Sanity and Politeness

[GrimsPet]

I joined this forum back in May. Since then I have encountered numerous threads where one or more people decide to jump in and flambe the OP or get into wars with each other about differing opinions/sexual preferences/kinks/mindsets etc.

Now last I checked we were all supposed to be adults around here. Being an adult means that you discuss something civilly without getting nasty, without being a moron, and without being disruptive of those who come here to learn new things and gather information.

I learned long ago to walk away from a thread on any forum when someone started to act like a nutjob. Life is to short to deal with people who need to be rude on forums. Rudeness is a waste of pixels and bandwidth.

There is an old saying that still holds true, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it." It's OK to disagree with someone but do so respectfully. It's OK to not like someone's kink, but be respectable about it. So you don't like that person A likes to stick their clit in person B's ear? Fine, be nice about it.

If you find a posting where the OP or another poster is trolling, instead of getting your panties in an uproar and posting something that makes you look as immature as the troll, report the posting instead. That is what moderators are for.

I moderate and help admin on a forum devoted to Bonsai. It took a bit but I finally got the members to understand that you can catch more bees with honey than with fire. I drilled the concept of the report button into their heads and it worked! Report buttons really are amazing wonderful things. It allows a moderator to deal with a thread before it gets to bad. By hitting the report button instead of posting something to feed the problem you have saved work for the moderator and you have also made yourself look better for not getting caught up in the foray!

OK so you don't like a certain poster on here. Hey we're all entitled to not like someone. This is what the ignore function is for. Use it. It makes it a lot easier to dismiss the actions of trolls or rude posters when you ignore their posts.

OK I am going to step down off my soapbox now. I'm just going to ask one favor...

Can we all please TRY to get along and discuss topics in a civilized manner?

 

[Stella_Omega]

In the middle of the hottest summer on record, the year before the ugliest political fight in history, on the verge of the worst economic breakdown in centuries?

I think we're doing pretty well, actually. Life is pretty scary out there.

Sadly, the report button does nothing. Etoile has no authority to remove anyone for bad manners. Bad manners around here is covered by "free speech" at least as laurel interprets free speech, and she's the owner.

Hitting the button will inundate her cell phone with text messages that she can't do anything about.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't really care one way or the other, but some people might think it's rude for a person who's only been here for two months to waltz in and tell everyone how to post. Also, Lit calls itself a free speech board, so just because a poster or posters report a thread for suspected "trolling" doesn't mean the moderators are going to "deal with" it. I'm rather a fan of the hands-off method the mods here use, personally.

Different people look at things differently. I'm neither sane nor polite, but I've been here for so long that I've seen this stuff wax and wane more than once.

 

[HottieMama]

I'm neither sane nor polite, but I've been here for so long that I've seen this stuff wax and wane more than once.

Me too. I am also a big fan of calling someone on their bullshit. If that makes me rude, so be it...

 

[CutieMouse]

Yes, it would be more civilized to simply ignore certain things, but if we always ignored certain things the BDSM Talk/Cafe forums would be even slower than they currently are.

Plus, sometimes people wander into the forum with wood, matches, marshmallows, etc and actually earn their trial by fire badge. If someone is going to put that much effort into it, who am I to deny them? LOL

 

[GrimsPet]

Free Speech is a great thing. It allows us to disagree with politicians and not land in jail. It allows us to tell the government we don't agree with something they are doing. It allows us to post and read a variety of subjects that are banned in other parts of the world.

Free Speech however does not mean we have the infallible right to be lousy to fellow human beings. Somewhere along the timeline that is history someone apparently decided free speech meant that you could insult anyone you wanted and it was somehow "Alright because it's free speech." Rudeness is rudeness whether it's under the guise of "free speech" or not.

I belong to two other forums that support free speech, both are not kink related. I can count on one hand in five years the number of flame wars I've seen on those forums because someone decided they had to be obnoxious and rude. And in all cases when it got to a certain point, someone stepped in and either locked the thread or told folks to knock it off or take it elsewhere.

I think the Moderators here do a fine job and I'm not knocking them in the least. They do what I do - sit back and let everyone do their thing and interject when things get to a point where they need to do something. That's exactly how it is where I moderate/Admin.

 

[BiBunny]

Free speech doesn't just extend to the people who are saying what you want to hear, though. Free speech means someone is free to say whatever fucked up thing they want to say, and you're free to tell them what an asshole they are for it.

Again, the mods here don't lock threads or tell people to knock it off because someone's got their panties in a wad.

