RJ's Building Blocks

[RJMasters]

Not sure I would worry too much about getting terminology correct as you will find a lot of people are probably not going to relatre as readily to what you are talking about as if you use more commonly or generalised terms. F deoes some great bondage and used to give demonstrations before my time...he is very good at getting a crotch knot in just the right spot to be majorly felt in just the way intended. Be careful though RJ that you don't have the same problem as can happen with things such as putting on ties, mastering it on oneself only to be all fingers and thumbs when you try and do it for another person...it is that different approach/perspective thing which turns it all upside down. Also too, you will find binding males and females are different when getting into intricate work, and self bondage impossible once you move beyond just torso and including more restrictive methods. HAve fun though as rope can be a gorgeous tool to work with. I just wish I didn't have such allergic reactions to it which restricts us to full cotton ropes if planning for me to be tied more than 30 minutes max, sometimes not even that.

Catalina

Yes thank you for the mentioning that. When I am tieing myself I do take the time to think on that. Paying attention to my hands. The rope moving under or over. How it enters and comes out of a tie for consistancy(i.e. not getting crossed).

I realize that there will have to be a transition from self to another. For some reason though my mind works good with visualizing then doing. Later I will share a bit of my personal approach.

I am sorry to hear about your alergic reactions. That must be fustrating to deal with. I imagine that comes up more than one would think and is probably a good reason to work with all different kinds of rope.

 

[RJMasters]

I'm glad Midori wrote her book. There is a lot of great information offered in it. The ProDomme I lived with has been a long time acquaintance of Midori, and Midori worked out of my Dommes dungeon in San Francisco. Ma'am, my Domme, lived in Japan for many years and taught bondage to women starting their own ProDomme business'. I had the great fortune to be the model for many of her classes. I would spend hours in that "diamond shaped Torso-crotch harness/Jomon" naked with nothing but the rope.

Standing there while being bound I remember the wonderful sensual pleasure of the rope being slowly drawn across my body. Whenever Ma'am moved, for instance, from the front of my body to the back she took plenty of time to draw the full length of the rope slowly over my shoulder - standing there, naked, no sounds, no music, no other touch, just the slow steady draw of the soft rope moving along my skin... mmmmmmmmm

RJ - thank you so much for sharing this adventure with us. I read every post everyone makes to this thread with interest, and occasional moments of warm physical stirrings. *prrrrrrr*

That makes me smile warmly Shank

I have to run out to be taxi-dad, but i'd like to ask you a few questions when I get a chance later.

 

[Shankara20]

That makes me smile warmly Shank

I have to run out to be taxi-dad, but i'd like to ask you a few questions when I get a chance later.

as you wish....

 

[RJMasters]

US west coast style shibari and its global siblings = "california roll." (still good, just not the most authentic of sushi) It's a mongrel art developing around a knot for which there IS no name in Japanese even, and which a bunch of American Geeks have designated "boola boola."

It's really good fusion. However the name game is really interesting, and I've been discouraged by my teachers from fixating on names for things which aren't even consistent within Japan. Some people who fixate on these things are crack researchers of what's going down in Japan, and others just are really into Japonisme.

The word "Shibari" as I understand it would confuse a Japanese rigger in all likelihood. It means "tie" or "bind" but in the engineering sense. Kinbaku-bi would be more intelligible as "erotic rope art"

but apparently the English word "bondage" is hip and cool lately

MOST Japanese nawa jujun (rope bottoms) would be offended by "dorei" (a borrowed Greek word actually for "slave") A lot of the models seem to like "m-jo short for "masochistic girl".

This is per my sources and reads.

If anyone could probably teach a branch close to "authentic" it's Midori, and she's often the first to point out things like "of course Japanese Nawashi are all barefoot, they don't WEAR shoes indoors!" when westerners are caught up in the romance of the barefoot Nawashi.


I'm not sweating the names at this point, but I *have* been fantasizing about seeing an Osada Steve show.

Ah thanks for the savy heads up Netzach. I knew that dorei had slavery connotations, so I can understand why a nawa jujun might not like it if they do not identify as such.

