Second Person Narration

[LunarSolstice]

I just submitted my first erotic story, and I was wondering...I enjoy writing in second person, talking directly to the reader, pronouns such as you, your, et al. And while Ive been getting decent reviews and feedback, I was just curious as to two things:

A.) Can the reader get into the role even if the protagonist is a different sex? For instance, my story had a female protagonist who is being raped from her perspective...so would a man be able to get equally as into the story?

B.) Is this format distracting? In movies it is the first taboo to look directly into the camera (excluding such movies as Blair Witch Project of course where it is understood the movie is being filmed) and I feel the second person narrative is slightly reminiscent of this...

I would enjoy to hear your thoughts

-Lunar

 

[Gabriel_Lee]

Personally, I find second person narrative disquietening, especially where I am placed in an active role. This is regardless of whatever sex I may be required to be. My main problem with this is, that in order to follow the story, I have to understand what role I am actually taking ... but, in practice, I can only understand this by following the story as it unfolds, unless it is very well introduced.

An exception might be where I am in a more passive role and where the context is more natural and easier to fill comfortably, e.g. where I am the recipient of a letter, or maybe where I have come across a document which I was not originally intended to be the recipient of, but which has fallen into my hands. Both of these situations allow me to deal with the narrative on my own terms.

 

[karmadog]

A writer's job is to manipulate the reader, but to do it so subtly that the reader is unaware of it.

When it becomes obvious, I tune out.

2nd person starts out by making the reader feel pushed around. You did this, you did that.

Maybe it's just me, I am kind of stubborn.

By the way, I think it's a mistake to make comparisons with the movies. When a character in a movie turns to the screen and speaks 'to the audience' (Ferris Beuller's Day Off, High Fidelity), it tends to be a momentary thing. The movie is still predominantly a third person form.

 

[LunarSolstice]

Thanks

I appreciate both of your responses. Karma, I do understand the second person narrative not translating well from the Choose Your Own Adventure sort of books, but then again different strokes for different folks. Personally I get sort of an extra thrill for the direct candid personal nature from such stories. Than again, writing one such story you have to understand the tradeoff that you are only going to really connect even slightly with about half the readers.

Im currently trying to diversify my writing styles to appeal to more audiences, but I thank you for insights into my question.

-Lunar

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

LunarSolstice,

If you like to read and write second person stories-go ahead and write the suckers. HOWEVER, be aware that you'll automatically lose a lot more than just half the readers. There's a fairly vocal crowd here at Lit who hate, loathe, and despise second person.

I agree, as usual, with Karmadog. To his complaint about being "pushed around" I'll add that it always feels awkward and contrived.

"Personally I get sort of an extra thrill for the direct candid personal nature from such stories."

With the possible exception of bd/sm and non-consent stories, I've never understood why second person (when the writer tells what's happening to the reader) is more "direct candid personal" than the same story told in first person (when the writer tells what's happening to him/her). But as you pointed out, different strokes etc.

Good luck with your writing.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[gauchecritic]

I really really can not get into second person. I back click as soon as I see the first "you say to me" If I did it why don't I already know I did it?

Maybe I could get further than the first sentence if phrases such as "do you remember when?" or "think back to the time..." although I seriously doubt it.

The thing about it being to the reader personally is what I can't come to terms with, because it's so obviously about someone else and not me (sic).

On the other hand, I was speaking to someone tonight who can't read first person stories, even down to autobiographies. As you Yankees say "go figure"

Gauche

 

[KillerMuffin]

I've read good second person. Most of it irritates the hell out of me. I back-click immediately.

Second person is like a paint roller. It'll get the job done, however, only in the hands of a master can it render art.

I read that somewhere, darned if I remember where and darned if I remember who wrote it.

 

[openthighs_sarah]

I've read good second person. Most of it irritates the hell out of me. I back-click immediately.

I agree with KM and KarmaDog on this. A second-person story can be good, but probably only to a small group of people who aren't turned away by how presumptuous it is -- because they accept the role in which you've placed them. It says, "This is what excites you," instead of first or third person, which says, "This is what excites me... follow along if you want."

