RIP Tom Clancy

[sr71plt]

What part of he didn't do what you want to give him respect for doing don't YOU get?

Fine to give him respect for what he did do, but you are being really, really, really stubbornly stupid in the face of reality. Congrats. You have an honored place among the thickheaded.

He was the creation of the publishing industry. His first book (a good idea) was totally re-researched and rewritten, his second book was ghostwritten by Larry Bond, his next few books were pretty much created by Putnam from staff and hired military experts, although he did do much of the actual writing--he did know how to write and tell a story. He wasn't a military expert. He was an insurance salesmen with an undergraduate English literature degree, and he wasn't in the military ever; he was 4F'd because of near blindness. He was spoon fed all of the military stuff, initially by his next-door neighbor, who was a naval expert and author who connected him with the naval war game that was the basis for the book, later by a whole bunch of naval experts happy to be paid to help him.

However, he cleaned up real well as the face in front of the franchise.

You can't very well be jealous of something someone didn't really do.

But apparently you can be fooled to lionize someone for what they didn't do.

And maybe if you keep getting hit with reality some of it will sink in.

Go look it up.

 

[LadyVer]

 

[RoyceConnors]

What part of he didn't do what you want to give him respect for doing don't YOU get?

Fine to give him respect for what he did do, but you are being really, really, really stubbornly stupid in the face of reality. Congrats. You have an honored place among the thickheaded.

He was the creation of the publishing industry. His first book (a good idea) was totally re-researched and rewritten, his second book was ghostwritten by Larry Bond, his next few books were pretty much created by Putnam from staff and hired military experts, although he did do much of the actual writing--he did know how to write and tell a story. He wasn't a military expert. He was an insurance salesmen with an undergraduate English literature degree, and he wasn't in the military ever; he was 4F'd because of near blindness. He was spoon fed all of the military stuff, initially by his next-door neighbor, who was a naval expert and author who connected him with the naval war game that was the basis for the book, later by a whole bunch of naval experts happy to be paid to help him.

However, he cleaned up real well as the face in front of the franchise.

You can't very well be jealous of something someone didn't really do.

But apparently you can be fooled to lionize someone for what they didn't do.

And maybe if you keep getting hit with reality some of it will sink in.

Go look it up.

You're just a totally INSENSITIVE FUCKING IDIOT AND YOU NEED A FUCKING GOOD SLAP UPSIDE THE HEAD. It's not about his writing , it's about paying respects to a man who has died, period.

No wonder you live in a basement, you're a fucking troll.

 

[StrangeLife]

His first book (a good idea) was totally re-researched and rewritten, his second book was ghostwritten by Larry Bond, his next few books were pretty much created by Putnam from staff and hired military experts, although he did do much of the actual writing...

You could say something similar about James Patterson, just to pick a random example.

But if the books are good, does it matter how they were produced? Does it matter if it was written by an ascetic monk on papyrus, by a guy with a typewriter or by an assembly of several people working under a common pseudonym or brand?

So Tom Clancy's writing tools may have included a research staff and a few ghost writers, but he still wrote... ok lets say "produced"... some great books.

 

[LadyVer]

I'm of the opinion most writers are just trying to make a buck, because they, like everyone else, has bills to pay and likes to eat. Some of them try to hide that fact by saying a real writer only works a certain way.

have bills to pay and like to eat. LOL And I was thinking of writing. Silly me.

 

[sr71plt]

You're just a totally INSENSITIVE FUCKING IDIOT AND YOU NEED A FUCKING GOOD SLAP UPSIDE THE HEAD. It's not about his writing , it's about paying respects to a man who has died, period.

No wonder you live in a basement, you're a fucking troll.

Ummm, no. You are trying to lionize someone by giving him credit that belongs to other folks.

And you just don't get it.

 

[sr71plt]

You could say something similar about James Patterson, just to pick a random example.

But if the books are good, does it matter how they were produced? Does it matter if it was written by an ascetic monk on papyrus, by a guy with a typewriter or by an assembly of several people working under a common pseudonym or brand?

So Tom Clancy's writing tools may have included a research staff and a few ghost writers, but he still wrote... ok lets say "produced"... some great books.

I can't think of another author who was created as a best-seller before he did something other than have a good book idea, no--unless maybe for some people who were already celebrities or politicians--which was not the case with Clancy.

And, no it doesn't matter much as long as the books are good.

That's not the point here. Some idiots are demanding genuflecting for something not done just because Clancy is dead. It does matter that they want to lionize him for someone else's work and that they show zero understanding of the publishing industry on a writing site. We can be sorry he's dead without leveling demands that he be lionized at the expense of those who actually did the work.

It was, first, The Naval Institute Press, and second, Putnam, that produced some great books. They did so by using Tom Clancy. He didn't do so by using Putnam. And when he demanded to have personal control, his books started to be duds.

