Seeking a woman's opinion (for a subway harassment scene)

[joy_of_cooking]

Is this plausible?

Jenny liked to wear large over-ear headphones on the subway, even when she wasn't listening to anything. They helped muffle the squeal of the brakes, and they gave her an excuse to ignore the creeps.

This one's opening line was, "Konichiwa!" She ignored him the first time, then gave him a blank look when he waved a hand in front of her face.

"Konichiwa!" he repeated.

She shrugged and gestured at her headphones. Undeterred, he motioned for her to take them off. She lifted one cup reluctantly away from her ear.

He repeated himself again, this time adding, "It means hello! What are you listening to?"

Time for plan B. She gave him a big, slightly unhinged smile. "Oh, I'm so glad you asked! It's my pastor. He records his sermons for those of us who can't make it to service every day. Do you go to church?"

"Uh—"

"I had to miss yesterday," Jenny said, with a self-conscious little laugh. "My period started and the cramps were so bad I couldn't even get out of bed. Really heavy flow, too, lots of clots."

"I'm so sorry to hear that, ma'am." He took a step back, as if religion or menstruation might be contagious. It was time to go for the kill.

"It's okay. One of my sister-wives has been feeding me raw beef liver by the pound to help me make up the iron. I feel so much better already." She smiled at him with the beatific serenity of someone who felt the warmth of a benevolent god in every ray of sunshine. "Isn't it amazing how the Lord has provisioned the earth to provide for all our needs?"

"Uh, yes, ma'am. You have a good day, now."

"You too!"

He beat a hasty retreat. Triumphant, she moved her headphones back over her ear.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Looks great to me, assuming you are playing this for laughs.

 

[TheLobster]

As a reader, I’d be wondering why the guy tries to pull a Japanese greeting on her. Is she wearing some pieces of anime flair or Hello Kitty paraphernalia that’s visibly from Japan, etc.? It seems a little random.

Other than that, though, it’s quite hilarious. I liked it.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

I was trying to establish that she is Asian. I'll make that more explicit.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

As a reader, I’d be wondering why the guy tries to pull a Japanese greeting on her. Is she wearing some pieces of anime flair or Hello Kitty paraphernalia that’s visibly from Japan, etc.? It seems a little random.

Other than that, though, it’s quite hilarious. I liked it.

He might be a weeb, or just thinks it's a clever way to distinguish himself.

 

[TheRedLantern]

My subway experience is in NYC where this kind of thing is not uncommon (I'm Asian, so the attempt to say hello in Japanese is way too familiar). My main feedback is that she is much, much too talkative. These types of interactions tend to be over quick.

Him: "What are you listening to?"

Her: "Podcast" Headphones go back on, turn way to make it obvious she doesn't want to talk, but all the way around so that she can still see him out of the corner of her eye

If he continues to press her, like "what kind of podcast", then I could see her escalating slightly ... "It's about creepy subway guys" ... to make her position clear. The escalation path from there would be something like "move to a different spot on the car, even if you had to push people out of the way (which you would absolutely do because you're trying to attract attention to the situation and trust that everyone else is going to read it the way you do)" and then "change cars / get off at the next stop and find a cop or MTA employee")

If the car is crowded, probably someone would step in before she felt she needed to get off the car. Subway commuters have a somewhat pack mentality that closes around another subway rider who is making the ride uncomfortable.

I wouldn't expect someone to use her wordier approach, because every word you say may be taken by a creepy guy as an opportunity to continue the conversation. There's good chance that she'd say nothing and just put her headphones back on.

The overwhelming goal of the woman in this situation is to end the situation. She doesn't feel threatened (you get a really good sense of "weird and threatening" versus "just weird" and this guy codes as the second type), so she probably wouldn't move away unless he kept trying.

But trying to prove something would not occur to me. I wouldn't call this "not plausible" because it could happen, it just doesn't read like an authentic subway interaction, at least in the subways I've been on. Just to state again, my perspective is based on how I'd expect this to unfold on the New York City subway.

Edit: I'm talking about the woman's reaction only here when I say the reaction is not what I would expect. The creepy "Konnichiwa" approach from a man on the subway is probably the most believable thing I've read on Lit

 

[onehitwanda]

Plus one on being far too wordy.