 

[M1ch3ll3o0o]

When I was reading about "Muches," someone wrote that many people in this culture are extremely opinionated. Especially since subs (apparently) are ofen people with strong opinions in everyday life that seek balance by being dominated in the bedroom. Advice was given to "mind the fire" when hot topics arise because people can get as into the subject as much as they get into a scene!

I'm not sure how much stock I put in all of that, but it seems to make sense. I completely agree with you, though, adults should be able to discuss topics without bad mouthing eachother. I'm only 21 but I'm still able to cover ANY topic without berating, insulting, or subtly antagonizing another person...I would expect those older than me to be able to have the same kind of self control.

Also, I think its terrible to suggest that Lit has a "hierarchy" when it comes to posting. I've just recently joined and I feel comfortable enough posting a response or starting a thread on any topic....I would hate to find that I'm misinformed and that I may be scolded for stepping out of my place on an online forum.

 

[GrimsPet]

I completely agree with you, though, adults should be able to discuss topics without bad mouthing eachother. I'm only 21 but I'm still able to cover ANY topic without berating, insulting, or subtly antagonizing another person...I would expect those older than me to be able to have the same kind of self control.

Also, I think its terrible to suggest that Lit has a "hierarchy" when it comes to posting. I've just recently joined and I feel comfortable enough posting a response or starting a thread on any topic....I would hate to find that I'm misinformed and that I may be scolded for stepping out of my place on an online forum.

Thank you.

I expected to get lambasted verbally by people for posting this thread. I figured it would happen. I'm not surprised either at the responses. I've always firmly believed everyone was entitled to their own opinion, however they should also show respect for the opinions of others.

As for a posted hierarchy - I find on many forums that some people think having oodles of posts makes them somehow better than others with less posts who have been around less amounts of time. When it comes to posting I believe in quality, not quantity.

********
Some food for thought here: When you go to a grocery store and buy groceries and the cashier wishes you a "nice day." Do you then look at them and say "fuck off," because it's is free speech? Probably not, because I would hope that in every day life people would use the manners that apparently are lacking when they post online.

 

[HottieMama]

Also, I think its terrible to suggest that Lit has a "hierarchy" when it comes to posting. I've just recently joined and I feel comfortable enough posting a response or starting a thread on any topic....I would hate to find that I'm misinformed and that I may be scolded for stepping out of my place on an online forum.

Terrible or not, it is true. The BDSM forums though, are the ones it is least evident on IMO. Go take a look around some of the other forums and you will see what I am talking about.

 

[M1ch3ll3o0o]

well, I may only have a little over 15 posts....but I would hope that my words and opinions are taken as seriously as someone with over 5,000. If not....then what is the point of posting at all?

 

[HottieMama]

well, I may only have a little over 15 posts....but I would hope that my words and opinions are taken as seriously as someone with over 5,000. If not....then what is the point of posting at all?

I'm not saying they aren't. What I am saying is that new people seem to be given a bit less leeway than well-established members. Then again, it's like that in any group or microcosm of society.

 

[M1ch3ll3o0o]

ahhh this is very true! Ofcourse, I take the words of a more experienced member as just that, more experienced

 

[Stella_Omega]

Free Speech is a great thing. It allows us to disagree with politicians and not land in jail. It allows us to tell the government we don't agree with something they are doing. It allows us to post and read a variety of subjects that are banned in other parts of the world.

Free Speech however does not mean we have the infallible right to be lousy to fellow human beings. Somewhere along the timeline that is history someone apparently decided free speech meant that you could insult anyone you wanted and it was somehow "Alright because it's free speech." Rudeness is rudeness whether it's under the guise of "free speech" or not.

You can have this discussion with Laurel.

I have, at least once a year by PM.

If there were any application of a standard of politeness, people would not be so on their guard and ready to fight.

I belong to two other forums that support free speech, both are not kink related. I can count on one hand in five years the number of flame wars I've seen on those forums because someone decided they had to be obnoxious and rude. And in all cases when it got to a certain point, someone stepped in and either locked the thread or told folks to knock it off or take it elsewhere.

I think the Moderators here do a fine job and I'm not knocking them in the least. They do what I do - sit back and let everyone do their thing and interject when things get to a point where they need to do something. That's exactly how it is where I moderate/Admin.

