Ron Regan passes away at 93

[hiddenself]

Etiquette?

Some of us (apparently) do not wholly subscribe to the point of view that dictates that nothing bad be said at a "wake" or "memorial." Certain discretion is advisable, but there is no reason why we should hold our tongues, particularly if we feel that the tributes are way over the top.

PS Would the same rule (if you don't have anything good to say, hold your peace) apply to the death of any human "monster"? (Think Hitler or Stalin or Pinochet or Saddam memorial thread)

 

[cloudy]

Re: Etiquette?

Some of us (apparently) do not wholly subscribe to the point of view that dictates that nothing bad be said at a "wake" or "memorial." Certain discretion is advisable, but there is no reason why we should hold our tongues, particularly if we feel that the tributes are way over the top.

PS Would the same rule (if you don't have anything good to say, hold your peace) apply to the death of any human "monster"? (Think Hitler or Stalin or Pinochet or Saddam memorial thread)

I don't think you can compare Reagan to any of those you listed above. It's apples and poisonous berries. Come up with something that can actually be compared and you might get an answer.

You may not have agreed with his politics, but that hardly makes him a monster. Lots of people that have posted on this thread didn't agree with his politics. This isn't the place for an argument about that. If you didn't like him, fine - don't post in a thread that was obviously intended by the one who started it as a memorial.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Etiquette?

Some of us (apparently) do not wholly subscribe to the point of view that dictates that nothing bad be said at a "wake" or "memorial." Certain discretion is advisable, but there is no reason why we should hold our tongues, particularly if we feel that the tributes are way over the top.

PS Would the same rule (if you don't have anything good to say, hold your peace) apply to the death of any human "monster"? (Think Hitler or Stalin or Pinochet or Saddam memorial thread)

I think if Hitler had died of natural causes and hadn't been usurped in a coup, Germany would mourn him for a day or two, because mourning leaders is something that countries just do. People would give condolonces to Eva Braun and what not. It's honoring a time of leadership and the memories of the time and a time of putting aside partisan bickering. Hell even Francisco Franco got a day of mourning.

Anyway, that isn't the main point. The main point is that if you want to start a thread that says "Reagan was a fuck and deserved to die of AIDS" do so, but don't pollute a memorial thread with it. This is a time of unity where we put aside our feelings of the man and his policies. That way when someone like Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton die, we don't get someone like Blarney or Ami ranting about how he was the polluter of the free world or something. Unity, putting aside the polarization for one tiny thread in the flotsam of debate and cynicism; that's what it's about.

Believe me I was wracked at first too about the disconnect between the horror of the death of the man and the horror of his policies that will survive him, but I figured this was a thread of solemn honor. You should figure the same too. Start an anti-Reagan thread if you want. Just don't do it here.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

There are certain standards of behavior that civilized human beings subscribe to. They aren't universal. There is no written law that codifies them, nor should there be. It's simple courtesy. The kind you extend to other people in moments of sadness or need.

People who do not undrestand or subscribe to these unwritten codes are beyond my ken. I can only say, that if he made enemies of people with this little class, then he must have been doing something right. Their epitath's are perhaps the most ringing endorsement he could have. A man is judged by his enemies. If these are the kinds of enemies he made, then the judgement can only be that he was a good man.

-Colly

 

[Blarneystoned]

Sorry Ronnie

The thing is is that people basically want to express their views even if they are contrary...lit is an open forum and people get over emotional. If it makes someone feel better by calling a leader a slew of names or calling people incapable of compassion, then again, maybe they are blowing off some steam. Us telling them that this is a memorial thread is of no consequence because as much as regular writers tend to think it is...this is not a social forem...this is an idea forem ..devoid of most social etiquettes. When you speak your mind you leave yourself open to criticism. Unfortunately people think they can bring up critiscms and walk off into web wonderland. I am finding that if you try to back your ideas up...there are a dozen who want to counter it. Then they will form opinions, damn your children and you ideology and go back to reading their books on dead poets.