I'm completely monosyllabic when someone who I don't know tries to talk to me in a space where I have not specifically put myself out there to be friendly. I cannot even imagine being polite to someone who came and imposed themselves like this; I've reverted to loud and extremely rude Afrikaans to a pushy charity mugger who seemed to have missed school on the day "No, thank you," was explained.

I'm not saying I would start vomiting ectoplasm or speaking in tongues while going cross-eyed, but I'm also not saying I wouldn't. Thankfully, it's not an issue these days. Being the wrong side of forty has its benefits.

Edit: I also don't take the Tube outside of rush hour, so there's no space for randos to get near me anyway. And, also, these days my commute is mostly train + walking, so again, it's just office workers, and their harassment method is generally email-and-incompetence-based.

But yeah. Ectoplasm.

 

[crookedletter]

I see what you're going for with the wordiness of her response, she's taking her own unique approach to trying to scare the guy off. But when you consider how common such encounters are it does seem like a lot of effort, when a simple "Fuck off" would likely be as effective.

It might make it more believable if we knew the character better, if there's setup to develop her sense of satisfaction at messing with people like this.

 

[MiaBabe23]

I like the idea of a woman putting a creep in his place this way, definitely satisfying
I personally think it needs a couple of rewrites
I agree the dialogue is too wordy; it’s a rare person who speaks at the length we might write at, and it’s also true the woman wouldn’t want to protract it any longer than needed
You can be just as clever and bold with briefer, realistic dialogue - reading it aloud, especially with someone else, can help
I personally wasn’t convinced by how easily the guy retreated at her first attempt. Some guys will keep at it if they’re getting the attention they’re after. The period comment and reaction was more effective
And linking an unhinged smile with listening to a pastor seems a bit odd; perhaps you’re thinking of something cultish or abstinent?
A nice scene though

 

[AwkwardMD]

Goldilocks zone on the wordiness. Not too wordy, not too terse.

 

[lovecraft68]

Plus one on being far too wordy.

I'm completely monosyllabic when someone who I don't know tries to talk to me in a space where I have not specifically put myself out there to be friendly. I cannot even imagine being polite to someone who came and imposed themselves like this; I've reverted to loud and extremely rude Afrikaans to a pushy charity mugger who seemed to have missed school on the day "No, thank you," was explained.

I'm not saying I would start vomiting ectoplasm or speaking in tongues while going cross-eyed, but I'm also not saying I wouldn't. Thankfully, it's not an issue these days. Being the wrong side of forty has its benefits.

Edit: I also don't take the Tube outside of rush hour, so there's no space for randos to get near me anyway. And, also, these days my commute is mostly train + walking, so again, it's just office workers, and their harassment method is generally email-and-incompetence-based.

But yeah. Ectoplasm.

This is exactly what we teach in defense courses.

This is fiction so I guess we need to stretch plausibility but when dealing with nasty situations that happen far too often every day, it's hard to shake off reality.

 

[lovecraft68]

Man vs Bear

Ladies, always take the bear.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

You know, if people in the real world took a stranger saying "hello" the way the people in this thread are suggesting they should the human race would have died off a century ago.

Saying "hello" to someone on the subway (or anywhere else) doesn't make a guy a "creep".

 

[Kelliezgirl]

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Saying "hello" to someone on the subway (or anywhere else) doesn't make a guy a "creep".

True, but the fact that the subway is such a confined place, one where you can't simply walk away from some person, is what puts people on guard. And sure, there are plenty of creeps who take advantage of that. Most people would rather play it safe than be polite and friendly.

Depending on the country/city, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance of a random person saying "Hello" being a creep of some kind. I approve of not risking it, especially for women. There are other places where one can approach the other person with intentions to be sociable or to try to initiate something.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

True, but the fact that the subway is such a confined place, one where you can't simply walk away from some person, is what puts people on guard. And sure, there are plenty of creeps who take advantage of that. Most people would rather play it safe than be polite and friendly.

Depending on the country/city, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance of a random person saying "Hello" being a creep of some kind. I approve of not risking it, especially for women. There are other places where one can approach the other person with intentions to be sociable or to try to initiate something.

How is being "polite" not also playing it safe? These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. One can say "not interested" in a variety of polite ways.
And what is the basis for your 50/50 ratio of creep to normal?

