SAMMY Subs

[quietwillow]

Dom/mes do You like submissives to be a little sammy? How sammy can they be without crossing the line?

For newbies, sam stands for smart ass masochist. Some see sammy subs as being rude while others like a little spunk in a sub.

Is saminess a sign of disrespect or is it just a part of being a submissive at times?

For me sammy is ok as long as I am teasing Master and we are just having fun. I have learned though that being sammy at inappropriate times can bring on punishment.

Your thoughts?

quiet

 

[lovetoread]

For a moment I thought you were talking about my son.

Heh...I am not one so I cannot answer.

 

[Rubyfruit]

Quiet, it isn't my thing, but others obviously like it.

Both giving and receiving.

 

[MzChrista]

Dom/mes do You like submissives to be a little sammy? How sammy can they be without crossing the line?

For newbies, sam stands for smart ass masochist. Some see sammy subs as being rude while others like a little spunk in a sub.

Is saminess a sign of disrespect or is it just a part of being a submissive at times?

For me sammy is ok as long as I am teasing Master and we are just having fun. I have learned though that being sammy at inappropriate times can bring on punishment.

Your thoughts?

quiet

Well aint nothing wrong with playing around and it can be fun to have a sub be a little bit teasing. But the line of whos in charge cant get crossed. A SAM who maybe say sticks her tongue out at me to get a spanking is fun, one who talks shit to me is not. Problem is, they aint always gonna know the difference.
But thats OK, I got canes for that.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Kidding is ok, humor is ok

but provoking me is never ok. I do not care for SAMs.

Eb

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Kidding is ok, humor is ok

but provoking me is never ok. I do not care for SAMs.

Eb

DITTO

 

[WillowPuss]

Dom/mes do You like submissives to be a little sammy? How sammy can they be without crossing the line?

For newbies, sam stands for smart ass masochist. Some see sammy subs as being rude while others like a little spunk in a sub.

Is saminess a sign of disrespect or is it just a part of being a submissive at times?

For me sammy is ok as long as I am teasing Master and we are just having fun. I have learned though that being sammy at inappropriate times can bring on punishment.

Your thoughts?

quiet

quiet ... I am not a sammy.

I do like to share a joke, we both like to have fun ... but me? A sam ... I think Master would either die laughing or die of shock.
I just haven't got it in me.

 

[Desdemona]

Re: Re: SAMMY Subs

quiet ... I am not a sammy.

I do like to share a joke, we both like to have fun ... but me? A sam ... I think Master would either die laughing or die of shock.
I just haven't got it in me.

Willow, again we have much in common. I don't have it in me to do that, either. I have been known to flirt and tease online in that manner but it is something I would not do in real life. It just isn't respectful. There are other ways to laugh together.

 

[quietwillow]

Willow

My Master would die laughing too LOL I often take things so seriously He has to tell me to lighten up ...and even though I may have fun in private with Master I have deep respect for the community and all it stands for and never am a sammy when we are in public or online. It does not mean I cannot have fun though

quiet

 

[Hecate]

I repeatedly see here that being a SAM sub is set equal with a bratty sub = a teasing sub = a playful sub = a challenging sub.

I do not mind playfullness, or gentle teasing at the right time. A SAM though for me implies a different flavor.

SAM as in Smart Ass Masochis is not behaving in a teasing manner (in my book anyway) but in a selfish way to reach his/her personal end which is a usually physical punishment. SAM's do push limits not to test a Dominant or to tease, but to decidedly push OVER the established and well known limits set and agreed between the parties involved to force the Dominant into a sadist reaction that usually would not occur. This is a violation of the D/s principle as much as it would be for a Dominant to constantly consciously override set limits towards the submissive.

SAM behaviour to me indicates a lack of self-assessment and communication in the first place - you are a strong masochist? then don't hook up with me since my sadist tendencies are medium at best! And nothing you may come up with will change that - so if the realization hits home that a particular Dominant can't fulfill a particular submissives desires after discussing it openly, it is time to move on!