But see Ronnie told us it was a free world and his actions and the actions of many presidents before him have given us free speech and love of country. So Ronnie...Happy trails and thanks for the memories....

Blarneystoned

So back to the funeral

 

[houston32M]

Re: Etiquette?

I know you are not trying to put President Reagan into that class, please tell me you did not just say that?



PS Would the same rule (if you don't have anything good to say, hold your peace) apply to the death of any human "monster"? (Think Hitler or Stalin or Pinochet or Saddam memorial thread) [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[KarenAM]

I regard this thread as a place to reflect on our own lives as well as Reagan's, not to rant or spew venom. As I said before, Reagan's politics were not my own by a long shot, and I could say plenty about that, but I won't do it here.

The fact is that this man represented something in the history of our nation and our planet, and so his passing means something, and I think we should all reflect on that, if not publically here, then quietly alone, as I have been doing today. He was president for eight years of my life and that's a time when a lot happened to me personally and all around the world. As presidents sometimes do, he did perhaps his best work after leaving office (note Jimmy Carter as another example). He showed us that a terrible way to die can still be faced with courage and dignity, and that means something to me.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Sorry Ronnie

The thing is is that people basically want to express their views even if they are contrary...lit is an open forum and people get over emotional. If it makes someone feel better by calling a leader a slew of names or calling people incapable of compassion, then again, maybe they are blowing off some steam. Us telling them that this is a memorial thread is of no consequence because as much as regular writers tend to think it is...this is not a social forem...this is an idea forem ..devoid of most social etiquettes. When you speak your mind you leave yourself open to criticism. Unfortunately people think they can bring up critiscms and walk off into web wonderland. I am finding that if you try to back your ideas up...there are a dozen who want to counter it. Then they will form opinions, damn your children and you ideology and go back to reading their books on dead poets.

But see Ronnie told us it was a free world and his actions and the actions of many presidents before him have given us free speech and love of country. So Ronnie...Happy trails and thanks for the memories....

Blarneystoned

So back to the funeral

a) This is a social forum. It's when someone makes it an ideas forum that things turn ugly.

b) Sometimes things bite you in the butt when you go over to other threads acting uncivily.

c) Don't start a "all you liberals" f***ing stereotype rant. No politics. Not here. That's not what this memorial service is about. Yes, I know "they started it" but you can deign from insulting them as I have tried to keep doing on this thread.

d) You're right. On with the memorial. No more philosophies about the site, no more rants about being thankful that he's dead, no more arguments. Just a soft thread devoted to him as a dead ex-leader. And hopefully I won't have to referee in here anymore.

EDITED TO ADD: And I am talking to everyone when I say all this.

 

[Blarneystoned]

Well said

Karen I agree...it was not easy for Reagan to carry on..but he did.

Blarneystoned

 

[Guest]

Small point, but significant I believe. Yes, this is a porn/erotica site, and this is the "Authors Hangout", but if you've been here over a year you know that this forum is what "we" make it. There are political, medical, technical, personal, sports and silly threads and topics. This one the majority agreed was a memorial.

Perdita

 

[Pure]

A view from the North. Toronto Star.

Jun. 7, 2004. 01:00 AM


Editorial:
Reagan's great appeal



If Ronald Reagan can't be counted among America's truly great presidents, he was easily one of the most popular. He cheated an assassin's bullet, beat back cancer, and appealed with certainty and strength to his country's "best hopes," not its darkest fears.

The Great Communicator's cheery optimism —"America is back"— served as a restorative tonic to a nation that feared the Soviet Union, was battered by Vietnam, Watergate and economic turmoil, felt humiliated during the Iran hostage-taking, and was nagged by a sense of decline.

Reagan's death Saturday deprives the United States of a Republican icon who turned the nation against "big government." And whose terms saw the Cold War wind down without a shot being fired, and America emerge as the undisputed global hyper-power.

While Reagan was considered a friend to Canada by former prime minister Brian Mulroney, many Canadians felt the pair were too close. They never warmed to Reagan's Red-baiting rhetoric, his support for rightwing causes in Central America, or his discredited Reaganomics trickle-down economic policy.