However -- HedbangerSA wrote a story that included a bit of second-person narrative (in the form of a chat transcript) that worked very well, I thought. The link is: http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=85716

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Funny. What usually bothers me in a story is bad writing, not if it's uses first, second or third person narration.

When I see a short-story using 2nd person (and I've read a number of very good ones) I never assume the author/narrator is adressing me, and therefore I can't feel bullied by it. S/he doesn't know me; that must have been written to someone else. Simple.

But maybe it's only wishful thinking of the voyeur in me.



And Muffie: that sounded a lot like a challenge to me...

 

[karmadog]

I'd argue, but she's got a gun.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Woah, don't want to turn the discussion into a Security Council meeting.

 

[Moyds_jewel]

ok...I'll give it a shot <pun intended>

After all this talk, decided to give second person a go. Whaddy'all think?

The doorbell rings.

I open the door and stare at a stranger. Tall. I have to look up. Green eyes. Brown hair. Beard. My god! It’s you! I am frozen in shock and rising excitement. You stare down at me and without a word, step inside when I open the storm door.

We stare into one another’s eyes and then, still without a word, you put your right hand on the back of my neck under the long fall of my black hair. Your fingers are warm as they curl into me. I obey the pressure and you bring me in to you, right up against your chest and put your left hand on my hip. I can’t look away. I can’t speak. I want you to shove me against the wall and fuck me. I know you can see it in my eyes.

I can’t believe you are here.

I can’t believe you found me.

You found me here in the Nevada desert that I love. You found me here trying to hang onto my sexuality, my female self. My pain reached you. You did not have to come. You should not have come. Sweet Christ, I am so glad you came.

You hold me against your chest, your hand on the back of my neck as we inhale each other’s scent for the first time. You tilt my head and very gently place your mouth over mine. The gentleness is a shock because we want to devour each other. We want to swallow one another whole.

For the first time, I get to taste you. You taste me. Your hands burn on my body where you hold me. I am shaking. You taste good. You taste bloody wonderful. My hands curl over your ribs, holding you there. We have not spoken a word since you appeared at my door.

When you lift your mouth, I am ready for you. Sweet fuck, I am so ready I can feel moisture between my thighs. My pores open, my body unfurls.

You know. You know exactly what I want and need.

You hold the door open for me and we leave. We have to take both cars. There is no motel. There is no hideaway. There is nothing for miles but heat, dust, sagebrush and my need for you that burns along my skin and keeps my hands trembling as I grip the steering wheel.

We take Mirage Creek road, a dry dusty road to nowhere. There is nothing there but the creek itself. I do this sometimes. Drive out into the desert just to let it take me over. So I know this road. This road, this way, fascinates me. It is so dry, yet alive too. And the creek is always there, never quite succumbs to the heat. A mirage that proves real.

I think ‘this road is my life, going nowhere but dry and dusty.’ I think, ‘this creek is my female body, struggling to hold on, to keep the dry desert wind from sucking me dry.’
I park under the willow, off the road near the creek bank. You pull in behind me. This tree offers the only shade for miles. Hell, this is the only tree for miles.

For a moment, we can only stand there and stare at one another. We can’t believe it. We cannot believe that my need pulled you here after everything we did to prevent it.

Oh, my lust is high! My lust rises off me in waves, a female heat. You know everything about my need. I gave that knowledge to you and now I see it reflected in your eyes. You know how to touch me. You know where to touch me. Oh god, I have given you the keys to me and you are here to use them. To use me.

I need it. I need you.
Sweet fuck, it has been so long.

You walk toward me, a small smile curving your mouth, your eyes hot with hunger and male need and desire. A little humor, too, and warm affection. Yes. This man, this male, wants me. He has come a long way to show me how much.

It is a hot day. A typical desert day. Wait five minutes and it will be five degrees hotter. I like hot sex and you know I like it best when both of us are so hot and sweaty that we wear each other’s scent. At that moment, as we stand near the cool quiet murmur of the creek, I am so hungry to taste myself on you that my mouth waters.

I want you more than I want my next breath.
Sweet, sweet lust. It has been too long.