So NO! no SAM's for me - I play an open hand so to speak, and SAM's are not what I am after. I do not liked being tricked into sadism, I do not like being challenged for the wrong reasons. If my submissive isn't getting enough s/m then the issue has to be addressed and cleared - not onesidedly but consensual in full awareness of what the discussion is about.

Teasing is cute at times, challenging and reassessing is good at times. Try and trick me into anything sadistic (which is what SAM's are about imo) and punishment will follow - once, and it will be waaaayyyy off of what may have been intended as response. Try it twice and you will not be around long enough to find out about my reaction.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I repeatedly see here that being a SAM sub is set equal with a bratty sub = a teasing sub = a playful sub = a challenging sub.

I do not mind playfullness, or gentle teasing at the right time. A SAM though for me implies a different flavor.

SAM as in Smart Ass Masochis is not behaving in a teasing manner (in my book anyway) but in a selfish way to reach his/her personal end which is a usually physical punishment. SAM's do push limits not to test a Dominant or to tease, but to decidedly push OVER the established and well known limits set and agreed between the parties involved to force the Dominant into a sadist reaction that usually would not occur. This is a violation of the D/s principle as much as it would be for a Dominant to constantly consciously override set limits towards the submissive.

SAM behaviour to me indicates a lack of self-assessment and communication in the first place - you are a strong masochist? then don't hook up with me since my sadist tendencies are medium at best! And nothing you may come up with will change that - so if the realization hits home that a particular Dominant can't fulfill a particular submissives desires after discussing it openly, it is time to move on!

So NO! no SAM's for me - I play an open hand so to speak, and SAM's are not what I am after. I do not liked being tricked into sadism, I do not like being challenged for the wrong reasons. If my submissive isn't getting enough s/m then the issue has to be addressed and cleared - not onesidedly but consensual in full awareness of what the discussion is about.

Teasing is cute at times, challenging and reassessing is good at times. Try and trick me into anything sadistic (which is what SAM's are about imo) and punishment will follow - once, and it will be waaaayyyy off of what may have been intended as response. Try it twice and you will not be around long enough to find out about my reaction.

another DITTO

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: SAMMY Subs

Well aint nothing wrong with playing around and it can be fun to have a sub be a little bit teasing. But the line of whos in charge cant get crossed. A SAM who maybe say sticks her tongue out at me to get a spanking is fun, one who talks shit to me is not. Problem is, they aint always gonna know the difference.
But thats OK, I got canes for that.

_____________________________
I agree with You MzC,nothing at all wrong with "playin around" and if there comes a time when He feels that His Slave does NOT know the "difference" ,I am POSITIVE that my Master would "teach me ' right away..

 

[Ebonyfire]

I repeatedly see here that being a SAM sub is set equal with a bratty sub = a teasing sub = a playful sub = a challenging sub.

I do not mind playfullness, or gentle teasing at the right time. A SAM though for me implies a different flavor.

SAM as in Smart Ass Masochis is not behaving in a teasing manner (in my book anyway) but in a selfish way to reach his/her personal end which is a usually physical punishment. SAM's do push limits not to test a Dominant or to tease, but to decidedly push OVER the established and well known limits set and agreed between the parties involved to force the Dominant into a sadist reaction that usually would not occur. This is a violation of the D/s principle as much as it would be for a Dominant to constantly consciously override set limits towards the submissive.

SAM behaviour to me indicates a lack of self-assessment and communication in the first place - you are a strong masochist? then don't hook up with me since my sadist tendencies are medium at best! And nothing you may come up with will change that - so if the realization hits home that a particular Dominant can't fulfill a particular submissives desires after discussing it openly, it is time to move on!

So NO! no SAM's for me - I play an open hand so to speak, and SAM's are not what I am after. I do not liked being tricked into sadism, I do not like being challenged for the wrong reasons. If my submissive isn't getting enough s/m then the issue has to be addressed and cleared - not onesidedly but consensual in full awareness of what the discussion is about.

