Seldom-used words - M to A

[AllardChardon]

Og, I truly enjoyed your story, sad at places, with a somewhat happy ending. I will have to look into those engravings, many thanks to you.

limitrope - adj (1763) situated on a border or frontier : ADJACENT <the area ~ to the river>

 

[oggbashan]

Og, I truly enjoyed your story, sad at places, with a somewhat happy ending. I will have to look into those engravings, many thanks to you.

limitrope - adj (1763) situated on a border or frontier : ADJACENT <the area ~ to the river>

littoral adjacent to a watercourse has a specific meaning for landowners in England particularly with recent floods.

Any landowner who owns land on one side or both sides of a watercourse is responsible for maintaining the banks and not doing anything, without the drainage board's permission, that might obstruct the flow of water.

BUT - if landowners provide small dams, flood relieving measures, and deliberately slow the flow after heavy rain - they help to prevent flooding further downstream. The nonsense is that they have to get written permission to do that, but not if they clear obstructions and make the water flow faster.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

littoral adjacent to a watercourse has a specific meaning for landowners in England particularly with recent floods.

Any landowner who owns land on one side or both sides of a watercourse is responsible for maintaining the banks and not doing anything, without the drainage board's permission, that might obstruct the flow of water.

BUT - if landowners provide small dams, flood relieving measures, and deliberately slow the flow after heavy rain - they help to prevent flooding further downstream. The nonsense is that they have to get written permission to do that, but not if they clear obstructions and make the water flow faster.

Water law is complicated. In much of the American Southwest, for example, a landowner may not legally alter established drainage patterns on his land. Thus, a homeowner in, say, Denver, CO, may not store the runoff from his roof for his own use because doing so may adversely affect water rights downstream from his land.

 

[oggbashan]

Water law is complicated. In much of the American Southwest, for example, a landowner may not legally alter established drainage patterns on his land. Thus, a homeowner in, say, Denver, CO, may not store the runoff from his roof for his own use because doing so may adversely affect water rights downstream from his land.

Yet in England we are encouraged to install water butts to collect rainwater.

But if an agricultural landowner wants to extract groundwater from under his land, or to extract water from a stream running across his land, or horror! build a dam - he has to obtain a licence and pay the water board for the water. If the dam is larger than a given size not only does he have to pay for a licence, he has to comply with strict regulations but also have insurance in case the dam breaks.

A householder can use an existing well, but needs a licence to dig a new one.

 

[AllardChardon]

Og and Carlus, I suffer from some of the same problems. I have land that is on the Upper Sacramento River, but I am not allowed to take any of it for any reason. On top of that, if we buy and install water catching devices, we will have to pay Shasta County for the water from the sky, which is ridiculous. I'm certain that gold in the future will pale in value compared to clean fresh water.

You don't hear this one much;

liminal - adj (1884) 1. of or relating to a sensory threshold 2. barely susceptible 3. of, relating to, or being an intermediate state, phase, or condition: IN-BETWEEN, TRANSITIONAL <in the ~ state between life and death - Deborah Jowitt>

 

[Handley_Page]

Og and Carlus, I suffer from some of the same problems. I have land that is on the Upper Sacramento River, but I am not allowed to take any of it for any reason. On top of that, if we buy and install water catching devices, we will have to pay Shasta County for the water from the sky, which is ridiculous. I'm certain that gold in the future will pale in value compared to clean fresh water.

You don't hear this one much;

liminal - adj (1884) 1. of or relating to a sensory threshold 2. barely susceptible 3. of, relating to, or being an intermediate state, phase, or condition: IN-BETWEEN, TRANSITIONAL <in the ~ state between life and death - Deborah Jowitt>

If you, or anyone else for that matter, really need some water, try getting some from Cumbria (North West England) or North or West Yorkshire. They are suffering real floods. The Army has turned out to help.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-35190696

 

[AllardChardon]

Happy New Year, posters.

Handley, I have seen the footage on BBC Evening News for several days now and I really feel badly for the people there, and here in the Mississippi River Basin as well. We might get some flooding here, too, with a 110% snowpack on the mountains and a warm storm approaching on Tuesday. At any rate, floodwaters are usually not safe for consumption, and cannot be transported to areas of severe drought, so we will all have to suffer the effects of global warming, whether we like it or not. What will 2016 bring?