I open the back hatch and show you the inside of car. Rear seats folded flat and topped with sleeping pads. Extra water without which no desert dweller leaves home.

“It will do,” you say.

The first words you speak to me as you put your hands on me, put your mouth against my temple.
I am shaking in your arms. My heart beats against my chest so hard, pulses so hard I am sure you can hear it. Feel it.

I want you so much. There is no time, this time, for soft seduction. I strip off my cotton shirt, my shorts and watch as your eyes widen. Sweat pops out on your brow, your upper lip. I want to grin and laugh out loud, I want to dance a jig of thrilled lust. You didn’t believe me. You didn’t believe that I wore this lacy, frothy stuff under my everyday clothes.
Told you I wouldn’t lie to you, babe. Told you so.

“Oh god! Katie-girl,” you say to me, fighting to remove your own clothes.

And hearing that - my name on your lips - sends a chill, a rush of lust straight to my sex. There is too much to see, too much to touch, to taste and I can’t wait. My body is on fire for you.
You cup my breasts even as I pull you with me into the back of the SUV.

“No,” I say, “Later, play later. I need your body in mine. I need your cock. Oh my sweet fuck, I need your cock in my pussy now. Please. Please.”

I am a female in heat. I am frantic with need. I whimper. You try to slow me down, soothe me, but I’m having none of it. There’ll be time later, I promise. There’ll be time later for slow and sweet and tender. Just fuck me now. Fuck me hard. Let me feel the reality of you inside my body where I have dreamed of it. Let me come on your cock. Let me have you. Please.

“Please.” I whisper again, moaning it against your skin and you back away a little.

You ease your body into position over me, spread my thighs with your knees.

“Open your eyes, Katie,” you whisper. “Watch me. Watch my cock take you.”

And you are there, where I am burning to have you, easing inside my sex, my pussy, my cunt. God, you feel better than I ever dreamed. I stare into your eyes as you slide your body into mine. I see your pleasure, your delight in the way my body welcomes yours. I see your desire for me, for Katie, and sweet fucking god, that’s it for me. My body convulses, arches up and seals itself against yours.

Jesus, I can feel your pulse at the base of your cock as my pussy clenches around you in orgasm.
I can’t fucking believe you can do this to me. No one has ever done this to me. I am incoherent. I think I am babbling your name.

“Oh, Katie-girl,” you murmur, stroking my hair, holding yourself quietly inside me as you wait for me. “My Katie-girl, what a sweet fuck you are.”

I am sucking air like a drowning woman, my chest heaves and my heart attempts to hammer an exit from my chest. Babe, you feel good there, buried to the balls in my body. When I return to reality, I find that you are nuzzling me, murmuring words into my hair, my ear; words that should be illegal. Words that might cause self-combustion. Somehow, you even managed to remove my bra.

You are oh-so-slowly sliding your body along mine. In mine. I take a deep, steadying breath loving the feel of you. Baby, let’s fuck until neither of us can walk.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Um. I don't have a cock.

 

[Moyds_jewel]

ROFL!!
No doubt a GOOD thing, KM

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Let me join my voice to the crepitating chorus, but for another reason.

Second person is the voice of private fantasy, and so usually comes across to me as sounding like the private mumblings of a self-absorbed masturbater. It's also the voice of commercial phone-sex, so there always seems to me something essentially wistful and pathetic in stories written in that voice. Worse, it always comes off as sounding amateur.

---dr.M.

 

[Madame Manga]

Second person always reminds me of a particular one of the very few books I have read that were written from that POV. It was a father's account of his little daughter's death from cancer. The whole thing was full of "You gaze up at me with those innocent blue eyes, wondering why your tiny body must undergo so much terrible pain."

I was in fifth grade when I read that. It still gives me freakin' nightmares. That's just personal bias, sure. But there are many reasons to avoid it other than the risk of my disapproval. ;-)

I'll agree with many of the above comments: second person is too specific to the POV character and his or her sex, it's amateur, it's creepy and intrusive. A lot of the time it involves the equivalent of ESP--"I touch you and you shudder, knowing I am the only one who can satisfy you." Whatever.