Indeed, former prime minister Pierre Trudeau felt compelled to end his own career with a global peace campaign, to reassure the Russians that their views on détente, and political and economic reform, had traction in the West. That was how tense things were during much of Reagan's tenure from 1980 to 1988.

Reagan railed at the Communist "evil empire," launched the $30 billion "Star Wars" missile defence program that threatened to scuttle détente and which still doesn't work, and presided over a military build-up that persuaded the Soviets they could never outspend their rivals.

If he can't be credited with bringing down the rotten Soviet empire, like Pope John Paul II, he demoralized its leaders, and nudged things along.

Yet Reagan's attitudes weren't frozen in amber. By 1988, when former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev promised glasnost and perestroika, Reagan declared Gorbachev to be "a serious man seeking serious reform" who deserved America's support. The two cut a historic arms deal.

Americans basked in Reagan's sunny, almost obstinate, optimism, and forgave him any number of sins. At times, Reagan's certitude masked an infirm grasp of the facts, a passive indifference to who was minding the White House store, and callousness toward the needy.

He was notoriously inattentive to details, even before his Alzheimer's disease became public a decade ago.

While he preached small government his $1 trillion military build-up and freewheeling tax cuts helped triple the U.S. deficit, and plunged a third more American families into poverty. The U.S. quit Lebanon when terrorists struck its troops. And his second term was tainted when he approved the sale of arms to Iran to gain the release of U.S. hostages, and some profits were given to Contra insurgents fighting Nicaragua's Sandinista government.

But Reagan —sportscaster, Hollywood B movie hero and the last real Cold Warrior—would become the only modern president to quit office more popular than when he arrived.

He made Americans feel good, appealing to their pride and patriotism, and they thanked him for it.

 

[Pure]

Another view from the North

Globe and Mail, Toronto

Reagan's best role was U.S. president


Ex-actor's optimism, enthusiasm proved the right formula to restore America's confidence in itself

By JENNIFER LEWINGTON
Monday, June 7, 2004 - Page A16


Former U.S. president Ronald Wilson Reagan, the Hollywood actor turned politician, will be remembered for his deep-rooted conservatism that transformed American society in the 1980s and ushered in the end of the Cold War.

The 40th president died Saturday of pneumonia, a complication of Alzheimer's, a disease he publicly acknowledged after being diagnosed in 1994. He was 93.

In a political career that spanned 40 years, Mr. Reagan was consistently underestimated by rivals and the media. Some discounted him because of his work as a movie star and television personality in the 1940s and 1950s. Others dismissed him for his detached leadership and lack of interest in policy details; he was known to doze off at White House cabinet meetings.

But what the critics missed about "the prime-time president" was the depth of his conservative values -- a mixture of sunny optimism about American-style freedoms and a fierce antipathy to big government, taxes and Communism -- and his consummate skill in reaching Main Street voters.

Presidential historians say Mr. Reagan cast a long shadow over the second half of the 20th century in domestic and foreign policy.

"Some presidencies are wines that age well and others don't have a very good half-life. This one is surprising in that it turns out to make a difference," said Princeton University presidential scholar Fred Greenstein, author of The Presidential Difference, a comparison of U.S. leaders from Franklin Delano Roosevelt to Bill Clinton.

The first president since Dwight D. Eisenhower to serve two full terms, Mr. Reagan won landslide victories in 1980 and 1984. In his first term, he moved swiftly to cut taxes and boost military spending, pushing federal deficits to record highs and rolling back New Deal programs that had defined an era of big government after the Second World War.

An ardent anti-Communist, Mr. Reagan denounced the Soviet Union in 1983 as the "evil empire." But his greatest foreign-policy triumph came during his second term when he struck up a pragmatic relationship with a new, charismatic Soviet president, Mikhail Gorbachev, setting the stage for a series of arms-reduction agreements.