For Naoko;

lime-twig - noun (15c) 1. a twig covered with birdlime to catch birds 2. SNARE

 

[AllardChardon]

Hello, everyone.

limen - noun (1895) THRESHOLD

 

[Handley_Page]

Hello, everyone.

limen - noun (1895) THRESHOLD

It's that point at which a 'thing' is perceived or distinguished.

 

[AllardChardon]

Handley, my dictionary says it comes from Latin limen for transverse beam in a door frame, threshold. But, I can see how it could be used the way you pointed out.

Here's a funny one;

lime-juicer - noun (1859) 1. slang: ENGLISHMAN 2. slang: a British ship 3. slang: a British sailor

 

[oggbashan]

...

Here's a funny one;

lime-juicer - noun (1859) 1. slang: ENGLISHMAN 2. slang: a British ship 3. slang: a British sailor

It isn't funny. It was deadly serious and a matter of life and death for seamen.

Scurvy was a serious condition that could lead to a very unpleasant death. It was caused by a deficiency of Vitamin C.

Lime-juice was introduced into the British Navy to reduce the incidence of scurvy on long voyages. It wasn't as effective as fresh fruit and vegetables but it worked.

The Royal Navy sent sailing ships all over the world on long voyages. Lime juice could keep the sailors fit and effective.

Other navies didn't tend to make such long voyages so didn't see the need for lime juice.

But the word "limey" to describe an Englishman comes from lime-juice as issued on Royal Navy ships.

An aside: when Royal Navy ships are in the same port as American naval vessels, hospitality on the British ships is preferred. Why?

Because Royal Navy ships serve alcohol - duty free alcohol - but American ships are dry - alcohol-free. Some ancient salts still regret the ending of the daily Rum ration. It is thought that most of the British crews at the Battle of Trafalgar were drunk on the Rum. That meant that they continued to serve the guns even when injured, and if they required surgery on board, they were already full of anaesthetic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

 

[CarlusMagnus]

Yet in England we are encouraged to install water butts to collect rainwater.

In England, you have a lot of water—it even falls from the sky in quantity.

Denver gets about fourteen inches of rainfall per year. The American Southwest is arrid, and water is precious there.

 

[oggbashan]

In England, you have a lot of water—it even falls from the sky in quantity.

Denver gets about fourteen inches of rainfall per year. The American Southwest is arrid, and water is precious there.

Parts of England are short of water. Locally our annual rainfall is twenty-two inches. We have NO reservoirs. All our water comes from underground aquifers. So recent years they have been very low.

Welsh water supplies the English Midlands.

 

[Handley_Page]

Welsh water supplies the English Midlands.

Well, Birmingham, really.

 

[AllardChardon]

Og, I should have said funny-sounding word. I understand it was due to using lime-juice to combat scurvy, which was very serious, but I had no idea about British ships allowing alcohol, unlike the American ships. Makes perfect sense, though. Thank you.

And thank you Handley, Carlus, and Og, for the water conservation conversation. That's a mouthful.

limber(1) - noun (15c) a two-wheeled vehicle to which a gun or caisson may be attached

 

[beachbum1958]

It isn't funny. It was deadly serious and a matter of life and death for seamen.

Scurvy was a serious condition that could lead to a very unpleasant death. It was caused by a deficiency of Vitamin C.

Lime-juice was introduced into the British Navy to reduce the incidence of scurvy on long voyages. It wasn't as effective as fresh fruit and vegetables but it worked.

The Royal Navy sent sailing ships all over the world on long voyages. Lime juice could keep the sailors fit and effective.

Other navies didn't tend to make such long voyages so didn't see the need for lime juice.

But the word "limey" to describe an Englishman comes from lime-juice as issued on Royal Navy ships.

An aside: when Royal Navy ships are in the same port as American naval vessels, hospitality on the British ships is preferred. Why?

