Rocket Scientists...

[cloudy]

Every time the winds change in Washington, NASA 1 goes into panic mode. Predictions of mass layoffs and down sizing are rampant and have been many, many times over the last twenty years.

As usual, this too shall pass as the local news stations find something else to chew on.

For those that don't know, NASA 1 is the area of Southeastern Houston where the NASA complex is.

PS: Everyone knows why you started this thread. You started it so you could take another swipe at the President you don't like.

NASA will now be in the downsizing mode due to our wonderful president, who instead of creating jobs is trying his damnedest to reduce the working to the fewest he can and still support his utopian dreams.

You stated as much in your first post.

We've got a NASA complex here, too (well, a few miles away, in Huntsville), but they've already announced that there won't be any jobs lost at this NASA installation, so it can't be that damn bad.

 

[littleblackdress50]

Every time the winds change in Washington, NASA 1 goes into panic mode. Predictions of mass layoffs and down sizing are rampant and have been many, many times over the last twenty years.

As usual, this too shall pass as the local news stations find something else to chew on.

For those that don't know, NASA 1 is the area of Southeastern Houston where the NASA complex is.

The paranoia inside NASA comes from the fact that the "rocket scientists" tend to come from the "Military Industrial Complex" and float back and forth between NASA and the defence based aerospace industry.

The defence companies have a deserved reputation of massive hirings and firings, and sometimes those massive employment shifts go on at the same time. It is not unusual for a defence company to be laying off engineers from one project while hiring them in droves for another project without human services being involved. You get layed off on Friday from the cancled FX27 project ... walk in the employment office door on Monday and get hired with all seniority and benefits on the spot for the FX32 project.

Just the way they do things.

 

[TxRad]

The paranoia inside NASA comes from the fact that the "rocket scientists" tend to come from the "Military Industrial Complex" and float back and forth between NASA and the defence based aerospace industry.

The defence companies have a deserved reputation of massive hirings and firings, and sometimes those massive employment shifts go on at the same time. It is not unusual for a defence company to be laying off engineers from one project while hiring them in droves for another project without human services being involved. You get layed off on Friday from the cancled FX27 project ... walk in the employment office door on Monday and get hired with all seniority and benefits on the spot for the FX32 project.

Just the way they do things.

Yeah, I know all about it. I didn't always work in the oil fields. They were my way of getting out of the rat race.

 

[xssve]

Bush's NASA cuts halts much research

WASHINGTON, April 4 (UPI) -- U.S. President George Bush's goal to return astronauts to the moon by 2018 has forced NASA to trim spending for many research projects across the nation.

Astronomers, biologists and other U.S. scientists have received funding termination letters from NASA halting numerous space-related research projects at universities across the country, the Gannett News Service reported Tuesday.

The funding cuts are also viewed in alarm by scientists who fear the cuts will have a negative affect on students considering research careers.

"We are going to lose a whole generation of researchers because there is no funding to train them," Millie Hughes-Fulford, a former space shuttle payload specialist now at the University of California-San Francisco, told Gannett. "They look at people who put their life's work into NASA and see those people have no funding."

Translation: Bush cut NASA's overall budget then told them to fly to the moon, probably to build himself a retirement home - or a place to hide out when all his chickens come home to roost. This means department budgets not directly related to jumping over the moon were cut.

Obama basically set thing back to where they were before Georges little photo op.

Constellation had been heavily criticized since it was unveiled in 2005 by President George W. Bush. Even before the plan was announced, some scientists pointed out that manned exploration has drawbacks, such as high costs, extreme safety requirements, and humans’ biological sensitivity to radiation. Scientists such as Ronald Arkin of the Mobile Robot Laboratory asked whether robots could do exploration better. The high-profile success of the Mars Rovers, Cassini, and Mars Phoenix mission suggested that robotic exploration was viable, at the very least.

Wired: Obama Gives NASA More Money, Cuts Manned Trip to Moon

Huh - using robots instead of experimenting with people; cheaper, safer - the ideas these crazy scientists come up with...