You too seem to not get that he didn't write the two really good books produced under his name. Jim Sutton essentially (re)wrote the The Hunt for the Red October and Larry Bond was the ghostwriter for Red Storm Rising.

I can hardly believe the stupidity that has floated around on this thread. No, I'll take that back, I can.

This supposedly is an author's hangout. Not much understanding of the publishing industry being displayed here. A lot of thickheadedness, though.

Obviously this is going around in circles with some folks here completely out to sea--which is a good naval way to wrap it up, I guess. As Judge Judy likes to say, some folks are dumb forever.

 

[LadyVer]

You're full of crap, Pilot.

 

[StrangeLife]

I'm of the opinion most writers are just trying to make a buck, because they, like everyone else, has bills to pay and likes to eat...

On the other hand, some of the worlds most famous classic art was produced by starving artists in dingy Parisian attics. Maybe starving would improve a writers work?

I think I'll skip the fries next time I go to Mac D, so watch out for my next story. It might be a master piece of racy literature...

 

[LadyVer]

On the other hand, some of the worlds most famous classic art was produced by starving artists in dingy Parisian attics. Maybe starving would improve a writers work?

I think I'll skip the fries next time I go to Mac D, so watch out for my next story. It might be a master piece of racy literature...

I think I'll use my sentence in a story. Then when the editor corrects it in TC, I'll say, sorry, it has special meaning. It has to stay.

Well, being poor sure motivated J. K. Rowling, among others.

 

[sr71plt]

This whole issue, incidentally, is pretty much analogous to the lunacy of demanding that JFK receive respect for writing the Pulitzer Prize-winning Profiles in Courage--which was actually written by Theodore Sorensen.

 

[LadyVer]

This whole issue, incidentally, is pretty much analogous to demanding that JFK receive respect for writing the Pulitzer Prize-winning Profiles in Courage--which was actually written by Theodore Sorensen.

Not totally.

 

[sr71plt]

Not totally.

Some of the demands on this thread for respect are, yes--the ones about Clancy's authorship and the one about his military expertise. Beyond that, there isn't much left. Other than really, really good hoodwinking PR, of course. (But then Joe Kennedy paid for that on the Profiles in Courage too.)

 

[desertslave]

This whole issue, incidentally, is pretty much analogous to demanding that JFK receive respect for writing the Pulitzer Prize-winning Profiles in Courage--which was actually written by Theodore Sorensen.

I don't understand why it bothers you so much if some folks liked the books with Clancy's name on them, and are sorry that he's gone relatively young.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't understand why it bothers you so much if some folks liked the books with Clancy's name on them, and are sorry that he's gone relatively young.

It doesn't. That has nothing to do with the issue here that does bother me--or with what some are demanding that he be given respect for. So, I don't see any relevance in your post other than to try an irrelevant attack from some other angle just to support hubbie.

I haven't said I didn't like the books that Jim Sutton and Larry Bond wrote and I did say that I was sorry that Clancy died so young. I even liked Patriots Games (a bit--the part about the intelligence community and Jack Ryan doing everything was really off the wall, but it was a fun, fanciful read) that Putnam put together.

 

[LadyVer]

Some of the demands on this thread for respect are, yes--the ones about Clancy's authorship and the one about his military expertise. Beyond that, there isn't much left. Other than really, really good hoodwinking PR, of course. (But then Joe Kennedy paid for that on the Profiles in Courage too.)

I hear God commissioned the Bible too. We're all still paying for that one.

 

[slyc_willie]

I hear God commissioned the Bible too. We're all still paying for that one.

Your argument being what, exactly?

Oh, right. I think I hear the sound-byte department warming up.

. . . .

Tom Clancy was, by no means, a good writer. He had his moments, as nearly all amateurs have, and he gained by being in the right place at the right time. He was, for all intents and purposes, a good face to attach to the covers of the novels attributed him.

But he won't go down in history as a master of prose, or really, a master of anything. Except, perhaps, as a master of being in the right place at the right time. I can give him credit for that.

The legacy of his Jack Ryan novels is a twisted one. Clancy came up with some truly wondrous adventure yarns, comparable in scope, if not in execution, with those of Clive Cussler. Problem is, Clancy banked much on his associations with those in the know while Cussler decided to wing it. Clancy may have come out ahead, but I think his "writerly" failings have been overshadowed by his popularity. But that's the way of things, I think, when it comes to the New York Times bestseller list.

I can, personally, lament the passing of a fellow writer. I have to say, however, that Clancy rode on too many coat tails in his career, and I think due respect (since that particular motif seems to be present in this thread) should be given to those who helped push Clancy up a ladder he could never have climbed himself.

So, R.I.P. Tom Clancy, but also R.I.P. the careers (at least for the nonce) of his ghost writers, researchers, and support staff.

 

[LadyVer]

Your argument being what, exactly?

Oh, right. I think I hear the sound-byte department warming up.

