Seeking a woman's opinion (for a subway harassment scene)

[TheLobster]

As a reader, I’d be wondering why the guy tries to pull a Japanese greeting on her. (…) It seems a little random.

Okay, now that I think of it, it doesn’t seem random at all. It’s actually quite brilliant, whether intentionally or not.

What it does is to prime the reader to treat the whole scene as something that could come out of a wacky anime or manga series; in this context, its comedic effect it’s expected and thus obvious when it arrives. It’s so obvious, in fact, that I couldn’t fathom it might be interpreted otherwise — and was puzzled why the interaction is even called harassment — until people showed up and failed to read it in the same way.

So, on a second thought, I don’t think the “Konnichiwa” needs a justification at all.

 

[Nynah]

Is this plausible?

I agree with the others here on how wordy it is, given the setting. Subway cars are enclosed spaces and if it's moving, and there are a lot of people around, it's very loud so she might have to be shouting to be heard. If you want to keep the scene as is, I'd lend a little bit more in the way of description of the surroundings. Maybe it's late at night and the subway car is emptier than usual (also maybe a reason as to why the MC feels the need to be a little bit more proactive with her defense).

The subway car isn't a place to try and chat someone up. Everyone is just trying to get to where they need to go. I think it's plausible that this could happen so if this is what you want to write, I'd say go for it. It's your story you're trying to tell.

 

[gunhilltrain]

You know, if people in the real world took a stranger saying "hello" the way the people in this thread are suggesting they should the human race would have died off a century ago.

Saying "hello" to someone on the subway (or anywhere else) doesn't make a guy a "creep".

People in public in New York do not say hello to random people. I only greet people who are going in and out of my building. (About sixty apartments.) Even so, I couldn't name a single one of them. It was different when I was a kid sixty years ago.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Okay, now that I think of it, it doesn’t seem random at all. It’s actually quite brilliant, whether intentionally or not.

What it does is to prime the reader to treat the whole scene as something that could come out of a wacky anime or manga series; in this context, its comedic effect it’s expected and thus obvious when it arrives. It’s so obvious, in fact, that I couldn’t fathom it might be interpreted otherwise — and was puzzled why the interaction is even called harassment — until people showed up and failed to read it in the same way.

So, on a second thought, I don’t think the “Konnichiwa” needs a justification at all.

"Konnichiwa means hello!" is 100% some otaku shit they got straight out of a manga where it worked for the character.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

"Konnichiwa means hello!" is 100% some otaku shit they got straight out of a manga where it worked for the character.

Socially awkward weeb....

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I think we all agree that the protagonists method is a good, sane, safe choice, right?

I disagree. The protagonist's method, while humorous, is quite unrealistic and easy to see through. And since she already acknowledged the guy and responded to him, regardless of whether he's a true creep or just a guy who's offering some unwanted attention, he can easily respond with a "I'd be happy to go to the church with you," or something along those lines, and thus continue with his angle.

The simple "I'm sorry, but I'm listening to something important here, no offense," and then turning away from the guy would have been a better and safer tactic to repel the unwanted attention, IMO.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Socially awkward weeb....

100%, and under different circumstances I'm totally rooting for a nerdy character who finally works up the nerve to say hi to the girl he has a crush on.

I don't think that's what this is, but it’s close enough that I have sympathy for trying

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Not to mention racist as fuck.

This is why calling someone racist in 2025 has lost all meaning and people don't care.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Or the character is a little socially awkward and it's a poor attempt at humor.

I'm not sure how it's even a poor joke (a racist one maybe as others observed), but 'socially awkward guy with a opening line that doesnt land' is firmly in most women's definition of 'creepy' I wish it wasnt, but it is.

 

[AG31]

Is this plausible?

I'd keep reading. (A good thing.)

 

[AwkwardMD]

I disagree. The protagonist's method, while humorous, is quite unrealistic and easy to see through. And since she already acknowledged the guy and responded to him, regardless of whether he's a true creep or just a guy who's offering some unwanted attention, he can easily respond with a "I'd be happy to go to the church with you," or something along those lines, and thus continue with his angle.

The simple "I'm sorry, but I'm listening to something important here, no offense," and then turning away from the guy would have been a better and safer tactic to repel the unwanted attention, IMO.

Now we're getting into "what is the purpose of the scene." Maybe all JoC wants out of this is for the protagonist to walk out of the subway with a specific, slightly nervous mindset for the purpose of relieving that tension under different circumstances, with the right character who says the right thing.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I'm not sure how it's even a poor joke (a racist one maybe as others observed), but 'socially awkward guy with a opening line that doesnt land' is firmly in most women's definition of 'creepy' I wish it wasnt, but it is.

A poor attempt at humor, is just a poor attempt at humor. The number of socially awkward men, or men who are just plain uncomfortable approaching a woman and trying to introduce themselves vastly outnumbers the number of actual creeps.