They have no choice. The owners of this site do not give the moderators that authority. They do not have the ability to lock a thread down, the only thing they can do is move personals to the personals forum, vanilla threads to whichever forum seems most appropriate.

have you ever taken a look at the general board? A site owner that would condone that-- Well.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Terrible or not, it is true. The BDSM forums though, are the ones it is least evident on IMO. Go take a look around some of the other forums and you will see what I am talking about.

Oh yes. We have our moments, and can be somewhat insular, but if you want to see incivility and mopping up blood and teeth, stroll down Lit Avenue a few blocks and hang out in another "forum."

LilyPru nailed it the other day.

I have a friend who has posted on the GB for many years. Once, I made some typically naive and self-righteous comment about trolls and flame wars, and she said, "That's because you hang out in the BDSM boards, where everyone is nicey nice.". . This board is pink cotton candy unicorns and jelly bean puppies.

I'm all for civility, and encouraging same, because it greases the wheels of human interaction. But don't mandate it, unless there are threats or real harrassment. Because your opinions could be deemed the asshole opinions of tomorrow. Lenny Bruce said, "Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government."" I recommend exercising the right not to click on a thread, or to use the magic iggy button.

 

[Kurokami]

have you ever taken a look at the general board? A site owner that would condone that-- Well.

I had a look at the general board once. Then I fled from it, very fast. It was like turning a corner and suddenly finding myself in front of a set of stairs that led into the sewer. That's just a blanket statement, though; I'm sure there are some human beings down there, but after seeing a thread demanding that we out any Jews that may be frequenting the board (at least, I think I saw that. But I'm not going to discount the possibility that it was a terrifying fever dream) I certainly don't want to go and look.

In regards to the OP, I would direct you to look at my post count. I feel it should be higher, given my six months here, but it isn't, merely because I refuse to post in any thread where I feel I can't add something of value. Generally I like the... Let's call it passion that sometimes gets stirred up around here, it's entertaining but often not conducive to interesting discussion. Frankly, I'd prefer to lose the occasional giggle the arguments provide in favor of a little urbanity, sure. But that's something that needs to be handled individually; you can't force politeness, unfortunately. Humans will find a way around it.

 

[Etoile]

I expected to get lambasted verbally by people for posting this thread. I figured it would happen. I'm not surprised either at the responses. I've always firmly believed everyone was entitled to their own opinion, however they should also show respect for the opinions of others.

I think this speaks volumes about your feelings about this board. If you consider the responses you've received lambasting and disrespectful, then perhaps Lit isn't the place for you. I say this because these are some of the most respectful, cogently arguing, and intelligent people Lit has. If you don't like what the best of Lit has to say, how will you like the rest? Like Kurokami says, the GB is a sewer, and many of its participants are happy to have it that way. I take pride in saying that BDSM Talk is one of the finest sections of Literotica's forums. If the responses you get here make you grouchy, maybe you would do better to find a more closely moderated forum whose values are more in line with your own.

Alternatively, if you like Lit and you want to stay, I hope you will make use of the Ignore feature which - while not perfect - will do a fair bit at improving your Lit experience. Nobody can make you stay, and nobody can make you leave. Do what feels best for you.

 

[Etoile]

The owners of this site do not give the moderators that authority. They do not have the ability to lock a thread down, the only thing they can do is move personals to the personals forum, vanilla threads to whichever forum seems most appropriate.

Actually, we do have the ability to lock threads. We just don't, because there's no reason to, because nothing happens that would cause a thread to be locked. If threads violate the existing rules, they get chucked to the Mod Queue and the admins delete them. There are no rules that would allow for a thread to stay on the board without being posted to, so we just don't lock them. We do have the technical ability to, however.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Actually, we do have the ability to lock threads. We just don't, because there's no reason to, because nothing happens that would cause a thread to be locked. If threads violate the existing rules, they get chucked to the Mod Queue and the admins delete them. There are no rules that would allow for a thread to stay on the board without being posted to, so we just don't lock them. We do have the technical ability to, however.

I had no idea, thanks for the info

 

[CaresseDArcy]

Warning and apology for length

This was an interesting post to find on Lit tonight since I just had a similar conversation today about sanity and politeness in my daily life. I joined this forum over a year ago now, although that won’t be reflected in the amount of posts I’ve made lol. Of course depending on one’s definition, it also likely won’t be reflected in the “quality” of the posts either for that matter.