Another foreign policy breakthrough was the signing of the Canada-U.S. free trade pact in 1988, with prime minister Brian Mulroney as an eager partner. A trade-liberalization initiative with Mexico soon followed.

Mr. Reagan was in office long enough to ensure a rightward tilt to the Supreme Court, critical to social debates on abortion and civil rights. To the dismay of liberals, Mr. Reagan retrenched on civil rights and was virtually silent on the AIDS epidemic.

In 1989, Mr. Reagan left the White House as the oldest man to hold that office and with the highest public opinion rating for an outgoing president since the Second World War. But his tenure was marred by scandals, including the indictment of two former aides for influence peddling.

The Reagan years ended on a sombre note because of the Iran-contra scandal, which involved revelations that senior White House officials were behind a clandestine plot to sell arms to Iran while seeking Iranian aid to gain release of U.S. hostages held in Lebanon. Some of the money earned by selling arms to Iran was used to aid contra rebels fighting the leftist government of Nicaragua.

To many, Mr. Reagan was a man of contradictions. He espoused family values, but had been divorced and was often distant from some of his children.

"[What] confused me was my father's emphasis on children," his estranged daughter, Patti Davis, wrote in her autobiography, The Way I See It. "I was frequently tempted to remind him that I was his child; it seemed sometimes to have slipped his mind."

Mr. Reagan was known as The Great Communicator, yet he barely acknowledged he had misled Americans in the Iran-contra affair.

He was raised a liberal Democrat and voted four times for FDR, but became a Republican in 1962. As president, Mr. Reagan espoused a New Right economic formula -- branded Reaganomics -- that promised huge tax and spending cuts, a big military buildup, smaller government and a balanced budget. The numbers did not add up and the deficit soared. But that didn't matter: Reaganomics overturned New Deal thinking about government as the answer to society's problems.

The foundation of Mr. Reagan's presidency dated back to his early years. Several years after he left office, historians discovered a treasure trove of hand-written speeches from the 1950s and 1960s, all built on themes he later espoused as president.

"We are now getting a sense here was some substance behind the actor as well," Prof. Greenstein said. "He was more than his public image."

Mr. Reagan was born Feb. 6, 1911 in Tampico, Ill., the younger of two sons of Nelle Wilson and Jack Reagan. The family moved around before settling in 1920 in Dixon, Ill., later considered home by Mr. Reagan. His father was a shoe salesman and an alcoholic; his mother sparked his interest in acting.

[...]
He twice failed to become the Republican presidential nominee, in 1968 and again in 1976 when he challenged Gerald Ford, the incumbent. But in 1980, with the country in the psychological and economic doldrums, Republicans warmly backed Mr. Reagan.With high inflation (13.5 per cent), Americans being held hostage in Iran, a weak Jimmy Carter presidency and a national mood of self-doubt, he delivered feel-good messages about the United States as a "beacon of hope for those who do not have freedom" and promised an "era of national renewal."

"Reagan was right for the times. He had answers," said David Dreyer, a top Democratic congressional aide during the first half of the Reagan presidency. "He embodied a sense of confidence in the way America ought to be."But just two months into his presidency, Americans almost lost Mr. Reagan. He survived an assassination attempt by drifter John Hinckley on March 30, 1981, and watched his popularity soar.Using his popularity and powers of persuasion, Mr. Reagan swiftly drove through a radical budget plan that made deep cuts to social programs, brought in the largest tax cut in U.S. history ($335-billion U.S. over three years) and downloaded social programs to the states.

His communication skill proved an asset to him, but detractors labelled him as a cue-card president. In her memoirs, Reagan White House speechwriter Peggy Noonan tried to explain how the actor's skills served the president."He really always played himself. . . . That's why he seemed both phony and authentic. Because he was. He was really acting but the part he was playing was Ronald Reagan," she concluded.Mr. Reagan's fierce anti-Communism shaped his foreign policy in his first term, such as military support for the contras fighting against the Communist government in Nicaragua, aid to the government of El Salvador while it fought Communist rebels, and help for Afghan rebels battling Soviet troops. U.S. troops also invaded Grenada in 1983, fearing it would fall into Cuba's hands.

