Saving water

[OhMissScarlett]

Drill another damned well and tap the water table. Dam a river and create a reservoir, build a nuclear plant and desalinate the ocean if nearby, collect and store rainwater and snowmelt, dozens of 'proactive' ways to manage the environment to satisfy the needs of man.

But then, you most likely don't have a clue.

Nevermind...


amicus...

Well, thanks, I'm sure the people of AUSTRALIA hadn't even thought of this!

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=OhMissScarlett]Well, thanks, I'm sure the people of AUSTRALIA hadn't even thought of this! [/QUOTE]

~~~

Well, miss scarlett in the library, I could just skip on by this...but...I seem to be on a roll...

Nevil Shute Norway wrote a few novels, "A Town Called Alice" Alice Springs, I think and, "Beyond the Black Stump", I think, both, if I recall, about Australia.

On my sour side; and for those who don't know History: the land down under served as a Penal Colony for the British Empire because it was barren and drought ridden.

And so my dear child, I am not unaware of places in the world, outside the temperate zone in which fresh water is at a premium and special circumstances exist.

The threadstarter here, I think, is not in such an area, nor in a third world nation where water is carried in gourds on the cranium, but rather in a feminine dominated society where adaptation, (typically female) is postulated.

I was simply saying, hey, take care of things!

As I am sure you understood.

amicus...

 

[carsonshepherd]

Conservation and rationing are a 'pussified' passive, reactive stance that I personally find repulsive.

Drill another damned well and tap the water table. Dam a river and create a reservoir, build a nuclear plant and desalinate the ocean if nearby, collect and store rainwater and snowmelt, dozens of 'proactive' ways to manage the environment to satisfy the needs of man.

This has worked out well for the human race so far, considering our dwindling supply of fossil fuel. What is your proposed remedy for that, amicus, just out of curiosity?

 

[carsonshepherd]

[/I]

but rather in a feminine dominated society where adaptation, (typically female) is postulated.
...

Some people believe that adaptation is why the human race has become the dominant species on this planet.

 

[rgraham666]

Some people believe that adaptation is why the human race has become the dominant species on this planet.

Count me among them.

And V? You didn't fall down down worshipping at our friend's feet, limiting your observations to "We hear and obey, O Magnificent and Wise One."

Therefore you're a liberal twat. See? Simple.

 

[scriptordelecto]

[/I]

I was simply saying, hey, take care of things!


amicus...

Is THAT what you were saying?

I was beginning to think that the point was not in your post, but lodged somewhere beyond your cranial plates.

 

[Liar]

[/B]Man can do almost anything to manage and control his environment to suit his needs. I just quiver at the sight of 'wishfullthinking' as she collects water in a bucket from under her shower as a way of life.

Um. Who says it is "a way of life"? Who says she doesn't favor damming that river and digging that well? Oh yes. You do. And you alone. Chiding on like you discovered something new and shiny that the world needs to be taught about.

The gentleman assumes too much, methinks.

This is about getting water today, not dreaming of terraforming projects. But I'm sure you'd start calling contractors for aqueducts and irrigation landscaping, while your throat turned dryer and dryer.

 

[kendo1]

Hill fires in Scotland, in April - it's meant to be April showers here. We've not had rain in Edinburgh for three weeks.

This might not seem a lot to other people here, but this is Scotland! - the land of everlasting rain interspersed with drizzle. That's why we're so dour.

I might smile soon if this continues. *shivers in disgust at the thought*

 

[amicus]

Carsonsheperd...

"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by amicus
Conservation and rationing are a 'pussified' passive, reactive stance that I personally find repulsive.

Drill another damned well and tap the water table. Dam a river and create a reservoir, build a nuclear plant and desalinate the ocean if nearby, collect and store rainwater and snowmelt, dozens of 'proactive' ways to manage the environment to satisfy the needs of man.


This has worked out well for the human race so far, considering our dwindling supply of fossil fuel. What is your proposed remedy for that, amicus, just out of curiosity?

~~~

You also mentioned adaptation as primary in man's ascent to the top of the food chain.

Taking on faith that your question is a sincere one, I hasten to say and declare that I am not a scholar nor an expert on energy matters by any means, although it has been an ongoing interest for a long time.

It has been scant more than a hundred years since mankind first began to put petroleum products in play, other than coal burning which preceded oil drilling by quite some time.

Crude oil was first utilized as 'kerosene, to replace the increasingly costly whale oil used for illumination.

It is a fascinating history, that of the oil and gas industry that began in Pennsylvania and then spread to the rest of the world in a few decades as the value of crude oil became more widely understood.

With the invention of the internal combustion engine, gasoline and diesel became a 'strategic' factor as motorized military organizations around the world required larger and larger amounts of fuel.