Teasing is cute at times, challenging and reassessing is good at times. Try and trick me into anything sadistic (which is what SAM's are about imo) and punishment will follow - once, and it will be waaaayyyy off of what may have been intended as response. Try it twice and you will not be around long enough to find out about my reaction.

A great big DITTO.

Eb

 

[MsWorthy]

I agree, Hecate. In my opinion, there is a vast difference between a SAM and a brat (coquette). A SAM is manipulative and tries to control interactions by being sneaky or misrepresenting the truth, often believing that the end justifies the means. She/he is often a pp (or *do-me*) type and has little interest in what the dom/me wants or needs. This type is not submissive, in my opinion, she is better described as a bottom and wants things *done* to her/him for her/his pleasure exclusively. She/he goes about her/his life with little thought given to the dom/me once the fun is over. This type is not usually interested in a 24/7 PE, and deals with correction, punishment, or discipline with harshness and/or high emotion in an effort to get the dom/me back in line with misdirection. This is truly a Top from the Bottom type, in my opinion.

A coquette (or brat) misbehaves then teases, flirts, and flutters her lashes (or smiles sweetly while she plays with her hair or nibbles a polished fingernail) to assuage her dom/me's anger or irritation. (fyi, I do not like either of these types irl, although a brat is fun the play with online, and I do see a difference in motive between them). A brat also tries to manipulate, but sometimes isn't aware that she is doing it. Often, a brat does have submissive needs, she is simply too afraid of giving up the control that is needed to submit. She is more often fairly powerful in life (perhaps a single mother and/or maintains a position of authority at work) and has won her power (strength) the hard way and has difficulty giving it up. This type can be fun (if this is your type) if you have the patience and do not take yourself too seriously.

It is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between these two in the beginning.

*Stops editorializing now and goes to read the initial post again. Did I miss the question?* LOL

 

[Desdemona]

I understand the difference much better now. Thank you Hecate and MsWorthy.

 

[P. B. Walker]

I repeatedly see here that being a SAM sub is set equal with a bratty sub = a teasing sub = a playful sub = a challenging sub.

Another great post with a wealth of informtion. Thanks Hecate for taking the time... as you can see... we all appreciate your contributions.

PBW "If I'm not learning... I'm stagnating."

 

[subtledecadence]

I repeatedly see here that being a SAM sub is set equal with a bratty sub = a teasing sub = a playful sub = a challenging sub.

I do not mind playfullness, or gentle teasing at the right time. A SAM though for me implies a different flavor.

SAM as in Smart Ass Masochis is not behaving in a teasing manner (in my book anyway) but in a selfish way to reach his/her personal end which is a usually physical punishment. SAM's do push limits not to test a Dominant or to tease, but to decidedly push OVER the established and well known limits set and agreed between the parties involved to force the Dominant into a sadist reaction that usually would not occur. This is a violation of the D/s principle as much as it would be for a Dominant to constantly consciously override set limits towards the submissive.

SAM behaviour to me indicates a lack of self-assessment and communication in the first place - you are a strong masochist? then don't hook up with me since my sadist tendencies are medium at best! And nothing you may come up with will change that - so if the realization hits home that a particular Dominant can't fulfill a particular submissives desires after discussing it openly, it is time to move on!

So NO! no SAM's for me - I play an open hand so to speak, and SAM's are not what I am after. I do not liked being tricked into sadism, I do not like being challenged for the wrong reasons. If my submissive isn't getting enough s/m then the issue has to be addressed and cleared - not onesidedly but consensual in full awareness of what the discussion is about.

As I am a newbie, the term SAMMY was not something I was familiar with. So I am leaning on Hecate's definition here...

