Romantic BDSM

[CutieMouse]

(is the sky falling? Cutie just started a thread... )

Something that has been on my mind for a while has been the concept of romance within the contex of a BDSM/DS relationship. There are times when it seems (to *me*) so much focus in the community is devoted to kinky sex that the romantic/emotional exchange/soul engulfing Love that expresses itself through BDSM ends up a bit lost in the shuffle.

I'm not sure I have my own thoughts collected well enough to be a great contributor to the conversation, but I would like to hear other's thoughts on the aspects of romance in a BDSM relationship if y'all would care to chat.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Have to say I am blessed to have both a sadist and a romantic, though I am, told he was not a romantic in the past. It is not unusual for him to stop everything, sit me down, and tell me just how much he loves me, what I bring to his life, and how he sees us, all in nothing short of what a Hollywood script writer would be proud of. He also is bringing me gifts each weekend when he comes home...sends romantic SMS messages and emails, gives me great phone calls, and then spins me some of the hottest, wildest fantasies you could imagine...and even better, delivers on all, romantic, hot, sadistic, and dirty. I am blessed.

Catalina

 

[tealsphynx]

Hi Cutie Mouse!
I think it very much depends on the people involved in the relationship. I've seen a few couples in our local group here that it's all very romantic. There's this female couple who are so loving with eachother, even during scenes it has the feel of a romance. It's very emotional and sensual for them, not just kinky sex. Then there's another couple that we play with from time to time that it's about romance, kink, sex, emotions and sensations. I really think it depends on the couple.

 

[cati]

...Have to say I am blessed to have both a sadist and a romantic, though I am, told he was not a romantic in the past. It is not unusual for him to stop everything, sit me down, and tell me just how much he loves me, what I bring to his life, and how he sees us, all in nothing short of what a Hollywood script writer would be proud of. He also is bringing me gifts each weekend when he comes home...sends romantic SMS messages and emails, gives me great phone calls, and then spins me some of the hottest, wildest fantasies you could imagine...and even better, delivers on all, romantic, hot, sadistic, and dirty. I am blessed.
---------------------------------------------------------------
...and the age old question is..does he have a brother?

 

[catalina_francisco]

...Have to say I am blessed to have both a sadist and a romantic, though I am, told he was not a romantic in the past. It is not unusual for him to stop everything, sit me down, and tell me just how much he loves me, what I bring to his life, and how he sees us, all in nothing short of what a Hollywood script writer would be proud of. He also is bringing me gifts each weekend when he comes home...sends romantic SMS messages and emails, gives me great phone calls, and then spins me some of the hottest, wildest fantasies you could imagine...and even better, delivers on all, romantic, hot, sadistic, and dirty. I am blessed.
---------------------------------------------------------------
...and the age old question is..does he have a brother?

Alas, no.

Catalina

 

[graceanne]

I don't know if I ever thought it out, but K's very romantic. More than I appreciate - since I'm not really. But at least once a year (for either my birthday or mothers day) he buys me a rose bush. I've got them in pots right now, but some day we're gonna own our property, and I'll plant them all. I'll have a whole bunch of rose bushes, all that he bought me. Right now I have a white rose bush, a red one, a yellow one, and a pink rose tree.

 

[RJMasters]

.....

 

[graceanne]

Great thread Cutie!

I will summarize my comments to this statement.

People tend to forget that a relationship which is long lasting, regardless of it being a BDSM relationship or not, requires the same fundamentals of any relationship romance included. Although what a woman in the BDSM lifestyle finds romatic I bet is more times than not, something very different than what a vanilla woman would consider romantic.

The vanilla woman ohs and ahs over the pretty roses, where as the submissive ohs and ahs over the roses but gets wet at the thought of the stems being used in various ways....

J/K

no I am not

yes, yes I am.

*bats eyes* I just love decisiveness in a man.

I got to thinking about it, and in truth the most romantic thing K does is how how well he takes care of me when I'm sick.

 

[Netzach]

It's not really the what but the how.

I do minimal romance with my slave. I think once in a blue moon I go there, but it's usually by buying "cindy" (his femme alter ego) something pretty and girly to wear.

With my husband, romance is a more appropriate component of the relationship, he's not a slave.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I go back and forth on the romance thing. At one point; I thought there was nothing more romantic than "BDSM". (wheeze hack cough). Now I'm thinking I might have something of a virgin/whore complex.

 

[catalina_francisco]

It's not really the what but the how.

I do minimal romance with my slave. I think once in a blue moon I go there, but it's usually by buying "cindy" (his femme alter ego) something pretty and girly to wear.

With my husband, romance is a more appropriate component of the relationship, he's not a slave.

I am not sure I agree the slave thing negates the inclusion of romance, except in popular stereotyped images. There have been more than one instance of the historical reality of Master/slave relationships (the real ones which I think the BDSM type gets a lot of their inspiration and mindset from) where love and romance was a key element. Granted they were the exception more than the norm, but they were still a matter of property and ownership, just the participants found that did not exclude their emotions, nor become less of a Master/Mistress or slave because of it. I kinda like the dichotomy and stepping out of the box thing in this though.

