Scream !!!!!!! Who invented forms? They need hanging!!

[matriarch]

Mat having a rant.............please excuse.... read, laugh, commiserate....then move on.


*sigh*

Anyone out there want to give me some advice on job application forms?

I HATE filling in forms, especially local government versions.

Interminable, incomprehensible, repetitive.......a CV? Nah, you got to write it all out in bad handwriting, on a form full of boxes that are wayyyyy too small.

Why on earth would they want to bother with a neat, precise, easily read, comprehensive life, education and employment history, all typed out when they can provide you with .......this....*waving a sheaf of badly designed papers at the screen* !!

Its an evil plot designed to frighten away genuine candidates, and only leave those that can write in tiny writing, and have hours and hours and hours of time to make it perfect.

I have this evening, or I miss the cut off date/time.

Aaargh..........a late, frustrating evening ahead...and its already past 9pm.

Rant over.

Mat

 

[Lisa Denton]

Chill out Mat!! When you was waving them papers at the screen the air blowed everything off my desk. Take a couple aspirins, a couple deep breathes, maybe a couple shots of tequila, and then look at them again. Hope this helps, Lisa.

 

[cloudy]

Dear Madam,

Part of the selection process for qualified candidates is an evaluation of their patience as required to wade through pages of inane information asked for for no other reason other than we can.

As this is classified information, please keep it to yourself or we'll have to hunt you down and kill you.

Thank you,

The Personnel Department.

 

[matriarch]

Chill out Mat!! When you was waving them papers at the screen the air blowed everything off my desk. Take a couple aspirins, a couple deep breathes, maybe a couple shots of tequila, and then look at them again. Hope this helps, Lisa.

 

[matriarch]

Dear Madam,

Part of the selection process for qualified candidates is an evaluation of their patience as required to wade through pages of inane information asked for for no other reason other than we can.

As this is classified information, please keep it to yourself or we'll have to hunt you down and kill you.

Thank you,

The Personnel Department.

Evil woman !!

Thank you, beautiful. That made me smile.

 

[pop_54]

Lisa's right Mat, those forms are so much easier when you're pissed... I always get three sheets into wind before filling forms... Probably why I wrote...'What the hell have my private hobbies and interests got to do with electrical engineering' on a job application form a while back... They offered me the job by the way I turned it down cos they weren't offering enough bunce.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

...electrical engineering' ... job ... weren't offering enough bunce.

Pops,

What is bunce?

Does it, as I suspect, have something to do with filthy lucre, or is it the rubberish material electicians put in their shoes to keep from being crisped, should they accidentally touch the wrong contact.

 

[matriarch]

Lisa's right Mat, those forms are so much easier when you're pissed... I always get three sheets into wind before filling forms... Probably why I wrote...'What the hell have my private hobbies and interests got to do with electrical engineering' on a job application form a while back... They offered me the job by the way I turned it down cos they weren't offering enough bunce.

I agree........*lifting my glass, draining the second brandy and coke*.

So, if I put in my hobbies, 'writing short stories and poetry'...how many of you would put money on them giving me the position if I tell them just WHAT I write ???? Huh??? Local Government Training Officer? I think not.

And sod's law decrees, that one of them will just have to ask me what I write....

If it wasn't for the fact that the job pays a lot more, and I need to get away from the neanderthal I currently work for, I would not be putting myself through this.

*sigh*. One step out of the way, CV updated, flattering photograph inserted.

OK. Form No. 1.......Age.......Oh, come on !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lisa Denton]

Lisa's right Mat, those forms are so much easier when you're pissed... I always get three sheets into wind before filling forms... Probably why I wrote...'What the hell have my private hobbies and interests got to do with electrical engineering' on a job application form a while back... They offered me the job by the way I turned it down cos they weren't offering enough bunce.

I think pop just clinched it for ya Mat. Put down that your hobby is electrical engineering, I mean, who the f**ks gonna argue, and they will definately be impressed.

 

[Just-Legal]

I agree........*lifting my glass, draining the second brandy and coke*.

So, if I put in my hobbies, 'writing short stories and poetry'...how many of you would put money on them giving me the position if I tell them just WHAT I write ???? Huh??? Local Government Training Officer? I think not.

And sod's law decrees, that one of them will just have to ask me what I write....

If it wasn't for the fact that the job pays a lot more, and I need to get away from the neanderthal I currently work for, I would not be putting myself through this.

*sigh*. One step out of the way, CV updated, flattering photograph inserted.

OK. Form No. 1.......Age.......Oh, come on !!!!!!!!!!!

Name: Helen *****
Age: A lady never tells
Sex: Yes please!
Location: Location Location

Previous Employment History:
What's employment?

Schooling:
Shagging behind the bike sheds count?

Examinations:
Several. Mostly for STI's. You want the results when I get them?

