Selfishly pleasing another

[GobletHolly182]

Inspired by alliecat's thread on role confusion, but not directly related to her question, so I figured I'd start a new thread...

I'm struggling with the idea of wanting to please whomever you're playing with - applies both to subs and to service tops (ie those who dominate a partner with the goal of pleasing the one being dominated). The puzzle for me is that ULTIMATELY, you want to please the other person because that is what feels right and good for YOU. Pleasing them might be what they want, but it's also what YOU crave, so isn't this as selfish, as dominant, as completely disregarding the other person's pleasure?

Does that make sense at all? Been thinking myself in circles around this one, hoping that some outside opinions can untangle my brain cells

 

[Numerical_Value]

If your intention is to solely please yourself and that just happens to involve getting them off, then yes I'd say it is selfish.

On the other hand if your goal is to please them and it happens to get you off, I would say that it isn't, and that they're a lucky person.

 

[KoPilot]

Everyone's selfish. There's no getting around that, unless you're a robot. And if being "selfish" turns you off, then you've got a crapton of unlearning to do.

 

[GobletHolly182]

That is a good distinction, Numerical. Makes sense to me. Trouble now, is telling the difference! I could see both being true for me, depending on how I turn my head, fucking optical illusion.

KoPilot, I wouldn't say that being selfish 'turns me off' ... not exactly ... actually it turns me on ... but it does also raise post-orgasm unerotic red flags about being a bad person. And while I DO believe that everyone is selfish, as you say, I also think that those who claim "selfishness is good" need to do the unlearning.

Thanks, both, for your thoughts on this.

 

[KoPilot]

That is a good distinction, Numerical. Makes sense to me. Trouble now, is telling the difference! I could see both being true for me, depending on how I turn my head, fucking optical illusion.

KoPilot, I wouldn't say that being selfish 'turns me off' ... not exactly ... actually it turns me on ... but it does also raise post-orgasm unerotic red flags about being a bad person. And while I DO believe that everyone is selfish, as you say, I also think that those who claim "selfishness is good" need to do the unlearning.

Thanks, both, for your thoughts on this.

It's not inherently good, but it's not inherently bad either. It just is. I couldn't even tell you what unselfishness looks like because I've never seen it. My mom giving me money when I was a broke college student? She was doing that because she wanted to be a "good mom", and being a "good mom" made her feel good. She was doing it to avoid feeling bad, and avoidance of guilt is a very selfish thing.

Okay, so you exhibit tendencies that you enjoy in the moment, but after the fact they make you feel guilty. Why is that, and where did it come from?

I mean, yeah sure I sometimes still get little pangs of guilt when I don't act like a porn star in bed (I have a lot of unlearning to do still), but that comes from a selfish desire to appease, cater to, and appeal to my husband's so-called preferences. If he doesn't actually want me to act like a porn star in bed and I still feel guilty, that's because I still have a selfish desire to appeal to the sensibilities of mainstream society, which I don't consciously give a rat's ass about. On the converse, completely ignoring society's attempt to program me a certain way (that results in a lot of crippling contradictions in practice), then I am being selfish by doing what I want to do, on my own terms, to make me and my husband happy.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a well known fact that loving your job makes your job results better. Unsatisfied workers are a moral problem.

If you want me to work you over for two hours untill your brains leak out of your ears, you're going to have to accept that it makes me very very satisfied and happy to do that, and that's why I am doing it for you.

 

[Netzach]

This is the kind of belaboring that stops making things fun eventually. I feel like getting bogged down in the subliminal motivations behind the gesture of putting your ass in the air and begging for a spanking just defies the point of things - if if FEELS enough like a Dominant stance, I enjoy it. I'm self-interested enough not to care much about every little loophole that COULD be exploited by the other person, that way lies madness.

 

[GobletHolly182]

This is the kind of belaboring that stops making things fun eventually.

As soon as my head starts to hurt from thinking, I take my craziness to the Lit forums Overthinking is generally not torture to me, just idle musings ... or maybe I am mad. In any case, subliminal motivations are hella interesting!

@ KoPilot, yeah, I clearly have hangups about how acceptable/unacceptable selfishness is - could blame it on Catholicism? I've gone down that same road of 'everything is selfish' ... never thought about it in a BDSM context, though, got me thinking about the difference between D's and s's, and how wanting to be in control and wanting to give up control aren't necessarily that different (that sounded crazy to type.) But yeah, in the end, people are what they are, I really don't have an agenda here, just pondering it all.

@ Stella, yes, it's definitely good to like what you do ... suppose it can be as simple as that!

Thanks, all.

 

[KoPilot]

It is what ever you and your partner decide it is. That's the beauty of things.

You could say that me spending the past 2 years coaching S on how to be a better D requires being in a leadership position and blah blah blah... but I don't see it that way and never have. I'm doing us both a service by helping make the relationship just that much better.

It's like some people see giving oral to be a subservient thing, and others see it as an exertion of power.

If you have to apply some logic to it, then make up the logic. Trying to appeal to some outside, "objective" rubric is impossible, and like Netz said... that way lies madness.

 

[hoojo]

My Dom friends into "strict" BDSM appear to believe that the sub should feel pleasure strictly from being used and dominated. It's not "selfish" on anyone's part. It's just the way domination works. The subs I've talked to agree.

I don't qualify as a true "Dom" because although I like to play the "Dom" role with bondage and light sadism, I have always enjoyed giving my "sub" sexual pleasure. I suppose that might be labeled "selfish" of me, but I have had "real" subs accuse me of being "boring."

I'm not into "formal" BDSM, so I don't care about the labels very much. It's about two (or more) people enjoying what they are doing. I do my best to be up front about what I am and what I'm not, and I do my best to understand what my partner(s) are looking, and NOT looking for. The rest takes care of itself.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not into "formal" BDSM, so I don't care about the labels very much. It's about two (or more) people enjoying what they are doing. I do my best to be up front about what I am and what I'm not, and I do my best to understand what my partner(s) are looking, and NOT looking for. The rest takes care of itself.

Exactly

 

[SweetApple8]

The puzzle for me is that ULTIMATELY, you want to please the other person because that is what feels right and good for YOU. Pleasing them might be what they want, but it's also what YOU crave, so isn't this as selfish, as dominant, as completely disregarding the other person's pleasure?

Does that make sense at all? Been thinking myself in circles around this one....

Circles are unnecessary. You and the other person are a good fit in that respect.