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I know you're sorry, and I know you recently had to deal with similar issues. Thank you

However, one of the major reasons so many schools are facing such a budget crunch now is from all the unfunded forced federal mandates that comprise No Child Left Behind. Obama is working to fix or toss it. Another example of him fixing one of Bush's mistakes. Fixing, Zeb. FIXING.

Unfortunately, it won't happen in time to help us.

I was never in favor of that idiotic plan...it was just a feel good thing for kids who really need to know what life is about. Hope things go well for you and yours.

 

[xssve]

You know that was a pattern with Bush - he would set some lofty, idealistic goal, then not fund it - did the same thing with hydrogen - set a goal for transition to a hydrogen economy (ironically, almost the exact timeframe Al Gore described in his book, which the conservatives were roundly mocking out of the other side of their mouths "he hates internal combustion!") - he even created a new bureaucracy to do it, then gave them a budget so tight they couldn't even afford office space.

Then he cut funding for every other project that remotely offered increased energy independence or economic competitiveness, meanwhile, bloating the budget with handouts to his buddies in the arms and oil industries. Fucking typical, and you idiots fall for it every time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The only thing that sucks is having trite drivel typed by bullshit artist and blustering buffoons. Other than that I'm quite happy with who I am thank you. Probably more so that you. After all you are the one typing the hate-filled post, not me.

dude, you hate almost everyone in this forum these days.

I really hope that you remember why you came here in the first place, and soon.

 

[stephen55]

Damn!! This is what happens when you elect a non-Randroid!!!

There is an inherent fallacy in the Obama announcement that anyone familiar with the Space program knows full well.

First off, the cancellation of the Constellation Project and the heavy lift rocket Aries, is an ouright waste of over three billion dollars in research, development and testing.

The money was spent on research, testing and development. The results of which are in the can and can be reopened at any time. It'll cost one "can opener" to reopen it all.

Secondly, as the Space Shuttle program is due to end after three more missions, the United States has to depend on the Russian Space Program to transport our Astronauts to the Space Station and the Russians just doubled the price per trip.

Imagine that. The Russians do understand the law of supply and demand. Who would have thought? When the price becomes too high...I wonder what will happen...? (BTW, did the Russians really double the price per trip? References...?)

Thirdly, the so called, private enterprise options simply don't exist. It will be years before Virgin Atlantic will even offer sub orbital flights for tourists and never be able to achieve orbit with sufficient payload to resupply the Space Shuttle.

This can't possibly be correct. Virgin Atlantic is a private company that operates freely, outside of government interference. Since when has a government done anything that Free Enterprise and Objectivism hasn't done better, cheaper and faster? )

So..it is not just the Planned Moon Base, upon which additional billions have been spent, including a recent impact in a Lunar Polar Region that detected ice, which can be used for fuel and water, all of that research is now useless to the United States, but may benefit the Chinese.

That impact detected water. Wow. Now the US doesn't know about that water. Pity....

It was nowhere near as much water as was hoped for. Oops...only the Chinese know that anymore.

This is Obama contemplating his navel at best. Possibly one of the worst decisions ever made by anyone, anywhere for any reason.

Why are you surprised? Obama never was a member of The Collective, which explains why he doesn't understand that Resistance Is Futile.

Amicus Veritas...

An example of a double oxymoron in that you are not friendly to non-Randroids and your truth is limited to Randroid drivel.

Asking you to be reasonable is futile. Is asking you to be consistent reasonable?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Huh - using robots instead of experimenting with people; cheaper, safer - the ideas these crazy scientists come up with...

Robots.

Health care reform.

ROBOTS.



ZOMG!!!

Obama's using the NASA piccadilly to beard over his secret Socialist/Communist/Nazi/Muslim plan to build robots for his Death Panels!!! And since Florida is essentially one big retirement nest for the elderly, guess who's at the front line of fire? GRAN'MAW!!!