I had to laugh at the m-jo though as "m" is my wife's first intial and jo is her middle name. Should she ever take the plunge, that would fit nicely. Grinz.

A few days ago Rebecca had shown me a few sites that had Osada Steve. I know he is considered a master, yet at this point that is all I know about him. He is on my research list for progressive knowledge.

I really have enjoyed Midori's book, I think the open crab with bamboo rod would thaw an eskimo's igloo its so hot. There is such a level of helplessness and exposure there that fires my imagination on all cylinders.

 

[RJMasters]

as you wish....

Ahh back and to my questions/thoughts.

As I have been working with the rope there is something I have been enjoying and you mentioneded as well. The feel of the rope being drawn over the skin. For me, it the feel as it is pulled through my hands over and over.

It put in me an idea for warming up and forming a bond with a potential partner. Maybe there is a name for it already and i just haven't come across it yet, however I think one thing which would help for the bond between two and begin to set the stage and tempo for the coming scene, would be to spend some time just drawing the rope over the bottom. Perhaps even a loose loop around arm or leg and drawn through slowly while speaking low and calmly.

It would seem to me to be a great way to begin and a chance to warm up to the feel of the draw and sinking into the feeling of it along with the voice.

Thoughts/comments? What is your take on this idea.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I can see the beauty in doing nice rope work, as with perfecting a lot of techniques associated with SM, but I also see many who get lost in the appearance and being seen to do things perfectly at the expense of D/s or SM for what it is. It seems the more I read on various forums, the more I see a line being drawn where some are on the side of perfecting techniques such as flogging with various tricks and twists, rope work done in what is seen to be authentic Japanese style etc., where this becomes their focus of thought and action, and then those who are more focused on D/s and SM as a way of being where floggers, whips, bondage are all tools of the trade, but not the primary focus of what they do. Hmmm, mind is not working well tonight so this is not coming out how I want but what I am saying is there seems to be a trend for some in going toward performing SM as opposed to doing/living it or blending both without losing the focus of Dominance and submission and/or sadism and masochism.

Catalina

 

[RJMasters]

I can see the beauty in doing nice rope work, as with perfecting a lot of techniques associated with SM, but I also see many who get lost in the appearance and being seen to do things perfectly at the expense of D/s or SM for what it is. It seems the more I read on various forums, the more I see a line being drawn where some are on the side of perfecting techniques such as flogging with various tricks and twists, rope work done in what is seen to be authentic Japanese style etc., where this becomes their focus of thought and action, and then those who are more focused on D/s and SM as a way of being where floggers, whips, bondage are all tools of the trade, but not the primary focus of what they do. Hmmm, mind is not working well tonight so this is not coming out how I want but what I am saying is there seems to be a trend for some in going toward performing SM as opposed to doing/living it or blending both without losing the focus of Dominance and submission and/or sadism and masochism.

Catalina

Hmmm, going to think on this a bit. I see what you are saying.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I can see the beauty in doing nice rope work, as with perfecting a lot of techniques associated with SM, but I also see many who get lost in the appearance and being seen to do things perfectly at the expense of D/s or SM for what it is. It seems the more I read on various forums, the more I see a line being drawn where some are on the side of perfecting techniques such as flogging with various tricks and twists, rope work done in what is seen to be authentic Japanese style etc., where this becomes their focus of thought and action, and then those who are more focused on D/s and SM as a way of being where floggers, whips, bondage are all tools of the trade, but not the primary focus of what they do. Hmmm, mind is not working well tonight so this is not coming out how I want but what I am saying is there seems to be a trend for some in going toward performing SM as opposed to doing/living it or blending both without losing the focus of Dominance and submission and/or sadism and masochism.

Catalina

I am fairly certain I know what you are saying here Catalina and if I am correct I would agree . Losing some of the passion the power dynamics and subtle nature at times. I would hazard a guess however that some people actually in as much as other 'rituals ' satisfy find mastering a technique a part of a holistic approach to the experience. I understood what you said in your earlier post also about using plain terms so others understand, though in same I also enjoy the 'providence' of History in knowing more accurate terms because thats a part of my nature. I can therefore see why that may have an appeal to others. Good to see all sides considered huh.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am fairly certain I know what you are saying here Catalina and if I am correct I would agree . Losing some of the passion the power dynamics and subtle nature at times. I would hazard a guess however that some people actually in as much as other 'rituals ' satisfy find mastering a technique a part of a holistic approach to the experience. I understood what you said in your earlier post also about using plain terms so others understand, though in same I also enjoy the 'providence' of History in knowing more accurate terms because thats a part of my nature. I can therefore see why that may have an appeal to others. Good to see all sides considered huh.