Because Royal Navy ships serve alcohol - duty free alcohol - but American ships are dry - alcohol-free. Some ancient salts still regret the ending of the daily Rum ration. It is thought that most of the British crews at the Battle of Trafalgar were drunk on the Rum. That meant that they continued to serve the guns even when injured, and if they required surgery on board, they were already full of anaesthetic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy

Actually, the Royal Navy originally supplied the sailors with lemon juice which was effective in combating scurvy, but then, in the 1850's, decided to switch to limes, which were grown by English planters in the colonies, rather than buying lemons from Johnny Foreigner in the med, and scurvy returned with a vengeance; Limes, for all that they are citrus fruits, paradoxically contain almost no vitamin C, unlike lemons. Prior to discovering that lemons held off scurvy, the Royal Navy used preserved sauerkraut, and boiled fruit juice, known as 'Rob' as their principal means of combating Scurvy, but, as they'd both been boiled, had lost most of their vitamin content; this is what Captain Cook took on his voyages with him from 1768, not lemons or limes, even though it had been known since 1754 that scurvy was prevented by citrus fruits and fresh vegetables, and the journals of his fellow officers indicate that scurvy was widespread among his men. Vitamin C is Ascorbic Acid, Ascorbic means 'anti-scurvy'. Sailors used to believe that only the touch of the earth would cure scurvy.

Interesting fact; red peppers contain up to six times more Vitamin C than oranges.

When Horatio Nelson's body was brought back from Trafalgar, it was kept in a barrel of brandy to preserve it for the voyage home, and the rumour arose that the sailors had used tubes of macaroni as straws to have a surreptitious swig from the barrel, even though the barrel was guarded day and night, and was found to be full when it was opened in Portsmouth. However, the legend stuck, and even today, the Navy expression for having a surreptitious tot of rum is 'tapping the admiral'...

 

[beachbum1958]

Parts of England are short of water. Locally our annual rainfall is twenty-two inches. We have NO reservoirs. All our water comes from underground aquifers. So recent years they have been very low.

Welsh water supplies the English Midlands.

This is possibly why, in the public urinal in Dollgellau, North Wales a graffito on the wall reads 'Piss harder, the English need the water'...

 

[Handley_Page]

Og, I should have said funny-sounding word. I understand it was due to using lime-juice to combat scurvy, which was very serious, but I had no idea about British ships allowing alcohol, unlike the American ships. Makes perfect sense, though. Thank you.

And thank you Handley, Carlus, and Og, for the water conservation conversation. That's a mouthful.

limber(1) - noun (15c) a two-wheeled vehicle to which a gun or caisson may be attached

You know, the Royal Navy has races with these.
See HERE.

 

[oggbashan]

You know, the Royal Navy has races with these.
See HERE.

Many years ago the Royal Dockyard I worked in considered entering a civilian field gun team. I went through the selection process to be one of the team but the authorities decided against it before the selection was completed. I was one of the longish shortlist of 100 possibles.

I suspect that the powers-that-be were afraid that the Royal Dockyard teams would win. They had a massive pool of available men, more than the Royal Navy could spare for the intensive training.

As a Boy Scout I had competed in their version of the event - with trek carts. They weren't as heavy as the field guns, but still hard work.

 

[AllardChardon]

Welcome, beachbum1958. The prevention of scurvy through citrus fruits is a fascinating subject and I thank you for the attention to detail. It is red bell peppers, rather than red chili peppers, that have more vitamin C than oranges, is it not? Just checking. I use both liberally, as well as fresh-squeezed orange juice, even though I'm not a sailor fearing scurvy. The part about Nelson's body, preserved in brandy, was quite amusing, along with the "piss harder" part. Thank you for contributing to this thread.

Handley, of course, I had no idea anyone would race anywhere, hauling a limber. That was one of the most surprising videos I have ever seen and I was hooked right away. No way could I have stopped watching it, until the winner crossed the line. It does give a good look at what men had to accomplish during warfare. Thank you so much for taking the time to post it.

Og, I love your personal history stories and the latest ones are as good as ever. You never fail to please.