As the ability to utilize electrical energy expanded, demand was created for generating sources mostly using steam turbines fired by coal, gas and oil and of course hydroelectric plants where feasible. It is interesting to notice the history of Niagara Falls as the first hydro plant in the world and the means by which that came about.

The decades following the industrial revolution and the magnificent 20th century saw a geometric increase in the demand for sources of energy as entire nations around the world were electrified and connected by concrete roadways, automobiles and trucks.

Use your own knowledge about the expansion, worldwide, of the consumption and demand for energy as the last half of the 20th century came to a close.

I stipulated that I am not an expert or a scholar on energy matters, however that does not signify ignorance. So when you ask me, personally for a rememdy, by initial response is to heed those who do know about such things, the oil and natural gas industry.

Anyone cognizant of the entire range of parameters, will include, hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, alternative and thermal energy sources and those who can rationally observe the possibilities without political bias or ideology at least have some idea of that which is possible and that which is not in terms of supplying the increasing demand for energy.

My approach is quite simple. Let those who are most able make the decisions. Take the decisions away from political bodies and pressure groups, allow the industry to solve the matter.

The real difficulty is not one of deciding which energy source to tap, but rather a political and sociological dilemma where conflicting interests have delayed progress and planning and restricted progress in meeting future demands for energy.

While adaptability is an asset to animals, it is not the defining characteristic concerning the progress of man. I am concerned about the 'hunker down' attitude of many I find expressing thoughts here, conservation, cutting back, going stagnant, reverting to earlier times. I find that very disheartening in trying to look forward.

amicus...

 

[impressive]

Oh, wow. What a delightfully perverted thread.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

Oh, wow. What a delightfully perverted thread.

For sure and full of practical solutions as well. Someone needs to just send Wishful a bucket.

 

[SeaCat]

[/I]

~~~~

I suppose I will be viewed as picking a fight here and with a 'newbie' no less, but so be it.

We are, my dear, homo sapiens, we don't adapt to droughts or nature in general, we modify it and over come shortages by ingenuity and innovation.

Conservation and rationing are a 'pussified' passive, reactive stance that I personally find repulsive.

Drill another damned well and tap the water table. Dam a river and create a reservoir, build a nuclear plant and desalinate the ocean if nearby, collect and store rainwater and snowmelt, dozens of 'proactive' ways to manage the environment to satisfy the needs of man.

But then, you most likely don't have a clue.

Nevermind...


amicus...

Interesting thoughts my dear Ami. Interesting indeed.

I lived for more than a couple of years in a place that was dealing with a water shortage. It's aquifer had been depleted to the point that salt water was encroaching so digging a new well just wouldn't help. This place, Cape Cod, is now looking at importing water from other areas.

Where I live now, Southern Florida, is facing the same problem. When the aquifer is low drilling or digging another well is not an option.

Yes we could build a desalination plant, that is one of the options being looked at. However one plant just wouldn't cut it for the entire state, or even a large proportion of it. (Desalinisation Plants just aren't that efficent, although the science behind them is advancing.)

Now as for the rest of your comments. Making or putting into place Cistern to capture rain water is a form of water conservation, which you claim is pussy like activity. (Well I guess that means I'm a pussy huh?)

Capturing snowmelt is also a form of conservation. Hmmmm do you do this my friend? I'm interested to hear how you conserve water. Oh wait a minute, I guess you don't conserve water as that is a pussified activity and you could never be claimed to be a pussy.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

We're in a drought and then some - level 5 water restrictions. Spot cleaning cars, 4 min showers etc.

Anyone got some water saving ideas?

I just saw one on the TV where they said put a bucket under your shower head to collect the water until it warms up.

Okay there are a lot of things you can do to sav water that not only work but aren't expensive.

Get a shower head that aerates the water and can be shut off at the shower head. This actually saves a considerable amount of water. (I use one myself. You step into the shower and get wet. Turn off the shower head and lather up. Turn on the water and rinse off.)

Get a low volumn toilet. They use less water to flush. (You can also limit the amount of water your toilet uses by placing a couple of bricks in the tank.)

Wash your dishes in a basin. Most dish soaps don't need to be rinsed. Use the water in the basin to do your watering.

If you own your own place you can change your drains so the water from the sinks and showers don't go into the septic system but in the lawn. If you do this make sure to use biodegradable soaps and shampoos.

Gutters and downspouts can be drained into cisterns. (Plastic tanks of one kind or another.) This water can be used to water your lawn or if you really want to be conservative you can pipe it in and use it to flush your toilets.

Cat

 

[starrkers]

Depending on how dire the situation is, you can also reuse water in the washing machine.
Collect the rinse water in buckets and use it as the wash water on the next load.

 

[R. Richard]

If you are not too busy insuting each other, you might peruse this link:

http://www.santeelakes.com/PDF/History_Santee_Lakes.pdf

In brief, the City of Santee [Near San Diego] was being handed shit, well sewage actually. Suddenly the State of California said, "Don't hand me none of that shit!" Santee had the shit and no one to hand it to. Thus, a man named Ray Stoyer created a solution. He improvised a home built sewage treatement facility and directed the resulting treated water in the Santee Lakes. The water in the Santee Lakes is clean enough to support fish and water birds, although humans are not allowed to swim or wade. The water is eminently suited for irrigation.

If you don't just throw water away after you use it, you find you have a lot more water than you thought.

 

[amicus]

Interesting thoughts my dear Ami. Interesting indeed.

I lived for more than a couple of years in a place that was dealing with a water shortage. It's aquifer had been depleted to the point that salt water was encroaching so digging a new well just wouldn't help. This place, Cape Cod, is now looking at importing water from other areas.

Where I live now, Southern Florida, is facing the same problem. When the aquifer is low drilling or digging another well is not an option.

Yes we could build a desalination plant, that is one of the options being looked at. However one plant just wouldn't cut it for the entire state, or even a large proportion of it. (Desalinisation Plants just aren't that efficent, although the science behind them is advancing.)

Now as for the rest of your comments. Making or putting into place Cistern to capture rain water is a form of water conservation, which you claim is pussy like activity. (Well I guess that means I'm a pussy huh?)

Capturing snowmelt is also a form of conservation. Hmmmm do you do this my friend? I'm interested to hear how you conserve water. Oh wait a minute, I guess you don't conserve water as that is a pussified activity and you could never be claimed to be a pussy.

Cat