When we shit on, or encourage others to shit on those people we push them right into the arms of the incel community.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I think we're all largely coming to the opinion that there are red flags here, and that the main thrust of what JoC attempted is "plausible." We'd all do it differently, we'd do it our way, and that's okay.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Now we're getting into "what is the purpose of the scene." Maybe all JoC wants out of this is for the protagonist to walk out of the subway with a specific, slightly nervous mindset for the purpose of relieving that tension under different circumstances, with the right character who says the right thing.

Umm, I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing, though. I was talking about subway behavior in general, in real life, not about that specific scene that JoC posted. JoC is certainly allowed to write such a scene in fiction in order to set a mood or to get us all to know the protagonist.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I think we're all largely coming to the opinion that there are red flags here, and that the main thrust of what JoC attempted is "plausible." We'd all do it differently, we'd do it our way, and that's okay.

Agreed, it's an interesting scene for a story. Run with it.

 

[lovecraft68]

But we haven't established if the person in question is that "type" or not. That's the heart of the matter, and since the FMC is sending him down in flames we will likely never find out.

So its the woman's fault for choosing to blow him off because doesn't know or want to know him?

Better safe than sorry. Worst that happens is she's rude to someone who may have been trying to just be nice. Worst thing that happens if she listens to the opinion of give everyone a chance is she ends up beaten and raped.

There are no do overs in life. be rude and be safe or be nice and get hurt. Of course there can be be nice and make a friend, but then we're back to how do you know?

I'm going to waste my time here with certain people and tell you a lesson from my class.

You're a woman walking through a somewhat sketchy area. You're turning the corner and see a few men sitting on the stairs and they look pretty shady, and I'm going to go all in upsetting the flakes here and we're going to say they're black and look like gang bangers because it makes my point about 'what would people think" being too important.

Now...here are your options. You're nervous and unsure so you can turn and walk the other way and have these guys think "Oh, she's racist!" or because you're so afraid of offending them you walk down the street.

Let's say you were nervous for no reason, you walk by, they say nothing, maybe they even say hi or something, no problem.

Or you get dragged into an alley and beaten and raped to an inch of your life.

First example you're safe and someone might think poorly of you.

Second? Yeah, imagine spending the rest of your traumatized life thinking you should have taken option one.

And know what? It sucks to think this way, its sucks to have to think this way but it's the real world, and I have way too much experience is how awful this world often is.

You can argue my point, but you're not arguing against me, you're arguing for women to take chances they shouldn't. Maybe you're in an area or had the type of life you haven't had to consider these things and good for you. But don't tell women its wrong to be suspicious and worry about themselves because that's what the assholes bank on you're making it easy for them.

Who gives a fuck what some stranger thinks of you, you made it home safe and that's what matters.

People don't like reality, tough shit.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Umm, I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing, though. I was talking about subway behavior in general, in real life, not about that specific scene that JoC posted.

Plausability and verisimilitude, if they are the goal (and JoC implied they were) means we can’t really separate the two. We have to take them together.

 

[AwkwardMD]

So its the woman's fault for choosing to blow him off because doesn't know or want to know him?

Better safe than sorry. Worst that happens is she's rude to someone who may have been trying to just be nice. Worst thing that happens if she listens to the opinion of give everyone a chance is she ends up beaten and raped.

There are no do overs in life. be rude and be safe or be nice and get hurt. Of course there can be be nice and make a friend, but then we're back to how do you know?

I'm going to waste my time here with certain people and tell you a lesson from my class.

You're a woman walking through a somewhat sketchy area. You're turning the corner and see a few men sitting on the stairs and they look pretty shady, and I'm going to go all in upsetting the flakes here and we're going to say they're black and look like gang bangers because it makes my point about 'what would people think" being too important.

Now...here are your options. You're nervous and unsure so you can turn and walk the other way and have these guys think "Oh, she's racist!" or because you're so afraid of offending them you walk down the street.

Let's say you were nervous for no reason, you walk by, they say nothing, maybe they even say hi or something, no problem.

Or you get dragged into an alley and beaten and raped to an inch of your life.

First example you're safe and someone might think poorly of you.

Second? Yeah, imagine spending the rest of your traumatized life thinking you should have taken option one.

And know what? It sucks to think this way, its sucks to have to think this way but it's the real world, and I have way too much experience is how awful this world often is.

You can argue my point, but you're not arguing against me, you're arguing for women to take chances they shouldn't. Maybe you're in an area or had the type of life you haven't had to consider these things and good for you. But don't tell women its wrong to be suspicious and worry about themselves because that's what the assholes bank on you're making it easy for them.

Who gives a fuck what some stranger thinks of you, you made it home safe and that's what matters.

People don't like reality, tough shit.

This is all excellent information, and I think any woman (or female protagonist) has to have this kind of thing in the back of their head when assessing red flags.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Plausability and verisimilitude, if they are the goal (and JoC implied they were) means we can’t really separate the two. We have to take them together.