References:
Mike Smith - Says I give good head
Luke Sanders - Agrees with Mike.

Hope that made you smile.

 

[matriarch]

Name: Helen *****
Age: A lady never tells
Sex: Yes please!
Location: Location Location

Previous Employment History:
What's employment?

Schooling:
Shagging behind the bike sheds count?

Examinations:
Several. Mostly for STI's. You want the results when I get them?

References:
Mike Smith - Says I give good head
Luke Sanders - Agrees with Mike.

Hope that made you smile.

 

[matriarch]

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*Breathing deeply*................sorry people, I just had to do that.

One form complete.
One to go.
I need a ciggie.
And another drink.

 

[matriarch]

Forms complete.........illegible, but complete.

I'm off to bed.

This thread is now dead.

It has ceased to be.

It is a non-thread.

Oh god, the lunacy has infected me !!

 

[Liar]

Name: Helen *****
Age: A lady never tells
Sex: Yes please!
Location: Location Location

Previous Employment History:
What's employment?

Schooling:
Shagging behind the bike sheds count?

Examinations:
Several. Mostly for STI's. You want the results when I get them?

References:
Mike Smith - Says I give good head
Luke Sanders - Agrees with Mike.

Hope that made you smile.

That was classic

 

[oggbashan]

Retired form designer comes clean...

I used to design forms for part of the UK's Civil Service.

I was still designing forms in the 1990s.

For job application forms the candidate's handwriting is important -

- It makes it difficult for the form to be completed by someone else. A simple comparison with a form completed by the candidate in person on the day of an interview is likely to show up any difference.
- It shows that the candidate can write legibly (or not) and follow instructions.
- It prevents proforma applications from candidates who have no real interest in the particular post.

A long time ago I wanted an office junior in a town with high unemployment. The pay was very good for that town because it was a national rate, not a local one. I had to select a maximum of 12 people to be interviewed but the minimum educational qualifications were very low. I expected a large number of applications and I was right. There were over 400.

The application form stated "Complete in your own handwriting in black ink (fountain pen or ballpoint)" and "Do not send CVs" (resumes). If the applicant obtained the form from a Job Centre they would be offered a black ballpoint pen and the Job Centre would provide the stamped addressed envelope. If they applied by post we sent a black ballpoint pen and a stamped addressed envelope with the form.

About one twelfth did not use the stamped addressed envelope. One third of applicants did not use black ink. That third went straight on the reject pile. Those left who had used another envelope went into the next selection process with a query.

Those who filled the form in black ink but in BLOCK CAPITALS were rejected. 230 odd applications were left.

Those who did not mention that they had the minimum qualifications or better were rejected even if internal evidence suggested that they probably had the minimum required.

Those who had sent CVs, even if they filled in boxes saying "see CV" for qualifications or training were rejected.

About 150 applications were left. I looked at all 150 personally. I pulled out those who had made a point of saying something about the post that I wanted filled such as 'I could bring experience of...'.

I was down to 50. Any one of those 50 appeared to be more than capable of doing the job. I selected 12 that showed something in the paperwork that gave a feel of the person instead of a robot. Interests, hobbies, job experience or lack of it, a turn of phrase - anything that showed a slight difference. I put them in order of their academic qualifications from 16+ school to various degrees, masters, doctorates.

The 12 were invited for interview in order of their qualification level. The two with doctorates were useless. They could write but had no experience of office work and no apparent understanding of it. They were 'perpetual students' who had never worked, not even as staff in a fast food joint.

We (we were a panel of three) were stuck between 2 of the 12 until one of us noticed that one of them actually lived 50 miles from the office in a town where we would need another office junior in two weeks' time. I rang her at home. Would she like to be considered for a job where she lived? She would and would prefer it. It would save 15% of her pay that she would otherwise spend travelling. We appointed both. They had completed the forms exactly as asked and had overcome the limitations of the system to portray themselves as individuals.

Within six months both had been promoted and we started all over again for their replacements.

Og

 

[snooper]

Re: Retired form designer comes clean...

I used to design forms for part of the UK's Civil Service. ... all over again for their replacements.

That whole sad story illustrates perfectly what is wrong with the Civil Service. They waste vast amounts of effort and resources.

When we wanted a junior in a commercial organisation, we had similar expectations of vast numbers of forms. We only got about 50. We had sent out application forms via the local Job Centre only and did not advertise. We did not send SAE's or free pens. We did not specify the colour of ink, nor debar CV's.

We piled the envelopes for three days on a table in the corner. Then we piled them up in a large empty box, shook and stirred them for a minute or two, then we tipped them all out and I grabbed ONE and opened it. If that one fitted the needs I put it aside. If not it went in the "no" bag. Then I opened another and ditto. When I had four in the pile put aside we then shovelled all the others into the "no" bag.