~~~

Unless you are really dense and do not understand my metaphor of the passive weak female(nature determined) to the aggressive male(stronger and bigger, also nature determined), then you are just being argumentative.

To be 'conservative' in the expenditure of one's assets is prudent.

But I address a mindset that was born in the 60's generation that is much too complex to illustrate in a post but one of which you and your ilk are well aware.

We are poles apart in world views and I cannot change that.

I fully understand your world view and do not usually even engage your collectivist mentality as it it useless to try to make you realize that your are indeed an unique individual and not just an ant.

You, on the other hand, have no clue and no interest in understanding my point of view.

You may not realize it, but that places you at a distinct disadvantage, as to know one's enemies, is a primary value in a conflict.

And there really is a conflict here.

amicus....

 

[carsonshepherd]

Yes, my question was sincere. I'm not out to insult anyone, I was curious about your viewpoint. I'm not an expert either.

by initial response is to heed those who do know about such things, the oil and natural gas industry.

Anyone cognizant of the entire range of parameters, will include, hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, alternative and thermal energy sources and those who can rationally observe the possibilities without political bias or ideology at least have some idea of that which is possible and that which is not in terms of supplying the increasing demand for energy.

You have a conflict here in these two statements. The oil and natural gas industry has been suppressing research and development of alternative forms of energy. Their powerful money lobby makes our politicians into tools for their interests (and let us not forget that President Bush's family's money comes from oil.)

My approach is quite simple. Let those who are most able make the decisions. Take the decisions away from political bodies and pressure groups, allow the industry to solve the matter.

Do you really think the industry will decide on their own, without political bodies and pressure groups, to make less money?

The real difficulty is not one of deciding which energy source to tap, but rather a political and sociological dilemma where conflicting interests have delayed progress and planning and restricted progress in meeting future demands for energy.

Exactly, and you've contradicted yourself by saying this.

While adaptability is an asset to animals, it is not the defining characteristic concerning the progress of man. I am concerned about the 'hunker down' attitude of many I find expressing thoughts here, conservation, cutting back, going stagnant, reverting to earlier times. I find that very disheartening in trying to look forward.

Man is an animal. Adaptation to our enviroment is one of the factors that have made us the dominant animal. The other factor is, as you say, the bending and shaping of our enviroment. With energy conservation, as you say above, it is mostly the energy industry that makes and implements the decisions. The rest of us can only "hunker down" and conserve until a solution becomes available or our resources completely run out.

 

[oggbashan]

Okay there are a lot of things you can do to sav water that not only work but aren't expensive.

Get a shower head that aerates the water and can be shut off at the shower head. This actually saves a considerable amount of water. (I use one myself. You step into the shower and get wet. Turn off the shower head and lather up. Turn on the water and rinse off.)

Get a low volumn toilet. They use less water to flush. (You can also limit the amount of water your toilet uses by placing a couple of bricks in the tank.)

Wash your dishes in a basin. Most dish soaps don't need to be rinsed. Use the water in the basin to do your watering.

If you own your own place you can change your drains so the water from the sinks and showers don't go into the septic system but in the lawn. If you do this make sure to use biodegradable soaps and shampoos.

