was any good new reported in a major outlet.

Depends wholly on how you define good news. To Amicus, good news has been reported frequently, from alito's asscention to the bench, to the removal of the ban on drilling in ANWR. If you're a BoSox fan, you got an overdose of good news when they won the series. Steelers fans got the same inundation when they won the superbowl. Good news is so subjective, it would be hard to say it isn't reported or even that it's under reported.

 

[R. Richard]

During this discussion the UCMJ has been referenced.

Under the UCMJ a combatant is required to wear the visible insignia of a combat group. If an individual is fighting in a comabt zone but does not display the visible insignia of a combat group, then that individucal is considered, and has been considered for centuries, to be a bandit. If an individual is armed in a comabt zone but does not display the visible insignia of a combat group, then that individucal is considered, and has been considered for centuries, to be a bandit. The standard penalty for a bandit in ac combat zone is execution without trial. The penalty has been standard for centuries.

The terrorists who are being shot by USA armed forces are being shot in compliance with international law. The terrorists who are NOT being shot by USA armed forces are being treated with vigilante justice. This is not just an opinion, I used to be in the business.

As to Islam. If a substantial group of both Sunni and Shia Imams issued a fatwa that stated that anyone who conducted terrorist operations, including fighting without visible identifying insignia and/or homicide bombings would go to hell as a result, the terrorism would stop almost immediately. If you doubt this last, you will note that even the terrorists routinely ad "God willing!" to their pronouncements. Under Islam, if a follower breaks religious law, he goes to hell. Few will willingly go to hell.

 

[entitled]

Nope, never heard a word, although I know about the protests. Never hear about protests in the US by the Muslims either. So as far as anyone here is concerned they don't take place. Hence my questions. Not statements of fact as has been assumed by some. Just questions.

Why is it we don't hear about those demonstration?

Part of why we don't hear about the demonstrations in the US is the fact that Muslims here are afraid to speak out. The US is anti-Islam at the moment, in case you hadn't noticed.

The media also doesn't want the 'right and Christian' populace to know that there ARE Muslims who are as much against the fighting as anybody else.

 

[zeb1094]

Well this thread has caused me to go out and get ride of some dreges of society with some senseless violence myself.

It was a horrible sight, the bodily fluids soaking the ground as I peppered them with round after horrible round. Bruised and pumeled they finally gave up as the coup de grae was administered.

I hate dandilions! Little bastards invade my yard every year!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

During this discussion the UCMJ has been referenced.

Under the UCMJ a combatant is required to wear the visible insignia of a combat group. If an individual is fighting in a comabt zone but does not display the visible insignia of a combat group, then that individucal is considered, and has been considered for centuries, to be a bandit. If an individual is armed in a comabt zone but does not display the visible insignia of a combat group, then that individucal is considered, and has been considered for centuries, to be a bandit. The standard penalty for a bandit in ac combat zone is execution without trial. The penalty has been standard for centuries.

The terrorists who are being shot by USA armed forces are being shot in compliance with international law. The terrorists who are NOT being shot by USA armed forces are being treated with vigilante justice. This is not just an opinion, I used to be in the business.

As to Islam. If a substantial group of both Sunni and Shia Imams issued a fatwa that stated that anyone who conducted terrorist operations, including fighting without visible identifying insignia and/or homicide bombings would go to hell as a result, the terrorism would stop almost immediately. If you doubt this last, you will note that even the terrorists routinely ad "God willing!" to their pronouncements. Under Islam, if a follower breaks religious law, he goes to hell. Few will willingly go to hell.

That's an excellent point RR on the rules of engagement and accusations they are being violated. Soldiers out of uniform have been summarily executed for centruies and no one ever decried the actions as war crimes.

 

[R. Richard]

Well this thread has caused me to go out and get ride of some dreges of society with some senseless violence myself.

It was a horrible sight, the bodily fluids soaking the ground as I peppered them with round after horrible round. Bruised and pumeled they finally gave up as the coup de grae was administered.

I hate dandilions! Little bastards invade my yard every year!

Zeb, Zeb! Have you tried talking to them???

 

[cantdog]

Generations of soldiers, and no major crime wave. I don't see the link.

The stats are undeniable. During wartime, and during prohibitions. I don't care whether you can rationalize it or not. It still happens. People support violent forms of entertainment during wars, too.

 

[pop_54]

And to think, some states, mine in particular, have outlawed corporal(sp?) punishment. If you spank you go to jail. What a load of bullshit.

I got spanked, I have never thought about going out to beat someone for no reason but my own pleasure. If more children had been spanked when younger, I doubt we would have had this problem.

We had a recent case over here where a head teacher, female, was suspended from her job and threatened with legal action for 'raising her voice' to chastise an unruly disruptive 11 yr old boy who was seen bullying and slapping younger girls about in the playground... It appears according to the PC brigade that it was demeaning and an afront on his human rights to be embarrassed that way in front of his class mates and so constituted 'assault'.... What the fuck happened to the human rights of the younger girls in this case!!!

In Britain in particular the lunatics have taken over the asylum at last... Or should I say the foreigners have, most of these crackpot rules come from Brussels and the E fucking U.

 

[pop_54]

Apologies for not continuing the Islam/Christian theme or blaming the war in Iraq for this lack of moral standards thing.

But it really has fuck all to do with what happened to this homeless guy and the actions of these arseholes who killed him.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

The stats are undeniable. During wartime, and during prohibitions. I don't care whether you can rationalize it or not. It still happens. People support violent forms of entertainment during wars, too.

Perhaps, it would help your cause if you presented some of these stats?

 

[zeb1094]

Zeb, Zeb! Have you tried talking to them???

Sure did, asked them really nice to move on over the the yard next door. No dice. Then I stopped watering them. No deal. So yesterday I got the poison shooter out. They have fled the yard. Well they're gone anyway.

 

[SeaCat]

And this, in it's own way is I think even worse than the case that started this thread.

Dad kills

Cat

 

[entitled]

If she had a restraining order against him, what was he doing in the car she was driving?

 

[SeaCat]

If she had a restraining order against him, what was he doing in the car she was driving?

Damned good question.

Cat

 

[Boxlicker101]

And this, in it's own way is I think even worse than the case that started this thread.

Dad kills

Cat

In at least one way, it is worse. It is equally senseless and it is a man murdering his own son for no reason. I will say, not in defense of the killer but as a comment, it was an impulsive thing, not an afternoon's recreation like the subject of the thread.

I would assume the authorities will be asking both parties about his presence in violation of the restraining order. They don't do the woman much good if she invites the man to go for a drive, if that is what happened.