Catalina

 

[shy slave]

It depends what you call romantic.

Net had breakfast brought to her in bed, to alot of people thats considered romantic (including me), but in general I get embarrassed if I am in receipt of romantic gestures.

Not sure why *shrugs* but I would rather do something for him than the other way round.

Then again, there are times when I would define romance as him picking the newspaper up off the floor!

RJ said romance may be different in a BDSM relationship than vanilla, I guess thats true but IMO it also varies from relationship to relationship regardless of D/s v Vanilla. This is because the people involved are different and have had different upbringings, cultures and desires from the previous person you have known.

I like RJ's comment:

People tend to forget that a relationship which is long lasting, regardless of it being a BDSM relationship or not, requires the same fundamentals of any relationship romance included

That rings true in my mind, its easy to focus purely on the sexual aspects and forget the elements that sustain the rest of the relationship.
In comparision, the sex is the easy but the rest, including romance; can be the hard part to get right.

For me romantic gestures I can cope with fall into two areas:
1) Words not gestures. His telling me how he sees me and what that means to him, is worth a dozen bouquets of flowers etc.
2) His noticing the small things that would make my life better: explaining a concept I dont understand, doing things I have difficulty with for whatever reason, talking to my youngest son.

I see romantic gestures from me to him fall into three areas.

1)Sending him useless items in the post that have no meaning to anyone else but us.

2)Caring about all aspects of his well-being

3)Listening to him and to others to find out what he really likes outside of the BDSM spectrum; then using this information to make enhance his life in a positive way.

These may not seem romantic in terms of lavish but I have discovered that its the small gestures that keep a relationship alive and sustains it when life gets difficult.

 

[CutieMouse]

It's not really the what but the how.

I do minimal romance with my slave. I think once in a blue moon I go there, but it's usually by buying "cindy" (his femme alter ego) something pretty and girly to wear.

With my husband, romance is a more appropriate component of the relationship, he's not a slave.

See I read this and went "yup" inside my heart. Supporting that femme alter ego and doing it because you know it's there... to me that is romantic. Save/non-slave doesn't (to me) negate the romance within that small act.

I have never defined "romance" as roses and wine... for me romance is understanding each other's souls and then acting on that knowledge. Its the silly connection even when you are apart that makes you smile when something reminds you of your Lover (be it a book, or a meal, or a song, or a fabulous pair of shoes, or a dog collar at the pet store...) and then sharing that smile with the person you Love. Or stepping outside of your comfort zone based on the knowledge it would please your Lover. Or creating an environment to give your Lover opportunity to prove their devotion. To me *that* is romantic. That isn't to say all the flowery language above is devoid of sex or pain... on the contrary the pain, struggle, suffering, discipline and intensity (to me) feeds the Love which in turn feeds the pain,struggle, discipline, yada yada yada... a closed-loop system of positive-reinforcement you might say.

For me the romance (not the roses) is the expression of the Love is the manifestation of the Trust is the Knowledge that my Soul is Safe and Cherished- and therefore so am I. (which makes fabulously painful sex all the better... but I said that parenthetically so no one heard me say it... I'm still pretty damned shy, ya know. )

 

[RJMasters]

.....

 

[shy slave]

For me the romance (not the roses) is the expression of the Love is the manifestation of the Trust is the Knowledge that my Soul is Safe and Cherished- and therefore so am I. (which makes fabulously painful sex all the better... but I said that parenthetically so no one heard me say it... I'm still pretty damned shy, ya know. )

Oh Cutie you express this perfectly.

Thank you

 

[AngelicAssassin]

For me the romance ... (which makes fabulously painful sex all the better ...)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0964596008.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,32,-59_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Whipped with a dozen ain't a bad way to say i love you. Literally screwed with them brings up all kinds of delicious possibilities as well.

 

[Netzach]

I am not sure I agree the slave thing negates the inclusion of romance, except in popular stereotyped images. There have been more than one instance of the historical reality of Master/slave relationships (the real ones which I think the BDSM type gets a lot of their inspiration and mindset from) where love and romance was a key element. Granted they were the exception more than the norm, but they were still a matter of property and ownership, just the participants found that did not exclude their emotions, nor become less of a Master/Mistress or slave because of it. I kinda like the dichotomy and stepping out of the box thing in this though.

Catalina

Hey cool, others can do what works. I have submissive partners and lovers.

In the Netzachverse you are property first and foremost when the "slave" word is invoked, and have as much right to romance as the toaster. Unless I just feel like it it doesn't happen.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Unless I just feel like it it doesn't happen.

LOL, well don't recall my ever asking for or demanding it, but guess part of the upside of having a Spanish Master is there is that instinctual drive for him to be both sadist and romantic, passionate being all in one. I have discovered his passion is just part of his genetic make up, and it seems to be a part of that whole cultural make up for most from that area of the world...nice to find it is not just myth and fantasy of writers and movi makers.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

but in general I get embarrassed if I am in receipt of romantic gestures.