He's a-gonna kill Granny after all!!! And after he's put his liberal Democratic Congress-sponsored genocide against the unnecessary and obsolete elderly into effect, he's going to continue his indocrination of our nation's malleable, impressionable youth into a Grand Obamanian Army that will rule the universe!!!

http://members.cox.net/renegade_sith3/miscjunk/sw2-clone-army.jpg

DAMN YOU, OBAMA!!! Is there no end to your murderous, magnanimous, malevolent, manipulative Machiavellian machinations?

 

[sr71plt]

I vote he take the reactionary Chicken Little nut cases first.

 

[TxRad]

I vote he take the reactionary Chicken Little nut cases first.

That would essentially end the political threads here.

 

[Katyusha]

I know you're sorry, and I know you recently had to deal with similar issues. Thank you

However, one of the major reasons so many schools are facing such a budget crunch now is from all the unfunded forced federal mandates that comprise No Child Left Behind. Obama is working to fix or toss it. Another example of him fixing one of Bush's mistakes. Fixing, Zeb. FIXING.

Unfortunately, it won't happen in time to help us.

NCLB is a huge reason behind closing down a bunch of schools in Arizona. And many of those schools are already badly overcrowded, let's make it worse, shall we?

 

[Katyusha]

We've got a NASA complex here, too (well, a few miles away, in Huntsville), but they've already announced that there won't be any jobs lost at this NASA installation, so it can't be that damn bad.

That's where Space Camp is held, isn't it?

 

[stephen55]

Why NASA can't have beaucoup bucks.....

At the (near 100%) risk of yet again being passed off as a coward of the Intellectual Left, morally and ethically bankrupt etc. ad nausea etc., I'd like to toss a few opinions about NASA and it's various budgets into the thread.

I'm a huge NASA buff. I regularly visit their web pages, especially that of The Jet Propulsion Laboratory...

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/

...and check up on their ongoing mission projects. As a moon buff in general, I've got a section on the various aspects of lunar science in my library. The history and geology of the moon is one of my space buff interests. The Apollo Program gave us samples of lunar rocks and soils and also left many instruments to measure various aspects of lunar science.

So, why does NASA exist...

NASA Mission Statement

* To improve life here,
* To extend life to there,
* To find life beyond.

NASA Vision

* To understand and protect our home planet, To explore the Universe and search for life, and To inspire the next generation of explorers... as only NASA can.

http://naccenter.arc.nasa.gov/NASAMission.html

NASA's vision just might explain why they have 23 missions flying right now to study and measure climate change and another 15 missions proposed. So much for ami's assertion that there is zero scientific evidence for global warming. Sorry, ami, NASA doesn't agree with you. Perhaps you feel all of these missions should be scrapped, the data canned forever and that NASA should only work on manned missions to the Moon and Mars.

http://climate.nasa.gov/

Just 5 questions: Ice ice, baby

http://climate.nasa.gov/images/newsPage-299.jpg

http://climate.nasa.gov/news/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNews&NewsID=299

NASA has remarkable record of success with unmanned missions. In terms of science bang for science buck, it's been fantastic. It's also cost a lot of bucks. NASA would like all kinds of more bucks as they have enough mission proposals right now to keep them in business for decades. Given budget realities and the US deficit, sending a manned mission to the moon and building a manned base would be nice if it can be justified after Dubya has put the US about $704 billion into Iraq, as of February 2010 in direct costs. (Total cost, including indirect costs and future costs....who knows for sure. The Washington Post has estimated it at about $3 trillion. That's billion with a "t".) And all we're talking is money here. What about the human treasure lost over there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html

NASA has various estimates of what a manned mission to Mars would cost, depending on the specific goals and length of such a mission. I've read estimates of $40 to $80 billion. Less conservative estimates have gone as high as $300 billion. Right now, NASA isn't being given that kind of budget for any manned missions away from earth orbit.

Just think what NASA could do with one tenth of the final, real, total cost of Dubya's flexing his military muscles instead of his brain.