To bring this back to OPs point, the female in this case is dissuading him without being rude.
The male's behavior hasn't been threatening at this point, certainly not to "run screaming and attracting attention" levels.
She's essentially using verbal judo and making herself undesirable to him. It's actually a smart tactic.
Yes, her dialogue is a bit long for a "normal" response, but it's reasonable to think this is a pre-planned shtick the character has.

And if you think attracting attention is going to help because someone else will protect you, Iryna Zarutska would like a word.

 

[TheRedChamber]

You know, if people in the real world took a stranger saying "hello" the way the people in this thread are suggesting they should the human race would have died off a century ago.

Saying "hello" to someone on the subway (or anywhere else) doesn't make a guy a "creep".

Saying hello -in Japanese- to an Asian looking person in an English-speaking country without having any other reasonable reason to think she might be Japanese is indeed 'creepy' Even if she wasn't wearing headphones.

 

[AwkwardMD]

To redirect the conversation just a little, @joy_of_cooking I would say you haven’t quite written harrassment yet. It's maybe heading in that direction, and I think what you wrote is smart for the protagonist.

However, if we tried to apply the "does it walk, talk, and quack like a duck" method of deduction, I think all we can say is that this guy has webbed feet. Might be a duck. Might be a beaver. Too soon to say, and from her perspective probably not worth the effort/risk to find out.

Unwanted doesn't necessarily equal harrassment.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Is this plausible?

You completely lost me. What was the guy's intentions, and why did he back off from just some words? It doesn't sound at all plausible, even as comedy. I'd also like to know what city this is in. The United States or somewhere else?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

How is being "polite" not also playing it safe? These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. One can say "not interested" in a variety of polite ways.
And what is the basis for your 50/50 ratio of creep to normal?

To bring this back to OPs point, the female in this case is dissuading him without being rude.
The male's behavior hasn't been threatening at this point, certainly not to "run screaming and attracting attention" levels.
She's essentially using verbal judo and making herself undesirable to him. It's actually a smart tactic.
Yes, her dialogue is a bit long for a "normal" response, but it's reasonable to think this is a pre-planned shtick the character has.

And if you think attracting attention is going to help because someone else will protect you, Iryna Zarutska would like a word.

Yes, but once you start responding, many creeps/conmen see that as an encouragement to keep working an angle. Plus, creeps aren't always trying to cop a feel or to hit on a girl. There are plenty of other schemes they might be running.

I'm one of those who will likely respond to a hello, but I can fully understand those who don't. Also, most non-creepy people who use the subway are aware of the caution and guard most people have in such cases, and won't initiate with a "Hello" but rather with a "Miss, I'm sorry, but you dropped this," or something like that. They'll move to the heart of the matter right away rather than using basic pleasantries first.

And all those others who say "hello" because they do want to hit on a girl in the subway, or simply socialize, I'd just point to the nearest cafe or bar, where such activities belong.

 

[lovecraft68]

You know, if people in the real world took a stranger saying "hello" the way the people in this thread are suggesting they should the human race would have died off a century ago.

Saying "hello" to someone on the subway (or anywhere else) doesn't make a guy a "creep".

Hello? Of course not, but the type in question aren't saying hello or there wouldn't be a story.

I have two daughters. Men are creeps until the prove otherwise and the time to find out that proof isn't on a subway.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Saying hello -in Japanese- to an Asian looking person in an English-speaking country without having any other reasonable reason to think she might be Japanese is indeed 'creepy' Even if she wasn't wearing headphones.

Or the character is a little socially awkward and it's a poor attempt at humor.

 

[AwkwardMD]

@AwkwardlySet and @lovecraft68

I think the conversation would benefit from acknowledging that JoC framed the conversation (its in the thread title) around harrassment, but what's in the blurb is less obviously harrassment. I think we all agree that the protagonists method is a good, sane, safe choice, right?

Just wanna make sure we're all talking about the same thing.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Hello? Of course not, but the type in question aren't saying hello or there wouldn't be a story.

I have two daughters. Men are creeps until the prove otherwise and the time to find out that proof isn't on a subway.

But we haven't established if the person in question is that "type" or not. That's the heart of the matter, and since the FMC is sending him down in flames we will likely never find out.

 

[onehitwanda]

Saying hello -in Japanese- to an Asian looking person in an English-speaking country without having any other reasonable reason to think she might be Japanese is indeed 'creepy' Even if she wasn't wearing headphones.

Not to mention racist as fuck.