Ah, 'tis mine also but I also see it as a way of alienating others you might not necessarily want to when using it in a general sense as opposed to your own informative cusiosity. I know when I was counselling full time I would come across a lot of workers who loved to apply and use all the correct terminology and label everything from that position, but in the end their clients and people from other sectors they had to work with would begin to feel as if they were on another planet and being made to feel stupid because rhey continually had to ask what they meant or else fake understanding. I knew the same terms and labels but never used them except in academic pieces of writing that required it as I wanted an across the board understanding and transparency. I found those who used them relentlessly often had an academic understanding but very little practical understanding of what they meant and where people were at.

What I see in BDSM circles is this ever increasing desire to be seen as perfect, present a pretty facade and be an expert in all techniques used, but very little work put into the psychology and actual human feeling and D/s exchange/relationship behind the moments, not to mention keeping that the focus, not the performance. I think that is why many people are surprised when we say we do not go into elaborate planning of scenes etc.,....it seems it is becoming expected that you have a scene as opposed to live it and be spontaneous, and that those scenes be planned and prepared for well in advance to make sure they look good and tick all the appropriate boxes. LOL, we just do it in the blink of an eyelid and then go back to what we were doing when the mood took us, and still it manages to look pretty good, but the focus remains on the D/s.

Catalina

 

[Shankara20]

Ahh back and to my questions/thoughts.

As I have been working with the rope there is something I have been enjoying and you mentioneded as well. The feel of the rope being drawn over the skin. For me, it the feel as it is pulled through my hands over and over.

It put in me an idea for warming up and forming a bond with a potential partner. Maybe there is a name for it already and i just haven't come across it yet, however I think one thing which would help for the bond between two and begin to set the stage and tempo for the coming scene, would be to spend some time just drawing the rope over the bottom. Perhaps even a loose loop around arm or leg and drawn through slowly while speaking low and calmly.

It would seem to me to be a great way to begin and a chance to warm up to the feel of the draw and sinking into the feeling of it along with the voice.

Thoughts/comments? What is your take on this idea.

I think it would be a wonderful way to start a rope scene. Sensation is important to me and taking the time to do a sort of "rope meditation" could help the bottom relax and open up to all the sensations available. It could also help establish a feeling of safety...

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/nbright1969/toys/File0012a1.jpg​

 

[the captians wench]

Ahh back and to my questions/thoughts.

As I have been working with the rope there is something I have been enjoying and you mentioneded as well. The feel of the rope being drawn over the skin. For me, it the feel as it is pulled through my hands over and over.

It put in me an idea for warming up and forming a bond with a potential partner. Maybe there is a name for it already and i just haven't come across it yet, however I think one thing which would help for the bond between two and begin to set the stage and tempo for the coming scene, would be to spend some time just drawing the rope over the bottom. Perhaps even a loose loop around arm or leg and drawn through slowly while speaking low and calmly.

It would seem to me to be a great way to begin and a chance to warm up to the feel of the draw and sinking into the feeling of it along with the voice.

Thoughts/comments? What is your take on this idea.

*purr* Sounds like a lovely idea.

I loved the feel of the rope being drawn around me when my friend used it in one of our sessions. It would have been wonderful to have extended it. That and he isn't much of a talker, but i love that deep soft mellow tone that he uses when he does. To hear more of the like. . . *purr*

 

[RJMasters]

I can see the beauty in doing nice rope work, as with perfecting a lot of techniques associated with SM, but I also see many who get lost in the appearance and being seen to do things perfectly at the expense of D/s or SM for what it is. It seems the more I read on various forums, the more I see a line being drawn where some are on the side of perfecting techniques such as flogging with various tricks and twists, rope work done in what is seen to be authentic Japanese style etc., where this becomes their focus of thought and action, and then those who are more focused on D/s and SM as a way of being where floggers, whips, bondage are all tools of the trade, but not the primary focus of what they do. Hmmm, mind is not working well tonight so this is not coming out how I want but what I am saying is there seems to be a trend for some in going toward performing SM as opposed to doing/living it or blending both without losing the focus of Dominance and submission and/or sadism and masochism.