Gutters and downspouts can be drained into cisterns. (Plastic tanks of one kind or another.) This water can be used to water your lawn or if you really want to be conservative you can pipe it in and use it to flush your toilets.

Cat

All the above is sensible advice. I would add:

1. Make sure that there are no dripping taps. A drip wastes a lot of water in one day.

2. Use a tooth glass when cleaning your teeth instead of running water while you brush.

3. Consider modifying the hot water system so that the run from tank to tap is short. Waiting for the water to run hot wastes gallons.

4. When collecting water from gutters and downpipes into cisterns, make sure that the cisterns are fitted with taps and mounted high enough so that you can put a bucket under the taps. If at least one cistern is mounted with its base six feet above ground, a hose can be connected to move the water elsewhere.

5. If you have a hard surfaced drive, consider a gutter at one end that runs rain water into an underground cistern.

6. Cover and shade all cisterns to reduce evaporation. If you are in an area that has waterborne pests such as mosquitoes or gnats, put a couple of drops of light oil on the water surface inside the cistern. The thin film of oil suffocates the larvae, and because you draw water from the bottom tap, shouldn't affect the water's use.

7. Think about which plants are in your garden and how much water they need. Trees are heavy users of water and in drought conditions their roots can damage nearby buildings. Some trees are worse than others. Some Australian eucalyptuses will survive almost any drought conditions, and even forest fires. Choose carefully. My father planted the wrong sort for his garden. In ten years it grew to a height of 30 metres with a very thin trunk. He had a quotation of two hundred pounds from a tree surgeon to remove it. That week it blew down in a storm and stacked itself neatly.

Og

 

[Vermilion]

3. Consider modifying the hot water system so that the run from tank to tap is short. Waiting for the water to run hot wastes gallons.

An easier alternative might be to collect the water in a bucket or bowl until it runs hot, then use it for watering the garden or rinsing the washing up.


x
V

 

[SeaCat]

~~~

Unless you are really dense and do not understand my metaphor of the passive weak female(nature determined) to the aggressive male(stronger and bigger, also nature determined), then you are just being argumentative.

To be 'conservative' in the expenditure of one's assets is prudent.

But I address a mindset that was born in the 60's generation that is much too complex to illustrate in a post but one of which you and your ilk are well aware.

We are poles apart in world views and I cannot change that.

I fully understand your world view and do not usually even engage your collectivist mentality as it it useless to try to make you realize that your are indeed an unique individual and not just an ant.

You, on the other hand, have no clue and no interest in understanding my point of view.

You may not realize it, but that places you at a distinct disadvantage, as to know one's enemies, is a primary value in a conflict.

And there really is a conflict here.

amicus....

Amicus,

An Ilk? Isn't that a sick Elk?

You do realise that this is the fist time I have been called an Ant? It moves me to wonder at how I resemble an ant in your mind. It can't be the physical appearance as I seem to be lacking in legs, as well as a chitinous exoskeleton. That leads me to believe that you mean this comment to illustrate that I am either small and inignificant in the world, or that I am of a hive mindset. Both of which are amusing.

As for the midset thing. Yes I do know the difference in our worldviews of which you speak. I understand it better than you expect, I too study people. It may amaze you that even though there are differences in upbringing between our generations many of us do think the same way. You see even though some of us were born in the sixties, and were perhaps tainted with the ideas of personal freedoms, many of us did grow up poor and working clas. We too know the values of work and thrift and sacrifice.

We could bring up the differences in the conditions the two generations rew up under and how they effected these generations. We could debate the differences and similarities in mindsets, and it would show how the two generations are much closer than you imagine they are.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

An easier alternative might be to collect the water in a bucket or bowl until it runs hot, then use it for watering the garden or rinsing the washing up.


x
V

Another alternative is the new on demand hot water heaters. They heat the water as it moves through the pipes negating the need for a holding tank. They can also be placed anywhere you have the room for them.

Cat

 

[amicus]

"...An Ilk? Isn't that a sick Elk?..."

That would be a "Roosevelt Ilk" Seacat.

chuckles...


ami...

 

[kendo1]

8. Move to Scotland.

 

[SeaCat]

"...An Ilk? Isn't that a sick Elk?..."

That would be a "Roosevelt Ilk" Seacat.

chuckles...


ami...

*Snicker*

Touche Ami.

Cat

 

[wishfulthinking]

Who knew water would get people so fired up?

No need for Amicus to think he has upset me. I'm logged back in under wishful now [yay!], and my ignore list is working

Ogg and Seacat have given some really good suggestions. Amicus's way of thinking is in the past - been there, screwed up the environment, done that.

The long term political solutions [it is election year] - desalinisation, recycling sewerage water for drinking water - seems they aren't going to be up and running in time before the city runs dry if they can decide on what they are going to do.