I thought I knew the definition of this word, but not entirely, it seems;

lily-white(1) - adj (14c) 1. white as a lily 2. characterized by or favoring the exclusion of blacks esp. from politics 3. IRREPROACHABLE, PURE

lily-white(2) - noun (ca. 1903) a member of a lily-white political organization

 

[Tio_Narratore]

not to mention...

Lily-White (n.) a brand of corn syrup.

 

[oggbashan]

Lily white has been used for detergent advertising for decades:

http://img.tesco.com/Groceries/pi/041/4084500035041/IDShot_540x540.jpg

 

[beachbum1958]

Welcome, beachbum1958. The prevention of scurvy through citrus fruits is a fascinating subject and I thank you for the attention to detail. It is red bell peppers, rather than red chili peppers, that have more vitamin C than oranges, is it not?

Handley, of course, I had no idea anyone would race anywhere, hauling a limber. That was one of the most surprising videos I have ever seen and I was hooked right away. No way could I have stopped watching it, until the winner crossed the line. It does give a good look at what men had to accomplish during warfare. Thank you so much for taking the time to post it.

I have a memory of a naval historian (maybe...) at the Special Forces Club in Knightsbridge once telling me that the Naval field-gun race is a re-enactment of a real incident during the Peninsula War in Napoleonic times, but I'm a little vague on the details; I was listening through several layers of Singapore Gin Sling at the time, and most of that day is a little blurry...

I also have a photograph on my study wall of the funeral procession of my Great-Grandfather and his brother-in-law, both of whom were killed at a place called Kut Al Amara in Iraq, in 1917, in what was possibly the last ever sabres-drawn charge of the British cavalry, against the Turkish machine guns. Both men were buried in the family cemetery in Wellington, Somerset, and the coffins are being transported on gun caissons drawn by horses, rather than horse-drawn hearses. I've never been able to work out if that was because they were being honoured, or if it was because there was a shortage of hearses because of the huge number of funerals taking place at the time.

PS
You're right, it's bell peppers, although chillies are surprisingly well-stocked with Vitamin C too.

 

[Handley_Page]

I have a memory of a naval historian (maybe...) at the Special Forces Club in Knightsbridge once telling me that the Naval field-gun race is a re-enactment of a real incident during the Peninsula War in Napoleonic times, but I'm a little vague on the details; I was listening through several layers of Singapore Gin Sling at the time, and most of that day is a little blurry...

Siege of Ladysmith, according to Wiki.

 

[oggbashan]

I have a memory of a naval historian (maybe...) at the Special Forces Club in Knightsbridge once telling me that the Naval field-gun race is a re-enactment of a real incident during the Peninsula War in Napoleonic times, but I'm a little vague on the details; I was listening through several layers of Singapore Gin Sling at the time, and most of that day is a little blurry...

I also have a photograph on my study wall of the funeral procession of my Great-Grandfather and his brother-in-law, both of whom were killed at a place called Kut Al Amara in Iraq, in 1917, in what was possibly the last ever sabres-drawn charge of the British cavalry, against the Turkish machine guns. Both men were buried in the family cemetery in Wellington, Somerset, and the coffins are being transported on gun caissons drawn by horses, rather than horse-drawn hearses. I've never been able to work out if that was because they were being honoured, or if it was because there was a shortage of hearses because of the huge number of funerals taking place at the time.

PS
You're right, it's bell peppers, although chillies are surprisingly well-stocked with Vitamin C too.

1. Handley Page is correct. The field gun run commemorates the Siege of Ladysmith (or rather the Relief of Ladysmith!). Two of the guns used to break the siege were much larger than the four 12 pounders as used in the field gun competition and outranged the Boers' artillery by a substantial distance. The guns, taken from their mountings on board ship, were hauled across the African veldt.

During WW1 the Germans of the cruiser SMS Konigsberg did the same thing. Their guns were far more powerful than anything the British/South African forces had in East Africa. Those guns meant that thousands of British troops had to fight in Africa instead of Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Königsberg_(1905)

2. Gun carriages were and are used as a sign of respect. They are part of State Funerals, and Royal Funerals. For a local funeral to use a gun carriage was a considerable honour. More modern funerals of former UK service personnel can have a volley fired over the grave - far cheaper and uses fewer men.