I, the reader, am irrelevant to second person. It's as if the characters can't be bothered to pay any attention to me, only to themselves. First person lets the character directly report her thoughts--I'm engaged in a familiar way as if someone were sitting down and talking to me. Third person is even more familiar though less direct, allowing some breathing space for the reader and room for her to draw her own conclusions. It's like watching a stage play from the best seat in the house--it's being told for the reader's benefit. Second person in erotica is like having a couple of strangers walk into your house without knocking, fuck loudly and messily on your sofa and jostle you out of the way as if you didn't exist. ;-)

MM

 

[KillerMuffin]

Second person can be done and done well. There's someone floating around here who positively insists that second person is totally viable because some famous so and so wrote successful novels exclusively in second person.

The problem with second person is that it's not a beginner's medium. Amateur writers, unless they're gifted the way Mozart was, should generally avoid second person. There are a few things that it does to author's train of thought that really highlights the bad writing quality.

1. It feels intimate but it's alienating. When you write in second person, you feel very close to your reader because you are writing directly to the reader in your head. The problem is that this reader either doesn't exist or is a lover or other close acquaintance. This leads to problem number 2.

2. The author does not see "you" as a character in the story, but as the reader. There is a substantial difference in the way a story is written depending on how the author views the protagonist. The failing with second person is that the author doesn't see "you" as the protagonist, but as the person on the other end of the monitor. This leads to problem number 3.

3. Amateur writers do not develop the "you" as a character. "You" has little or no personality. It's abominably difficult to get "you" to emote in any way that seems reasonable and doesn't sound like a command. This leads to problem number 4.

4. In second person, most authors are telling "you" what "you" did and how "you" felt about it. They don't show it. One of the most oft repeated commandments of good writing is to show, not tell, the reader what's happening. This all leads up back to a rendition of problem number one. The author feels as if they're telling "you" a story rather than telling the reader a story about "you". This intimacy of telling "you" a story is very misleading because it confuses "you" the character with "you" the reader.

If that makes any sense at all.

I have seen masterful second person stories. I have even seen amateur writers here at Lit write a decent second person tale. However, these are so rare that they might as well be a 1969 ragtop Shelby Cobra.

My suggestion to any beginning writer is to steer well clear of second person. In my opinion, the best POV and tense for a new writer to use is past tense, third person limited. Why?

Past tense is a comfort zone and doesn't require a great deal of work to make it palatable to the reader, that leaves the author with plenty of room to concentrate on other parts of writing the story without the reader noticing anything different.

Third person forces the author to treat all of the characters involved as characters, and not as themselves or as people they know. While injecting self and all that is good, it's very important that the author learn to retain enough detachment from the character to develop that character. It's difficult to develop yourself as a character because you tend to have yourself do things that fulfills your fantasies at the expense of the suspension of your reader's disbelief.

Limited, as opposed to omniscient, also forces the author to treat the plot and situations in ways that's easier for the read to access and believe rather than through god-like manipulations that aren't very natural.

I know, I know. I writer should write the way they want to. No one should be forced into a mold that stifles creativity. There are two parts of writing, the creation and the mechanics. Creation is art. Mechanics is just that, mechanical constructs. The writing art is bounded by the use of words--further, the use of language. The art is using language that the reader is seduced by. The mechanics is using language that the reader can understand and believe. You can't have art without learning the mechanics first. Learning these things means writing exercises specifically to learn these things.

And that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

 

[Madame Manga]

I have seen masterful second person stories. I have even seen amateur writers here at Lit write a decent second person tale. However, these are so rare that they might as well be a 1969 ragtop Shelby Cobra.

Do you have the names of the author or authors who handle second person well? I haven't run across anything of the kind yet. I'm interested to see these rare birds.

4. In second person, most authors are telling "you" what "you" did and how "you" felt about it. They don't show it. One of the most oft repeated commandments of good writing is to show, not tell, the reader what's happening. This all leads up back to a rendition of problem number one. The author feels as if they're telling "you" a story rather than telling the reader a story about "you". This intimacy of telling "you" a story is very misleading because it confuses "you" the character with "you" the reader.

Good point--second person is the epitome of telling.