Catalina

Ok I thought abut this...

I have developed a bit of a philosophy of my own as I am approaching this.

Because I am not hindered at the moment with the possibility that I can have a scene...it leaves me room to pursue this in a bit of a different way than one normally would.

IMO Form, technique, skill and style - these four are a process which one arrives through hard work and practice, however this is not an ends in and of it self, but more of a means to an end. As you have said, the rope is a tool.

The deeper reason is of course the exchange, and with that I can find no argument nor would I wish to. There is an absolute raw passion which sets my soul aflame. Binding one and bringing them under control, must be done not with just rope, but with the mental dance and exchange.

So I see before me a path I must walk(want to walk), in order that form, technique, skill and style do not interfer. These must become natural to me and second nature. My hands must move with confidence so that I may focus more upon the exchange.

One does not need elaborate rope work to acomplish a deeply satisfying time, yet fumbling around trying to think "if this should loop here or cross over here"... to me, this would be taking my thoughts away from the exchange and focusing it more upon the rope.

I do tend to be a perfectionist at things, but I appreciate the balanced remarks Cat. One of the things I appreciate about Midori's book is she gave equal amount of focus that goes on between the two people as she did in providing actual bondage positions.

So to sum up, the goal for me is to practice enough to be safe and be confident in what I am doing, as only then would I be able to get past the mechanics and focus more upon the exchange. I think I just have to be practical and realistic in knowing when that time has come and not let a perfectionist attitude ruin the ability to enjoy the simplicity of what I am doing to begin with.

 

[RJMasters]

I think it would be a wonderful way to start a rope scene. Sensation is important to me and taking the time to do a sort of "rope meditation" could help the bottom relax and open up to all the sensations available. It could also help establish a feeling of safety...

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/nbright1969/toys/File0012a1.jpg​

Thanks Shank. I get the safety comment, the thoughts running through the bottom. Feeling the sensation. The top communicating an understanding of the burn rate for the rope. Most of all communicating that you as a top are not in any rush or hurried.

Cool pic. Interesting to look at.

 

[RJMasters]

*purr* Sounds like a lovely idea.

I loved the feel of the rope being drawn around me when my friend used it in one of our sessions. It would have been wonderful to have extended it. That and he isn't much of a talker, but i love that deep soft mellow tone that he uses when he does. To hear more of the like. . . *purr*

ty cw for confirming my thoughts on this. Drawing rope across skin is and can be erotic. It also can communicate a bit of intimacy as its being done. I think it would not only make a great way to start, but also done throughout. Perhaps after a passioned paced till a certain point is reached then almost a calming pause while slowing drawing rope agin over the skin, letting the mind adjust tot he what just happened a moment before, and sink a bit deeper into submission.

I think this will be one of the things I incorporate into my style.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ok I thought abut this...

I have developed a bit of a philosophy of my own as I am approaching this.

Because I am not hindered at the moment with the possibility that I can have a scene...it leaves me room to pursue this in a bit of a different way than one normally would.

IMO Form, technique, skill and style - these four are a process which one arrives through hard work and practice, however this is not an ends in and of it self, but more of a means to an end. As you have said, the rope is a tool.

The deeper reason is of course the exchange, and with that I can find no argument nor would I wish to. There is an absolute raw passion which sets my soul aflame. Binding one and bringing them under control, must be done not with just rope, but with the mental dance and exchange.

So I see before me a path I must walk(want to walk), in order that form, technique, skill and style do not interfer. These must become natural to me and second nature. My hands must move with confidence so that I may focus more upon the exchange.

One does not need elaborate rope work to acomplish a deeply satisfying time, yet fumbling around trying to think "if this should loop here or cross over here"... to me, this would be taking my thoughts away from the exchange and focusing it more upon the rope.