At home, Mr. Reagan laboured under a severe recession, double-digit unemployment, soaring budget deficits and a divisive debate over his radical, space-based Strategic Defence Initiative (popularly known as Star Wars) to ward off a possible missile attack from the Soviet Union. Critics viewed the $30-billion plan as an excuse for a huge military expansion.In 1984, with an improved economy under his belt, Mr. Reagan asked Americans "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?"

Their response gave him a decisive win over Democrat Walter Mondale.In his second term, Mr. Reagan the anti-Communist crusader took on a new role, pushed by wife Nancy, who was worried about his legacy. In 1987, with Mr. Gorbachev making overtures to the West, Mr. Reagan stood at the Brandenburg Gate, part of the wall that separated East and West Berlin, and called out to his Soviet counterpart."General-Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate!" he insisted. "Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."

Months later, the leaders signed the Intermediate Nuclear Force Treaty, the first arms-control pact to reduce the superpowers' inventory of nuclear missiles. Reminded at a summit in 1988 he once called the Soviet Union the "evil empire," Mr. Reagan said: "I was talking about another time, another era."

Despite such bold strokes, his second term was marred by the debilitating impact of the Iran-contra affair. His woolly recollection of what he knew about the scandal reinforced the image of a disengaged president.Still, he remained a beloved figure to many Americans, an embrace he cherished most of all.

[end excerpts]

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Etiquette?

Some of us (apparently) do not wholly subscribe to the point of view that dictates that nothing bad be said at a "wake" or "memorial." Certain discretion is advisable, but there is no reason why we should hold our tongues, particularly if we feel that the tributes are way over the top.

PS Would the same rule (if you don't have anything good to say, hold your peace) apply to the death of any human "monster"? (Think Hitler or Stalin or Pinochet or Saddam memorial thread)

This discusion, while important, is inapproprate for this thread. To this end, it has been moved.

How to act at a wake.
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?threadid=252640

 

[amicus]

With the 60th anniversary of the Normandy invasion and the passing of Former President Ronald Wilson Reagan, this has been an emotion charged weekend for many.

I read somewhere that nearly a thousand WW2 vets are passing each day as most are in their 80's

A generation is passing the torch on, it is a solemn time when one considers that.

Although the rage of some, expressed in this wake was distasteful, it was not unexpected.

What is distasteful and even obscene, is the heavy handed suppression and censorship expressed by the previous post:



"This discusion, while important, is inapproprate for this thread. To this end, it has been moved.

How to act at a wake.
https://forum.literotica.com/...threadid=252640


The morality police strike again. Whatever happened to free speech even if it is ugly?

disappointed, amicus

 

[Guest]

What is distasteful and even obscene, is the heavy handed suppression and censorship expressed by the previous post:

"This discusion, while important, is inapproprate for this thread. To this end, it has been moved.

How to act at a wake.
https://forum.literotica.com/...threadid=252640

The morality police strike again. Whatever happened to free speech even if it is ugly?

disappointed, amicus

Nothing was suppressed or censored. It was merely moved to a different thread more appropriate to that specific topic.

There is a time and a place for everything. This particular thread was a memorial for the death of a president. Period.

(And - I did not vote for the man. But I am intelligent enough NOT to see conspiracy in every blessed thing.)

 

[amicus]

The editorial in the LA Times (posted here by a regular) was cited and Identified on cable news tonight as, 'left wing retribution against a popular President'

You do not find that innappropriate for a 'wake'?

As I recall there was more than one 'left wing' editorial quoted and posted, all anti-reagan....

If you are going to censor, at least be consistent.

amicus

 

[Guest]

It must be a conspiracy.

 

[Blarneystoned]

Good Bye Ronnie...

God Bless and safe journey! Say a prayer for us on the other side, you were a great leader and a grand ole man.

May The Lord bless you and keep you;

May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you;

May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

And may Our Lady bless you with her maternal love



In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen


Farewell Gipper,

Blarneystoned