We called the four in for interview, allocating fifteen minutes each, and hired two on a one month trial, at the end of which one was to be fired and the other kept.

The first task for the newly appointed pair was sending a form letter to all in the "no" bag.

Since neither of them was useless, and both had worked like mad for the month's probation, we kept both.

Using Ogg's wonderfully fair process must have taken 30 minutes per form (as he describes it) on average. That is one tenth of a man-year, just processing the applications for an office junior job. Then add 400 black ball-points, 400 reply paid envelopes, sending out 400 forms, and you will see why taxes are so high.

 

[oggbashan]

It wasn't for a job in the Civil Service - it was for a commercial company long after I'd left the Civil Service. I was complying with the UK's employment legislation by using a demonstrably fair process.

It didn't take 30 minutes per application. The whole sort took less than one person day, most of it done by a junior member of staff. The successful person sent out all the 'no' letters and we replied to every one.

We never did it again. The next vacancy we announced on a vacancy feature on the local radio and gave candidates half an hour to ask for an application form. We had 20 candidates and only interviewed 3.

The black pens were from an over order. The stamped addressed envelopes were an expense but the whole process cost a minute fraction of the normal process which would have required every 'qualified' applicant to be interviewed - about 300.

As for CVs - there is no standard CV. You can include or omit anything you like. A CV is useless for comparison with other candidates.

Og

 

[minsue]

Og, why were those who completed the forms in BLOCK CAPITALS rejected? Just curious.

 

[Weird Harold]

Og, why were those who completed the forms in BLOCK CAPITALS rejected? Just curious.

To sve you the wait until Oggs gets back, the answer is, "they didn't follow the instructions."

The application form stated "Complete in your own handwriting in black ink (fountain pen or ballpoint)"

 

[minsue]

To sve you the wait until Oggs gets back, the answer is, "they didn't follow the instructions."

*insert forehead smack here* That's right. Thank you. I never think of handwriting as being cursive versus printed. To me it's handwritten versus typed. Must be a generational thing.

 

[matriarch]

*insert forehead smack here* That's right. Thank you. I never think of handwriting as being cursive versus printed. To me it's handwritten versus typed. Must be a generational thing.

The problem with that request, i.e. non-capitals, is that I know of many people who do write in capitals, not to be awkward, but because that's the way they write.

I have one friend with whom I worked closely during our separate years of studying with the Open University. She was a great support to me over the 7 years, and as a thank you, simply because I am a professional typist, and she does not type, I got into the habit of typing her assignments for her (only on the foundation course and one other called Philosophy of Art did our chosen modules coincide). She would paintstakingly write out her assignment, with revision after revision, in pencil IN BLOCK CAPITALS, before I typed it up. It would take her days and days and days to complete her assignment, and me about 20 minutes to type it up. I often wondered if it would have been quicker if written in cursive.

I know mine would be, but then it would have been illegible. I have something of a reputation for illegibility. In past employment, I have been requested to type all messages.

My handwriting simply cannot keep up with my brain, so for me, with a typing speed on a typewriter (for those who remember them), of around 70 or 80 words a minute, and on a computer keyboard of in excess of this, it is simply easier to type everything.

I have been typing for so long now, since I was 14 when I first learned, that I simply think through my fingers and the keyboard. Hand writing is a real chore, but there are occasions when I prefer to hand-write......greetings cards, obviously, special personal letters, I will always handwrite......slowly and deliberately, like a kid on a handwriting lesson.

And, of course, there are the forms. The damned forms. And now I've come full circle.

Mat

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Its an evil plot designed to frighten away genuine candidates, and only leave those that can write in tiny writing, and have hours and hours and hours of time to make it perfect.

Mat

Curses, she's discovered my vile plan. Now I'll have to send out the forms to have her killed.

 

[minsue]

The problem with that request, i.e. non-capitals, is that I know of many people who do write in capitals, not to be awkward, but because that's the way they write.

Exactly! I generally write in small caps. (all block capitals, but with the letters that would not normally be capitalized smaller than the ones that would) My handwriting leaves plenty to be desired and that is the most legible way for me to write. When I was in school and writing papers all the time, I was so used to it that I wrote in small caps much more quickly than I could write in cursive.

And, of course, there are the forms. The damned forms. And now I've come full circle.

Mat

 

[matriarch]

Re: Re: Scream !!!!!!! Who invented forms? They need hanging!!

Curses, she's discovered my vile plan. Now I'll have to send out the forms to have her killed.

But going on Oggs method of selection, you are going to have a hard time selecting your candidate, so I'm not worried. Plenty of time.

 

[minsue]

Re: Re: Re: Scream !!!!!!! Who invented forms? They need hanging!!

But going on Oggs method of selection, you are going to have a hard time selecting your candidate, so I'm not worried. Plenty of time.

ROFL!!