While I am a masochist, and a submissive, I do not see how it would ever be beneficial to engineer a Punishment. His disappointment in having to Punish me would far out weigh any satisfaction I would receive from it. I dont believe I would ever be able to "get one over" on Him to begin with. He KNOWS me. KNOWS that I am a masochist. Therefore I do not doubt for one moment (IF I were to become as selfish as to allow my satisfaction to overcome the disappointment I know I would see in His eyes as He looked at me) I would end in receiving a punishment I would not find even the slightest bit enjoyable. That is not even getting into how He would feel if He then found I had "tricked" Him into a punishment, and in doing so showed my obvious lack of respect both for Him, and for O/our relationship.
Instead, I would respectfully broach the subject with Him if ever I felt my needs, as a masochist or otherwise, were not being met. Though I realize the pain and/or pleasure I receive is at His discretion alone, I know also that He will hear with an open mind my own thoughts on the matter and do what He can to remedy the problem, if He feels it is necessary.
Now, on the other hand, being playful, or teasing, maybe even slightly *bratty* (more of a sticking my tongue out at Him for a spanking then the coquettish type) is something He whole heartedly approves of, in the appropriate place and at the appropriate time. ~g~and while I admit to having been definately mouthy at the beginning, swift and extremely un-pleasurable (to say the LEAST) punishment has gone a long way toward showing me the difference between being a brat, and being willfully disrespectful.


subtledecadence

 

[Ebonyfire]

See

Now, on the other hand, being playful, or teasing, maybe even slightly *bratty* (more of a sticking my tongue out at Him for a spanking then the coquettish type) is something He whole heartedly approves of, in the appropriate place and at the appropriate time.

That kind of stuff only works with females, at least IMHO. If one of my subs (male) tried to be cute like that I would grab that tongue with one hand and a hand full of hair with the other and throw his naked ass out the door, and his clothing right behind him.

It just ain't cute to Me.

Eb

 

[subtledecadence]

Re: See

That kind of stuff only works with females, at least IMHO. If one of my subs (male) tried to be cute like that I would grab that tongue with one hand and a hand full of hair with the other and throw his naked ass out the door, and his clothing right behind him.

It just ain't cute to Me.

Eb

~laughs~ Well, I do see Your point! I don't think it really would work all that well for a male, especially if he were trying it w/ a Female. From Your posts I've gathered You are straight (please, correct me if I am wrong) as is my Dominant, and I don't believe He would appreciate it much if it were a male acting the same way.
Though with Him, it is not so much that He sees it as cute when I act silly, as it is His knowing that I am normally a very serious and guarded person. Only with Him have I felt secure enough to (once in awhile) behave childishly, which was something that even as a child, I was never encouraged to do. So while w/ me it may be something He enjoys seeing, generally He does not approve of nor is He attracted to "bratty" or silly behavior.
Thank You for responding to my post .... (I was beginning to wonder if I had invisible-itis)

subtle

 

[MsWorthy]

As I am a newbie, the term SAMMY was not something I was familiar with. So I am leaning on Hecate's definition here...

While I am a masochist, and a submissive, I do not see how it would ever be beneficial to engineer a Punishment. His disappointment in having to Punish me would far out weigh any satisfaction I would receive from it. I dont believe I would ever be able to "get one over" on Him to begin with. He KNOWS me. KNOWS that I am a masochist. Therefore I do not doubt for one moment (IF I were to become as selfish as to allow my satisfaction to overcome the disappointment I know I would see in His eyes as He looked at me) I would end in receiving a punishment I would not find even the slightest bit enjoyable. That is not even getting into how He would feel if He then found I had "tricked" Him into a punishment, and in doing so showed my obvious lack of respect both for Him, and for O/our relationship.
Instead, I would respectfully broach the subject with Him if ever I felt my needs, as a masochist or otherwise, were not being met. Though I realize the pain and/or pleasure I receive is at His discretion alone, I know also that He will hear with an open mind my own thoughts on the matter and do what He can to remedy the problem, if He feels it is necessary.
Now, on the other hand, being playful, or teasing, maybe even slightly *bratty* (more of a sticking my tongue out at Him for a spanking then the coquettish type) is something He whole heartedly approves of, in the appropriate place and at the appropriate time. ~g~and while I admit to having been definately mouthy at the beginning, swift and extremely un-pleasurable (to say the LEAST) punishment has gone a long way toward showing me the difference between being a brat, and being willfully disrespectful.