Late breaking news!!
Obama wants the US to go to Mars.
Just not now.

http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-e...a-to-send-manned-mission-to-mars-by-2035.html

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Because of the greater gravity, Mars would be more habitable, eventually. Kim Stanley Robinson won a Nebula award winning trilogy on the potential thereof. But the key word is 'eventually'. The Red Planet is one Hell of a long ways away and much would be needed in improved space-faring before making serious voyages there feasible. The Space Elevator or something akin to it would make mining the Moon and asteroids much more economical in the nearer term. I think abandoning the lunar colony is not a good idea. I'd say Moon First, Mars Someday.

 

[amicus]

Because of the greater gravity, Mars would be more habitable, eventually. Kim Stanley Robinson won a Nebula award winning trilogy on the potential thereof. But the key word is 'eventually'. The Red Planet is one Hell of a long ways away and much would be needed in improved space-faring before making serious voyages there feasible. The Space Elevator or something akin to it would make mining the Moon and asteroids much more economical in the nearer term. I think abandoning the lunar colony is not a good idea. I'd say Moon First, Mars Someday.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Not often that I am pleasured to agree with you.

http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q2811.html

That link is pretty much the hard evidence of what will be involved in a manned Mars mission.

One interesting thing I did discover during the research was that, depending on the orbit of Mars in relation to Earth, radio signals, at the speed of light, can take three minutes up to 22 minutes for a one-way signal.

While between Earth and the Moon, the time is 1.25 seconds, or 2.5 seconds for a round trip signal. That statistic impresses me with just how far Mars is from Earth.

I didn't agree with the Capsule landing procedures that were incorporated into the Constellation/Aries program; just like the original Apollo missions, that return through the upper atmosphere, with the uncertain landing location, as evidence by Russian flights, scared the hell out of me.

Until I learned the details of just what a manned Mars mission would require, I thought a Lunar Colony was a bad idea. NASA and the Science Channels changed my mind and a Lunar venture would permit the necessary technology to develope and mature.

Sending mechanical devices into space is a more economical way to learn, but it is very limited in several important ways.

I think the new direction given NASA is entirely wrong headed and will not produce much of anything besides research data for science wonks.

There is a bit of National pride involved, as there was when the American Scientific community wilted watching Sputnik overhead.

Being number one and first does hold certain values.

In manned space flight, it looks as though we will be third or fourth, behind China, Russia and India. A tad bit unAmerican in my eyes and totally unnecessary.

Amicus

 

[xssve]

In manned space flight, it looks as though we will be third or fourth, behind China, Russia and India. A tad bit unAmerican in my eyes and totally unnecessary.

Amicus

But... who's going to pay for it?

 

[sr71plt]

But... who's going to pay for it?

Maybe that's why ami has skipped out on his taxes all these years--he's saving to fund a trip to Mars.

 

[amicus]