Not sure why *shrugs* but I would rather do something for him than the other way round.

I have to agree, but then it also comes back to who directs what happens, how, and why, and whose pleasure comes first. For him, he is pleased to be served well and sometimes has to stop me from doing too much and then almost killing myself, but he also likes the freedom which is his right, to express his feelings in whatever way pleases him....often times that may be a way which he knows I find difficult, and thus makes it more appealing for him to teach me to accept and more than that, appreciate for it's beauty and generosity. I do see many Dominants who buy into the idea that being Dominant means being/acting hard, cold, aggressive, and at times masking and burying any displays of their affection toward a submissive....that to me is then allowing someone else's ideas and values dominate and design your relationship style, not the Dominant. I am blessed that F does not need to fulfil anyone else's image but his own, and act in the ways which he feels are authentic for him and us, not perhaps the image portrayed in popular porn.

The vanilla type things are not a huge part of our relationship in terms of romance, but then that also takes into account most vanilla relationships do not exist of people who take the time to verbalise their feelings for each other, or take time to really know each other to the core and act on that. He has a way of personalising a gift which makes it clear he has been observing and understanding things about me much more than I realised, and in that I find reality, love, and romance. I count my blessings daily that I can have both those unexpected moments of romance, and those sadistic ones which leave me shaking and marked in ways no other has.

Catalina

 

[brioche]

i think one of the key elements of romance is the concept of sensuality.
For me, anyway. Breakfast in bed isn't romantic in and of itself (you get it in the hospital for example). Nowadays, my dad serves my mum breakfast in bed every weekend, and i don't think they find it particularly romantic. Or maybe they do, they are in their fifties and still have a very active sex life (i live in the same house, and my mum is not quiet). i always assumed it had to do with the fact that my mum has arthritis and takes a while to get going when she has the time.
But, yet again, i digress.

For me, there is an element of romance that is very sensual. Think of a massage, with the oil slowly being smoothed over your skin, or the feel of a fur covered paddle stroking down your spine. That's the kind of romance that comes to my mind. Not that i don't like the cuddly stuff too, but i think of that core of sensuality as true romance.
Once, for Valentine's Day, my boyfriend at the time stopped by my high school and gave me a bunch of carnations and some candy. The guy who had been crushing on me for a year (and whom i flirted with outrageously) gave me one of those Valentine-o-grams schools do, with a little poem he wrote attached to the carnation that started, "Your sensuality is so sweet..." Guess which one i liked better? i still have the card somewhere, and was secretly tickled when *his* carnation lasted longer than the others. i should have taken it as a sign, the boyfriend later moved in with a friend of mine and i never got it together with the other guy. (sigh)

i think that romantic BDSM is totally possible, and a good idea to boot, as it promotes a healthy relationship. What that romance is for you, however, is a fluid concept. Perhaps that's something else that should be investigated within the bounds of the relationship. Just MHO

 

[His_pita]

I love romance and am very happy to have it with my Dom. Of course we are newly, wildly in love so there better be some romance for us.

 

[shy slave]

In the Netzachverse you are property first and foremost when the "slave" word is invoked, and have as much right to romance as the toaster.

That's a great line

Edit to add: Now off watch him wine and dine his toaster

 

[catalina_francisco]

I love romance and am very happy to have it with my Dom. Of course we are newly, wildly in love so there better be some romance for us.

If you are anything like us, you will find in 3 years, instead of it waning or becoming matter of fact, it just gets deeper and better, and never ceases to amaze either of you with its beauty....and sadism.

Catalina

 

[Bandit58]

If you are anything like us, you will find in 3 years, instead of it waning or becoming matter of fact, it just gets deeper and better, and never ceases to amaze either of you with its beauty....and sadism.

Catalina

Yes - after almost 2 years together we have found it is so, though not so much with the sadism part (though He does enjoy spanking me with various implements! ) My reward for being good is a good spanking, and my punishment is going without one

I do love to get flowers, because those sort of things in my previous life were non existent. Also lots of kisses and cuddles, ditto. I will often catch Him looking at me. The look on His face just makes me melt. Sometimes I wonder how my heart can stand feeling so full

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yes - after almost 2 years together we have found it is so, though not so much with the sadism part (though He does enjoy spanking me with various implements! ) My reward for being good is a good spanking, and my punishment is going without one

I do love to get flowers, because those sort of things in my previous life were non existent. Also lots of kisses and cuddles, ditto. I will often catch Him looking at me. The look on His face just makes me melt. Sometimes I wonder how my heart can stand feeling so full

I can so understand what you mean. I did have previous relationships where I was showered with gifts, flowers etc., and as nice as it was, it never meant the same as it does now as the men were doing it to impress, or to get something from me (so they thought)....this time it is done because he wants to and he means it, and given it is not something he has done for others in the past, it is a genuine demonstration of the depth of his love and the choice he is making to demonstrate it in whatever way feels right for him. Sometimes that might be a good whipping or cutting, other times it may be an unexpected bunch of flowers, and sometimes even both.

Catalina