subtledecadence

Subtlecadence, you, obviously aren't a SAM (my definition of a SAM anyway), so it makes sense that you couldn't conceive of being manipulative to get what you want (a spanking) and clearly you know the difference between punishment and play.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: See

~laughs~ Well, I do see Your point! I don't think it really would work all that well for a male, especially if he were trying it w/ a Female. From Your posts I've gathered You are straight (please, correct me if I am wrong) as is my Dominant, and I don't believe He would appreciate it much if it were a male acting the same way.
Though with Him, it is not so much that He sees it as cute when I act silly, as it is His knowing that I am normally a very serious and guarded person. Only with Him have I felt secure enough to (once in awhile) behave childishly, which was something that even as a child, I was never encouraged to do. So while w/ me it may be something He enjoys seeing, generally He does not approve of nor is He attracted to "bratty" or silly behavior.
Thank You for responding to my post .... (I was beginning to wonder if I had invisible-itis)

subtle

You are not invisible. And yes, I am straight. I guess I do not get that whole cutesy vibe.

Eb

 

[serijules]

I've been reading this thread with interest and re-defining my own definitions of both a brat and a SAM.

For me, spanking was my first introduction to an alternative lifestyle and I first chatted/posted in strictly spanking forums. The brat/sam instances are very high in these forums. When I gained more real life experience and realized I had a lot more BDSM/masochist tendancies, my personal views on spanking changed as did the type of people I played with.

However, I still often nuture the "little girl" in me, and play with Tops that are pretty much strictly into spanking. At these times, I am often what I define as a SAM....smart mouthed, silly at times, perhaps a touch bratty. To me a brat is a bit more on the extreme of annoying, using mostly actions to get what she wants. A sam leans more on the side of using words and smart-assed comments. I never was one to act like my brat friends (confetti bombs, spank me signs, hiding toys, etc) but I wasn't entirely innocent of testing limits and pushing buttons and teasing, so I kind of threw myself into the sam category. Maybe I'm undefinable lol.

Anyhow, back to my thought...I think that the definition of the words changes depending on the type of people you ask. Dom/me's, Masters, Mistresses...those that live the BDSM lifestyle are likely to have a much different definition and acceptance of the behavior than spanko Tops. The glaring difference in MY case, is the Tops in question usually consent to it. It is behavior that fits well in the relationship because there are no deeper standards like are often present in my D/s relationships. So at those times, being a bit bratty or sammy is all in good fun and well received, for him/her and for me.

However...if I am with someone that shares my views on D/s and I am submitting to him or her, that brat/sam/little girl side is not present. I would not want to be caught dead treating my Dom/me like that or acting like that, because it is not beneficial to our relationship in the least, and would most likely put a serious damper on our exchange. The consent to brat/sam is not there, and to act like that would not be tolerated. It would be annoying, humiliating and uncalled for, and I would just not be willing to make that impression on anyone I submit to. I agree that it is manipulative and disrepectful.

So, for me, the definition of the role entirely depends on who I am with. I play on both extremes of the scale, and adjust my behavior to my surroundings. When it IS appropriate and welcome, I have a lot of fun testing limits, pushing for reactions, and getting my bottom blistered for it. I don't think this makes me any less of a submissive though....just one with good judgement and the ability to respect my partners' limits regarding my own behavior.

 

[Richard49]

bump

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Personally, I'm not having it....you want to submit, fine; you want to be 'punished' just ask for it...do NOT provoke me into anything, or I'll sent you packing. Life is too short, and my time is to precious, to be wasted on games.

 

[Netzach]

Really ineffective with me, as I tend not to use painplay as a consequence, but as a reward.

So if someone's acting out in hopes of a beating they will get an hour with their nose in the corner instead. It usually weeds out the incompatible.

My response to the SAM:

"Have I disrespected you? Then why are you disrespecting me?" Sometimes a valuable conversation ensues.

Or I simply walk away from the situation.

My own partner gets to joke with me a bit more than the casual masochist, but he manages to always do this in a funny, gentle way. He manages to convey "wow, wouldn't it be absurd if I were to challenge you or feed you shit?" when he jokes with me and I find it very sweet.