However, like you mentioned Grim’sPet, I come here to learn more, to gather information and hopefully to gain some more insight into myself but I also and perhaps even more so, come here to find some downtime amongst people that I know won’t judge the parts of me that get judged or would be judged everyday in my daily life. Pretty much the only way to get to know people in this type of forum is through their postings and while I have come to enjoy many of the people here through that and value the insights and knowledge they have given me… they, by my limited postings, won’t get to know me in that same manner, at least not as quickly I have also learned from those same postings the opinions I will ignore, the antagonists and those who don’t further my reason for coming here. If not for their open rudeness and lack of sanity how would I garner that insight

I have noticed the ‘hierarchy’ at times and I have seen references made to it before on occasion but I also don’t feel like I can’t post or start a thread for fear of the repercussions or that my thoughts are somehow less than someone else's. I read and follow several of the threads here and there are times I want to post and participate in many of them but honestly, for me… I just don’t feel like I have the time to get into the more serious topics. I work full time, I attend college part time and I have two kids. So while I could likely find the time somewhere in the wee hours to post my thoughts on the threads I would like to, it might be days before I get back to it and even then I may not have time to respond in a way I felt was properly. Now, that being said, I can understand sometimes why others might not feel they can or be nervous about posting for the very reasons that have come up in this thread.

I don’t think it can be denied that there are instances where things get heated, people get flamed and rudeness and lack of respect abounds. I agree it isn’t necessary and I definitely think there are times when it interferes with a topic that has valuable and insightful information in it. It makes it hard to read when it goes too far because then you have to begin sorting through what is useful and what is just a ‘waste of pixels’.

There is a difference between rudeness and free speech but unfortunately rudeness is in general hard to moderate. Knowing at what point a line is crossed and when enough is enough can become so subjective. It is very hard especially when the topics in this forum often touch on things people feel passionately about or that hit a nerve. Also, things don’t always translate well in text, like sarcasm . The only real moderation is self-moderation and why would that prove to be more effective in an online forum then it is in our daily lives?

Most people are not very passionate about whether the store clerk says have a nice day but talk about how they are made to feel in someway, anyway, less in society just because of their sexuality… and boy howdy! No it doesn’t call for rudeness, especially since it takes more thought to type then it takes to speak but when subjects are close to one’s sense of self… it becomes more understandable. A lot of us are constantly faced with rudeness in our day-to-day life and I, much like others I imagine, don’t wish to encounter it in the place I come to where I don’t feel like I have to worry so much about judgment. However, maybe it’s when that constant bombardment invades what feels like someone’s one safe place that the claws more readily come out.

The example using the grocery store made me smile because at least there is anonymity in online forums, which embolden most of the rudeness that is found here. The situation that came up in my daily life today that brought up this very topic was this. I was in line behind a woman with her son and he is buying a toy and asks the checkout clerk for his own bag, separate from mom’s. She smiles and says sure I will give you a small one just for you. Hands him the bag and he took it and proceeded to put his toy inside. The clerk says… you’re welcome. To which the mother tells the clerk… he doesn’t have to say thank you, it’s your job.

So many things in that one interaction was it rude that the child didn’t say thank you after she gave him the bag? Was it rude of the clerk to point it out? Was the mother’s response rude? I would say perhaps, yes and yes but I would wager not everyone would agree with me. The child asked for the bag politely and sure he forgot to say thank you but he wasn’t being a snot so how big of a deal was it really? The clerk didn’t say you’re welcome in a nasty way but was it rude anyway? The mother was rude in response but was it justified when her child (who seemed well behaved and reasonably polite especially given some I’ve seen) she perceived to be ‘under attack’. Where should the moderation have started in that situation? What I really wonder is what lesson did the child take away from this interaction?

I try not to be rude in my daily life or on this or any forum, even when my panties have gotten twisted, which yes has happened on occasion on here lol I believe most people try to do the same but I see nothing wrong with pointing it out when they aren’t… especially if You’ve a dog in the fight and no referee. Plus, who hasn't occasionally smiled a little at a tiny troll roast when it's deserved.

*face palm* So sorry this got so long but hopefully it at least makes sense, 1 a.m. is still pretty early and I am too tired to go back and edit it down Hmmm see how wise it is that I stay in the ‘leisure threads’ Lol

 

[Etoile]

The situation that came up in my daily life today that brought up this very topic was this. I was in line behind a woman with her son and he is buying a toy and asks the checkout clerk for his own bag, separate from mom’s. She smiles and says sure I will give you a small one just for you. Hands him the bag and he took it and proceeded to put his toy inside. The clerk says… you’re welcome. To which the mother tells the clerk… he doesn’t have to say thank you, it’s your job.