Well, okay, then. I guess I simply don't see his scene as realistic. It's nice humor, sure, but it doesn't scream verisimilitude to me at all.

 

[TheLobster]

Maybe all JoC wants out of this is (...)

Well, we can't know for sure what she wanted, but we can already know what she's caused.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

So its the woman's fault for choosing to blow him off because doesn't know or want to know him?

Better safe than sorry. Worst that happens is she's rude to someone who may have been trying to just be nice. Worst thing that happens if she listens to the opinion of give everyone a chance is she ends up beaten and raped.

There are no do overs in life. be rude and be safe or be nice and get hurt. Of course there can be be nice and make a friend, but then we're back to how do you know?

I'm going to waste my time here with certain people and tell you a lesson from my class.

You're a woman walking through a somewhat sketchy area. You're turning the corner and see a few men sitting on the stairs and they look pretty shady, and I'm going to go all in upsetting the flakes here and we're going to say they're black and look like gang bangers.

Now...here are your options. You're nervous and unsure so you can turn and walk the other way and have these guys think "Oh, she's racist!" or because you're so afraid of offending them you walk down the street.

Let's say you were nervous for no reason, you walk by, they say nothing, maybe they even say hi or something, no problem.

Or you get dragged into an alley and beaten and raped to an inch of your life.

First example you're safe and someone might think poorly of you.

Second? Yeah, imagine spending the rest of your traumatized life thinking you should have taken option one.

And know what? It sucks to think this way, its sucks to have to think this way but it's the real world, and I have way too much experience is how awful this world often is.

You can argue my point, but you're not arguing against me, you're arguing for women to take chances they shouldn't. Maybe you're in an area or had the type of life you haven't had to consider these things and good for you. But don't tell women its wrong to be suspicious and worry about themselves because that's what the assholes bank on you're making it easy for them.

Who gives a fuck what some stranger thinks of you, you made it home safe and that's what matters.

People don't like reality, tough shit.

I didn't say anything was the woman's fault. I was simply talking about the story, there was no advantage in the context of the information we were given to being rude. So don't be.
In your other examples, I agree with you 100%. Cross the street, take a different path, go a mile out of your way, but avoid the threat.
My first concealed carry instructor quoted an old gun writer who was asked, "If you knew there was going to be a gunfight what would you take?"
His response was, "If I knew there was going to be a gunfight I wouldn't go."

His point being that we should do everything we can to avoid being in a situation where you would need it.

That said, we are talking about nothing more than an awkward social interaction at this point.
An if we REALLY want to drill down into personal safety having headphones on was her first mistake. Severely limiting your situational awareness, if you are in an environment that is so dangerous it justifies treating every human being as a predator taking one of your senses out of play is just dumb.

 

[AwkwardMD]

It's not *yet* a dumpster fire. There's still good and thoughtful stuff here.

 

[AwkwardMD]

An if we REALLY want to drill down into personal safety having headphones on was her first mistake. Severely limiting your situational awareness, if you are in an environment that is so dangerous it justifies treating every human being as a predator taking one of your senses out of play is just dumb.

Personally I wear my headphones a lot but don't have anything playing, and I'm autistic enough to be watching everyone around me without them knowing. If they think I'm distracted, they're less careful about being covert.

EDIT: I can't handle urban areas though, so my experience might not be relevant.

 

[lovecraft68]

To redirect the conversation just a little, @joy_of_cooking I would say you haven’t quite written harrassment yet. It's maybe heading in that direction, and I think what you wrote is smart for the protagonist.

However, if we tried to apply the "does it walk, talk, and quack like a duck" method of deduction, I think all we can say is that this guy has webbed feet. Might be a duck. Might be a beaver. Too soon to say, and from her perspective probably not worth the effort/risk to find out.

Unwanted doesn't necessarily equal harrassment.

The OP also calls this a sexual harassment scene, so I guess I'm walking in forewarned and forearmed because of what the aim is. If the OP said "So two people meet and initially FMC is suspicious but..." its different but for this we're given the context.

Unwanted/Harassment is the difference between an effort to engage with someone not wanting to be engaged with but you don't know until they tell you that. If you're told/shown that and you press that is now harassment.

The fact so many here are so quick to be like "Hey, he could be a good guy" when the damn topic says harassment shows why so many women get hurt. To use your analogy you don't know if its a duck and it can be a high price to pay to find out. Why chance it?

Seriously, this is why the genre isn't for me, even the people talking about favor the asshole.

Enabling by telling women they're being rude is disgusting.

Maybe some people need to just admit they don't know what the hell they're talking about. If anyone says that's me, that's fine. I've seen plenty of proof of what happens when women let their guard down and don't need to be agreed with here. Just a shame people push such appalling ignorance because its never been their ass in the sling.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

It's not *yet* a dumpster fire. There's still good and thoughtful stuff here.

Exactly. We are discussing and disagreeing and offering arguments. There's no name-calling, personal attacks etc. This is how every thread in the AH should be.