I do tend to be a perfectionist at things, but I appreciate the balanced remarks Cat. One of the things I appreciate about Midori's book is she gave equal amount of focus that goes on between the two people as she did in providing actual bondage positions.

So to sum up, the goal for me is to practice enough to be safe and be confident in what I am doing, as only then would I be able to get past the mechanics and focus more upon the exchange. I think I just have to be practical and realistic in knowing when that time has come and not let a perfectionist attitude ruin the ability to enjoy the simplicity of what I am doing to begin with.

I can see where you are coming from....it was more a general observation, not you personally. Mind you, as much as yoiu hate the idea of fumbling or making mistakes, those fumblings can create some magic moments, and no-one is perfect so no matter how well you prepare, there are going to be times things don't go well or as planned. Sometimes a sub will find that more reassuring and endearing than a perfect being who seems almost inhuman in their ability to never do wrong...that can be very intimidating in a bad way, and can get boring and predictable as well. There has to be room for both light and darkness to make a complete picture.

Catalina

 

[the captians wench]

ty cw for confirming my thoughts on this. Drawing rope across skin is and can be erotic. It also can communicate a bit of intimacy as its being done. I think it would not only make a great way to start, but also done throughout. Perhaps after a passioned paced till a certain point is reached then almost a calming pause while slowing drawing rope agin over the skin, letting the mind adjust tot he what just happened a moment before, and sink a bit deeper into submission.

I think this will be one of the things I incorporate into my style.

it was a very interesting feeling. He made sort of a thong, and then a bra usuing the same rope. Then he continued to flog me. Periodically he would pull on a rope here or there and hold it making it tighter on me. Then release and go back to floging. some times he'd pull the front of the "thong" and press the rope hard against my clit. Was very intence. Sort of a distraction every now and then to relax me.

 

[RJMasters]

Well good as place as any to post this.

Looks like I might be scrambling here over the next few weeks/month for a new job. Company in Vegas is undergoing some re-structuring and new president and stuff all coming on and cuts are being made across the board.

As it stand right now I just got a call from the old president and says basiclly my head is also on the chopping block due to the fact I live in California. He basically said I got 3 days in which to convince the new president of my value or I'm out.

So if you don't see much posting from me, its because RL has other things planned for me at this time which require my immediate attention.

If I do lose this income, it may also mean I lose the opportunity to finish my college courses. So alot is riding on this.

I will keep you all posted as to what happens. Thanks for those who have been supportive of me in this thread and any positive thoughts you want to send my way.

Rich

 

[Shankara20]

Well good as place as any to post this.

Looks like I might be scrambling here over the next few weeks/month for a new job. Company in Vegas is undergoing some re-structuring and new president and stuff all coming on and cuts are being made across the board.

As it stand right now I just got a call from the old president and says basiclly my head is also on the chopping block due to the fact I live in California. He basically said I got 3 days in which to convince the new president of my value or I'm out.

So if you don't see much posting from me, its because RL has other things planned for me at this time which require my immediate attention.

If I do lose this income, it may also mean I lose the opportunity to finish my college courses. So alot is riding on this.

I will keep you all posted as to what happens. Thanks for those who have been supportive of me in this thread and any positive thoughts you want to send my way.

Rich

Oh damn - RJ, my heart goes out to you and your family during this time of change and uncertainty.

Wishing you all the bast, Shank



.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hmmm, did you get to order that special treat as yet? Hope things turn up for you as I know what it is like feeling uncertain about financial futures when you have a family counting on you, and a life you would like to be living in the way you would prefer. Can't have the college course put on hold for a time until everything settles? I know in Oz and The Netherlands you can, but don't know much about US policy on such things. Either way know our thoughts and positive vibes are with you.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

...............