So many things in that one interaction was it rude that the child didn’t say thank you after she gave him the bag? Was it rude of the clerk to point it out? Was the mother’s response rude? I would say perhaps, yes and yes but I would wager not everyone would agree with me. The child asked for the bag politely and sure he forgot to say thank you but he wasn’t being a snot so how big of a deal was it really? The clerk didn’t say you’re welcome in a nasty way but was it rude anyway? The mother was rude in response but was it justified when her child (who seemed well behaved and reasonably polite especially given some I’ve seen) she perceived to be ‘under attack’. Where should the moderation have started in that situation? What I really wonder is what lesson did the child take away from this interaction?

Interesting, I had a conversation with a friend lately along similar lines. He said in the past, it was the clerk's job to say thank you, ie thanks for coming to our store. The customer didn't say it, because there was nothing to thank the clerk for, they were just doing their job. Now the customer does say it - for getting change, being helped with a product, etc. My friend wasn't saying we shouldn't say it, only that it was a change from the past.

In your case, I would say that the clerk could have been seen as taking the parent's role - it's usually the parent who says "What do you say?" to prompt the child for a thank you. So perhaps it was inappropriate for that reason. But the mother was definitely inappropriate in her response. It's always appropriate to thank someone who has helped you. I bet that mom is a bad tipper too.

 

[CaresseDArcy]

@ Etoile... Now that was an interesting tid bit of information, I had no idea there was a time that wasn't a norm so to speak.

I agree with your take on it and this

I bet that mom is a bad tipper too.

just made me giggle outright, I bet so too. I really think the kid was just sidetracked with his new toy, not intentionally being rude and the rest was adults making more of something than needed to be. Imagine that

 

[LilyPru]

My personal mantra on Lit is "more orgasms, less bile"... if I want to have an annoying fight about semantics or politics, I'll just call my dad. HOWEVER, I am glad that not everyone has that approach here, cause then Lit would be pretty boring (...or really sexy, maybe? Hm.)

I think that if you want to really get into it with people then you should. If you don't, then just don't engage. If someone says something to you that you deem rude, those two choices are still available to you.

Anyway... I'm going back to looking for smut. My brain is all kinds of worn out now!

 

[Grimfalcon]

Not really sure what to say about this thread, and if the OP was anyone else, I would simply ignore it like any other pointless act of ranting with back and forth arguments of opinion that pop up from time to time. For all the good these kinds of discussion do in regards to the people they’re targeted at, you might as well be barking at the moon.

This forum, or any other for that matter, is really nothing more then a microcosm of our society in general, playing itself out through the safety and ambiguousness of a computer monitor. Freedom of speech, in this day and age, apparently means you can say whatever you want without taking in consideration common decency and simple manners. I guess that’s the legacy of the spolied, self-centered, and liberal ‘Me’ generation.

The difference in this case, is the person making those rude and uncalled for comments really has nothing to fear as far as repercussions, other then receiving some sort of snide comment in return, which is probably what they’re looking for anyway. You say some of the things that I’ve seen at numerous points on this forum face to face with another person, and someone isn’t walking away from it, at least under their own power. It’s amazing how brave people can be when they don't have to worry about having their teeth knocked down their throat for being a smart mouthed, little prick.

I’ve always believed in treating people the way I would like to be treated because I was raised with a sense of common courtesy that seem to be growing less as of late, regardless of the circumstances, or whether I agree with them or not. If I don’t like what they have to say, I don’t listen. In this instance, say if it’s a sexual fetish or topic I find distasteful or offensive, I won’t visit the thread or comment on it.

One of the things I’ve noticed though, and what the OP might be getting at, is there are the pathetic examples of humanity called trolls that specifically target a particular fetish or idea, leaving a bullshit comment to the effect, while trying to incite an argument for nothing else better to do, or prove to themselves that their opinion actually matters to the world.
Childish and ignorant in my opinion, and they can get way with pointless bantering or insulting other people and their beliefs, without fear of repercussion, because we let them.
Freedom of speech my ass… A lot of the people that cry about their constitutional rights being violated all the time haven’t done a damn thing to support them, other from then from the saftey of thier own self-centered existance, but they sure as hell will be the first ones to try and reap the benefits of what others have fought and bled to uphold over the years.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I like the way this place is moderated.

Free speech does include the right to be rude and to say things most people would disagree with. If it was just the right to say nice things and get along it woudn't be worth anything at all.

What you can do is ignore posts that you find offensive, either by button or will, get into a fight about it or you can continue taking part in the discussion in a way you find more appropriate.