But... who's going to pay for it?[/QUOTE]

~~~

A consortium: a.An association or a combination, as of businesses, financial institutions, or investors, for the purpose of engaging in a joint venture.

I might add to the definition, 'a free association...'

You know, free enterprise, the bane of all control freaks.



ami

 

[amicus]

Was rather looking forward to a quick response to 'consortium', as some new thoughts, well, old ones renewed, arrived.

There remains a forlorn hope after forty years of debating Liberals, that one fine day a light would come on in at least one of those dim dark noggin's and at least one would understand the connection between a free society, free individuals and a free market system.

My position remains unchanged from the time I had enough knowledge to tell between right and wrong. Total laissez-faire free market open competion, no regulatiion, minimal government within constitutional guidelines and no creative jurisprudence.

Even if a light did suddenly bloom forth, you would never admit it and most of all, never tell me...thas all right...I don't mind...

Amicus

 

[xssve]

Oh, believe me, I'm hanging on your every word, really. But, how is that gong to happen when all the Randian supermen are on welfare?

 

[DeeZire]

My position remains unchanged from the time I had enough knowledge to tell between right and wrong. Total laissez-faire free market open competion, no regulatiion, minimal government within constitutional guidelines and no creative jurisprudence.

Even if a light did suddenly bloom forth, you would never admit it and most of all, never tell me...thas all right...I don't mind...

Amicus

You've already forgotten about your buddies on Wall Street crashing the economy with their unregulated credit default swaps? "Even if a light did suddenly bloom forth,.." Ami, Dude! The light bloomed forth a year ago. Open your eyes. The world does not exist within the pages of an Ayn Rand novel. The world exists down at the unemployment office, where millions of Americans are one government check away from starvation, thanks to you and your laissez-faire free market goons flushing the American dream down the toilet.

You want to talk about Right or Wrong? Talk to the head of household who is now camped out with his family at a homeless shelter, while lying scumbag Wall Street traders are basking in the sun on the beach at Cancun.

You want to talk about Right or Wrong? Go pay your back taxes, freeloader. You're the last guy here at LIT qualified to talk about right or wrong, since, obviously, you don't know the difference between the two.

 

[cloudy]

That's where Space Camp is held, isn't it?

Yes.

It's a HUGE deal around here, and kids really look forward to it. It's ungodly expensive, though, or I'd consider sending my youngest. He'd absolutely love it, but it's right around $900 for six days. Considering all the things they learn and get to do and experience (they get close to twenty hours of actual astronaut training, and go through a mission simulation on their last day), I suppose the price is fairly reasonable, but I can think of a whole lot of other things to do with $900, you know?

 

[amicus]

Post deleted...there will be no responses to DeeZire, Stephen55, sr71plt or Stella_Omega....at least not from me.

Amicus Veritas

 

[amicus]

Oh, believe me, I'm hanging on your every word, really. But, how is that gong to happen when all the Randian supermen are on welfare?

~~~

I wrote a Post intended for you, but directed it to the wrong person, my apologies.

The 'Supermen' of Galt's Gulch and the hero, Howard Roarck, in Fountainhead, were indeed Supermen, "as they could and ought to be..." in the words of Ayn Rand.

They were all, in my opinion, cardboard characters, almost comedic in some ways and served, as did Galt's Gulch, merely to fictionalize a philosophical premise and give form and structure to a work of fiction.

More than that, as I am learning in crafting a character for a novel, it was a learning process as Rand attempted to inculcate both a philosophy and a moral system into her characters and still keep the fiction within the boundaries of the possible.

John Galt was her ideal, perfect man, as a fictional character, there was a bit of Jesus in him during the torture and the esthete, Monk like nature, all exagerrated, like make-up on stage actors to enhance the appearance.

The hero's in modern day industrial giants are either behind the scenes or deeply flawed, like the Microsoft guru who gives his wealth away. This is addressed to former wealthy men and families as they were embarrassed into funding charitable foundations, in essence, giving it away instead of having it taxed away.

A form of Noblesse Oblige, which I have addressed before on this forum, in which the wealthy in a feudal or Monarchical society must ostentatiously give to the poor to gain status among his peers.

I question your premises when you criticize the wealthy innovators in a free enterprise setting, yet grant them Saintly status when they become part of government. All men have faults and frailties, they do not become God like when you imbue them with the power of State.

For many, they are just jealous that they were born less capable than othrs, in terms of intelligence quotients and an inner drive to succeed.

While one can advocate a system that treats all equal under the law, reality informs us daily, that some are born more equipped to deal with reality than are others.

Your stated philosophy, in so many words, and imprecise, seems to penalize the intelligent in order to succor those less fortunate in the gene pool. I question that as it is the upper few percentile of the intelligent that create the innovations that provide comfort for all.

I am an atheist; I do not and have never had blind belief in anything, be it theology or philosophy. I am not a teacher and do not pretend to be so on this forum. I have chosen instead to expose the total lack of reason and rationality of that part of the political spectrum that casually advocates the oppression of the mind and abilities of those who prosper in competition with others.

A hundred times I have asked for anyone advocating a controlled, regulated society, to justify in moral terms how you can use force to achieve your ends. I never receive even an attempt at an answer.

Perhaps one day you will take a whack at it?



Amicus