 

[Netzach]

I can see the beauty in doing nice rope work, as with perfecting a lot of techniques associated with SM, but I also see many who get lost in the appearance and being seen to do things perfectly at the expense of D/s or SM for what it is. It seems the more I read on various forums, the more I see a line being drawn where some are on the side of perfecting techniques such as flogging with various tricks and twists, rope work done in what is seen to be authentic Japanese style etc., where this becomes their focus of thought and action, and then those who are more focused on D/s and SM as a way of being where floggers, whips, bondage are all tools of the trade, but not the primary focus of what they do. Hmmm, mind is not working well tonight so this is not coming out how I want but what I am saying is there seems to be a trend for some in going toward performing SM as opposed to doing/living it or blending both without losing the focus of Dominance and submission and/or sadism and masochism.

Catalina

I come at rope from an aesthetic and cooperative place. The D/s in rope play, for me, is fairly veiled and quiet, because I've found that force is not really a good place for me to suspend from, the communication is not something that's done beforehand and carried into the play as a given the way that it might be with a whipping or another kind of scene, it's always in effect.

The bottom has to have a way to stop the action even if the top thinks it could easily continue - at least when I do rope. If I'm not in it I really have no clue, even if I've done the tie 80 times or been in it 80 times it's always different.

I don't think tying my lover as a beautiful and exposed aesthetic treat is exactly "vanilla" but I don't really find much of a drive to do sadism with this kind of work. Even when I do a predicament the way that M processes pain is totally different in rope.

I also have no issues with the enjoyment of the performative aspects of rope and I see this as a valid art form as much as it can be a way for people to express sexually.

You never lose track of your bottom or the experience they are having - but your goals change when you are working as a team toward an aesthetic result. I don't think you can dismiss this as a "trend."

A person could do ponyplay with no gear whatsoever, after all horses are naked. But a lot of equine players will never get to headspace like that.

 

[shy slave]

RJ
I hope all aspects of RL work out for you, please keep us posted and know we are all thinking of you

 

[catalina_francisco]

I come at rope from an aesthetic and cooperative place. The D/s in rope play, for me, is fairly veiled and quiet, because I've found that force is not really a good place for me to suspend from, the communication is not something that's done beforehand and carried into the play as a given the way that it might be with a whipping or another kind of scene, it's always in effect.

The bottom has to have a way to stop the action even if the top thinks it could easily continue - at least when I do rope. If I'm not in it I really have no clue, even if I've done the tie 80 times or been in it 80 times it's always different.

I don't think tying my lover as a beautiful and exposed aesthetic treat is exactly "vanilla" but I don't really find much of a drive to do sadism with this kind of work. Even when I do a predicament the way that M processes pain is totally different in rope.

I also have no issues with the enjoyment of the performative aspects of rope and I see this as a valid art form as much as it can be a way for people to express sexually.

You never lose track of your bottom or the experience they are having - but your goals change when you are working as a team toward an aesthetic result. I don't think you can dismiss this as a "trend."

A person could do ponyplay with no gear whatsoever, after all horses are naked. But a lot of equine players will never get to headspace like that.

I don't think it is a trend, but I do see a lot confusing it as one. I agree with you in that it's beauty has a place, and that it often does not couple with SM play, and definately that it is different for each person, each time. F usually leaves a slip knot in his work so if anything unplanned happens, I am able to release the bondage alone. Mind you it is not always in the easiest of places to get hold of, nor do I find I ask where he has done it anymore.

Catalina

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Cheer Up Mr Masters ~ Pressie No 1

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c224/rebecca000/ITL6MM_FULL.jpg

Italian, hand spun Cashmere 6MM ​

 

[RJMasters]

Hmmm, did you get to order that special treat as yet? Hope things turn up for you as I know what it is like feeling uncertain about financial futures when you have a family counting on you, and a life you would like to be living in the way you would prefer. Can't have the college course put on hold for a time until everything settles? I know in Oz and The Netherlands you can, but don't know much about US policy on such things. Either way know our thoughts and positive vibes are with you.

Catalina

Not yet, I was going to order it today, but think I am going to wait till towards the end of this month now till things get settled here.

I got a picture of it though hanging up so I can continue to look at it. Its not a matter of if, but when it will be mine.

The college deal is a bit wierd in that its already paid for provided that I continue to attend without interuption. So that doesn't figure into the cost or is not the issue. The issue is more maintaining the other monthly income so that I have the time to be able to go to school.