I don't feel an internal confusion between myself as the reader and "you" as the character--I feel as if "you" is sitting uncomfortably close to me and pushing me out of my chair, or as if the author has delusions and has mistaken me for someone else. I guess that's confusion of a kind, even if it's not mine. My mind seems to be built in a way that doesn't let me slip into someone else's fantasy from that angle. Maybe that's why I don't cyber. ;-)

In any case, even in the hands of a master, second person is liable to cause me discomfort. If that was the aim in the first place, I would applaud the choice of POV on a technical basis, though the story isn't likely to be something I would read for pleasure!

MM

 

[karmadog]

That post should be adapted and placed in the 'Writer's Resources' section.

 

[Tawny T]

I ALWAYS skip second person stories. Read a good novel, no one writes that way. It is too contrived.

Get your reader involved with the story. Balance a good plot with some hot sex and you'll have a winner.

 

[Alex De Kok]

My story, A Date for the Prom was originally written in second person. However, it was intended for an audience of one, and that's the only way second person works for me. The intimacy intrudes, otherwise.

Alex

 

[Krypt_Mistress]

I dislike writing in the second person, and it was something we were always warned to steer clear of when learning how to write fiction. You shouldn't assume about your reader, YOU did this, while the reader sits and thinks, no, I wouldn't be stupid enough to do that. It can aggravate the reader and spoil the enjoyment they would get from a story.

The better option is to write in the first person, with a lot of descriptions. That is similar to writing YOU DID THIS except not as in your face, it flows better for the reader to read it as I DID THIS, because although they can put themselves in the place of the first person, they aren't having it forced upon them, and if they disagree with what's happening, it's just a character in a story.

However, it could possibly work for short, erotic fiction as that's a different kettle of fish to other styles of writing. I mainly write horror, cult fiction, fantasy etc and I don't believe I could write with any degree of style or effect by using the second person. I've recently written a 20,000 word short story written entirely in the first person where the first person only gets a name on page 18 (I believe). To me, this makes the reader buy into the story more, because the first person is nameless, they just start to fall into believing the story is them.

Whereas, if I had used YOU instead of I, I think I would have turned readers away. But, as someone else said, it is a matter of taste and some people might enjoy that writing style, I don't view it as a style to be enjoyed, and one which we were forced in school to understand as wrong and amateur.

 

[jfinn]

HedbangerSA wrote a story that included a bit of second-person narrative (in the form of a chat transcript) that worked very well, I thought. The link is: http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=85716

Originally posted by Madame Manga
Do you have the names of the author or authors who handle second person well? I haven't run across anything of the kind yet. I'm interested to see these rare birds.

Sarah's right, this story handles second person extremely well. It's one of the few stories I've ever read where I thought it not only worked, but actually made the narrative stronger.

However personally I can't see me ever using second person and for all of the reasons that have been listed her, plus I tried it once and it felt so awkward I gave up after a couple of hundred words. I figured if I can't stand writing it, chances are a reader will hate it too.

Jayne

 

[DarlingNikki]

Second person question for those who don't like second person.

What about a story in which "you" are not present, but "I" am thinking about "you" and wishing "you" were there? I don't really make it clear whether "you" are male or female. Really the story's about "I" but instead of saying something like, "I wished he/she was here touching me last night " I say "I wished you were here touching me last night."

Is that less annoying?

I just want to do a little experimenting and grow as a writer but to be honest I'm not crazy about second person myself.

(This is my third edit. Why can't I get my thoughts together?)

 

[Krypt_Mistress]

I've been writing for 14 years now, I've been published in non fiction and offered to be published in e-book, fiction. In all my time of learning and growing as a writer, I've always read and seen the second person narrative being viewed as an inexperienced, amateur writer. Whether it is carried off well or not, it is not something considered professional.

To put 'you' into a story anywhere, really isn't required. 'I was thinking of you' - who is you? how can the writer ever know who 'you' is - unless as someone else has said, it is being written for one person, and one person only.

It should be "I was thinking of him/her". The reader should not be an active part of the story, they should be invited into the world through either the first person (more taking part) or through the third person, where they are the spectator. 'You' should never come into it.