River Night - comments, questions, reasonably phrased complaints welcome

[watergirl]

I've submitted a story to lit which has now been put up
and would love any specific, constructive criticism -

here is a link

River Night

"Please be honest - this is for posterity." - the 6 fingered man

 

[Xodus]

Very well written, watergirl
I do tend to enjoy dialog in the sex scenes though. But, that's probably just the horny male in me

 

[watergirl]

xodus - you might like these better -

Showers & Moans

and

chapter 2

But this wasn't about them! but maybe it should be, since they are posted.. i admit - they are a bit.. generic and schlocky. first attempts... but with dialogue

 

[Xodus]

I did like them better, thanks

 

[Wicked-N-Erotic]

Nice story. It has a few typo's and grammer mistakes but it flowed nicely. I agree that more dialogue would have been a great enhancement but it was well done nonetheless.

Wicked

 

[PaulX35]

Nice one

"...It has a few typo's and grammer mistakes..."

W-N-E,
You could not have been more concise in your own, I think

Paul

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I think maybe you sing your own praises in here a little too much. You're one with the river, he's not; you're graceful he's not; you trust the river, he doesn't; you're naked, he's not, etc. etc. It doesn't seem to jibe with the intimacy you're trying to establish for the actual sex scene and--for me anyhow--it alienates me from the narrator. I'm very sensitive to narrators telling me how cool they are. It turns me right off.

I suppose you must be aware of how many symbols of death there are in the piece. Not only the graveyard at the start (what was that for?) but a river at night speaks pretty clearly of death as well. Her swimming underwater in the dark, all that stuff. More than that, there's a lot of blatant mentions of death and dying throughout the piece. She talks about maybe just swimming off and dying in the river, she talks about the dangers in the waterm there's others I don't recall.

I have a personal problem too because rivers mean something different to me. Most of the rivers I'm familiar with are not fit for swimming in, and actually are filled with all sorts of nasty stuff in the bottom and the water itself. Probably that's just me. And I know you've put in specific menytions of a sandy beach and pleasure boats to show us it's a recreational river, but still... If you've ever stepped on a piece of rusty ,etal coated in river ooze you'd know what I mean.

I can't help but think it would have worked even better had yougiven us an intimation at the start tyhat this relationship was ending. It would have given new meaning to everything she did and to the sex as well.

But I do like the way your bring the world at large into the story. That's one of my favorite things to do and it makes a story so much richer. It's a nice piece.

---dr.M.

 

[watergirl]

WOW. COOL. Sorry for the all caps - But thank you, Dr. M. -

This is really the kind of the type of criticism I was looking for. You've read a lot into the piece that I didn't concioulsy include, and I find it interesting - your thoughts about dying, and the river as a 'safe recreational' one.

I would consider this piece half non-fiction, half fantasy. The graveyard, stairs, river, and boats are as described. The sex never happened. The tree, near kiss, and skinny dipping did.

Woah - your comment that I sing my own praises too much was a stopper - I was immediatlely caught by the thought, "What??? In this thread? I hope not - I didn't mean to brag about the story, just to ask for feedback!" But, then I saw that you mean, "you, the narrator." And then I thought, my I'm paranoid, and my hackles went back down... The narrator is not me, it's just a female narrator.... so - hmm. I'm thinking that dialogue could indeed have improved it, and dialogue about what you suggest - the ending of the relationship - would have given the story a more thoughtful, deeper tone. I haven't pushed myself to ever write long pieces, and I think that concluding a piece is one of my big weak points.....

So, this is good - advice to mull over. The river I describe does exist, and it is pretty safe, rust/muck/bottom wise. Some sharp clamshells, but not a lot of industrial debris. Hmm... I'm not sure what else to say at this point... You are right, it is rather morbid for a fantasy piece... I was in an odd mood when I wrote it, and fired it off to lit after a spell check. I need to become more patient and let things settle on a back burner sometimes. Things to think about.

Thank you all, again -
watergirl

 

[watergirl]

W-N-E -

typos and grammar errors - could you would you be a love and
point them out to me? I'm not being snot, just would like to know. I didn't find them the first time, so I might have considered them choices, not errors.

Also - new av? I like it!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Watergirl,

I tend to pretty spare with my praise and just concentrate on the weak points. (After all, it's a'critigue' right? Not a 'praisique'.) But after readinng your response I thought I should make a point of telling you how much I liked what you're trying to do here and that I really think you should pursue this type of writing. It's such a ref;oef from the usualy in-and-out type of thing you see here and really makes an effort to treat sex subjectively and put it into a broader context. In other words, it aspires to literature rather than just pornography.

Yeah, there are a lot of death images in it, but that's an aspect of sex too, and there's nothing wrong with that. The end of a relationship is a death, and death certainly has a heavily erotic side to it. Your basic image of a river at night is really good, the idea of losing oneself in the dark waters just as one surrenders to pleasure and desire works on so many levels that I could have a field day doing a freshman-English type symbolic analysis of what it all means. And I don't think you were conscious of the symbolism at the time. You didn't say "Hey, I'll let the river stand for the currents of life and have her be a swimmer in it." It just came to you, which is how symbolism really should work. Conscious symbols are always pretty clunky.

That problem with polluted rivers is, I hope, just a personal thing of mine, and I think it could be addressed just by choice of language and by a little description. Or maybe it works because of my associations. But that shouldn't dissuade you from using the river.

I figured the cemetray was taken from real life. It was too surprising for you to have put it in just because it seemed 'right' to you. But it really stayed with me throughout the story. I don't know if I'd take it out. I might just offer more of an explanation, like 'they had to cross an old cemetary to get to the stairs' or something.

My problem with the narrator wouldn't exist if it were told in third person. It's just when someone starts crowing in first person that I dtart to grimace. But I don't know if that's just me or if other readers would mind that. I tend to think it's just me.

And I wouldn't confuse 'ending' and story with 'concluding' it. A story ends when the main emotional reverberations have died away. It concludes when they 'all live happily ever after' or they all die in the quicksand. In real life, very few stories conclude neatly. It's okay to do that in fiction too. You can leave us to figure out for ourselves how it concludes.

All the best,

---dr.M.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

P.S. Don't much like the Av. Looks like a bald woman with stomach cramps.

---dr.M.

 

[watergirl]

Ahh - and thanks again! I'm laughing about the av comment - interesting.. tell me what you think of this new one...

Thank you for the praise on the piece, as well.. I've goten a few generic 'praisicisms' from it on lit, now.. which are nice - but I like thoughtful remarks much better.. comes from once thinking I'd be an English major, and then a teacher.. I think I'm better off as a painter.