What's your point, slyc?

Everyone has their own opinion about authors. To take someone's RIP thread on an author and use it as a platform to repetitively state the dead author wasn't great because he wasn't as good as he should have been is crass, to say the least.

 

[StrangeLife]

It does matter that they want to lionize him for someone else's work and that they show zero understanding of the publishing industry on a writing site. We can be sorry he's dead without leveling demands that he be lionized at the expense of those who actually did the work.

Winston Churchill is frequently credited with saving Britain during World War 2 despite not firing a single shot himself and Adolph Hitler is vilified for causing millions of people to lose their lives, but to my knowledge he never personally harmed anybody. Do you have an iPhone? Do you think it's made by Apple in Cupertino? No, it's actually made by unnamed engineers at Foxconn in China after an idea by Apple and sold under Apples brand.

Analogous we can say that some great books were created "under the banner" of Tom Clancy.

You too seem to not get that he didn't write the two really good books produced under his name. Jim Sutton essentially (re)wrote the The Hunt for the Red October and Larry Bond was the ghostwriter for Red Storm Rising.

Oh I get it alright. But the real question for me is, would I have had the pleasure of reading those books if not for Tom Clancy?

Maybe his real talent was knowing the right people in the publishing industry or assembling the right team of ghost writers - so what? Whatever the man actually did, he was instrumental in creating several good books and deserves credit for that.

I can hardly believe the stupidity that has floated around on this thread. No, I'll take that back, I can.

This supposedly is an author's hangout. Not much understanding of the publishing industry being displayed here. A lot of thickheadedness, though.

Lack of knowledge and stupidity are two very different animals.

An author is somebody who writes - period. Knowledge of how the publishing industry works is not a prerequisite for being a writer just as knowing the intricacies of the record industry isn't a condition for being a musician.

 

[Chiara23]

The true mark of a man's success or greatness isn't the number of people he's kicked down the stairs to get to where he is, but the number of people whom he's brought up the stairs with him. I don't know much about Tom Clancy, but I suspect there are a number of people in the world who may owe some of their own success to his, and there's no shame in that.

I wonder how many people here liken themselves to be the next Asimov, Heinlein, Tolkien or Clarke? Or who hold themselves in the same regard that those men truly deserve as consummate writers?

Bashing a dead man and each other is kind of pointless in the whole scheme of the universe don't you think?

Pretty sure I'll get bashed for this post but I don't really care. LOL

 

[slyc_willie]

Your argument being what, exactly?

Oh, right. I think I hear the sound-byte department warming up.

What's your point, slyc?

Everyone has their own opinion about authors. To take someone's RIP thread on an author and use it as a platform to repetitively state the dead author wasn't great because he wasn't as good as he should have been is crass, to say the least.

My point was that sometimes, people like to post what they think is a clever little quip, when it isn't.

And crass, in this context, is praising someone for taking credit for someone else's work. I have no personal beef with Clancy, I have just always been a little annoyed that so much praise has been heaped upon him when that praise is for work others have done. The Hunt for Red October was a very good story, and well-written. It just wasn't written by Clancy.

So, like I said, R.I.P. Tom Clancy. But if you want to remember someone, try to remember them in their entirety.

 

[sr71plt]

Your argument being what, exactly?

Oh, right. I think I hear the sound-byte department warming up.

What's your point, slyc?

Everyone has their own opinion about authors. To take someone's RIP thread on an author and use it as a platform to repetitively state the dead author wasn't great because he wasn't as good as he should have been is crass, to say the least.

Haven't actually read the thread, have you, Lady V? Each one of my statements followed yet another praise of him for something he didn't do. Yes, it's too bad he's dead. It's also too bad these folks can't praise him for something he actually did rather than steal the credit from others and show how little they understand the publishing industry. (How easily they can be fooled.)

Why no comment for those repetitively making statements of praise that are verifiably false and insensitive and insulting to folks who actually did the work?

 

[RoyceConnors]

Haven't actually read the thread, have you, Lady V? Each one of my statements followed yet another praise of him for something he didn't do. Yes, it's too bad he's dead. It's also too bad these folks can't praise him for something he actually did rather than steal the credit from others and show how little they understand the publishing industry. (How easily they can be fooled.)

Why no comment for those repetitively making statements of praise that are verifiably false and insensitive and insulting to folks who actually did the work?

There you go with the whole thing about praise. It's not about praising the man for what he did, or didn't do, it's about paying respects to a man, PERIOD. It doesn't matter if he was a writer, actor or celebrity chef, the man died, we pay our respects to that man, not his body of work.

You have absolutely no concept of honour and integrity, nor do you understand the meaning of being a gentleman.

 

[sr71plt]

There you go with the whole thing about praise. It's not about praising the man for what he did, or didn't do, it's about paying respects to a man, PERIOD. It doesn't matter if he was a writer, actor or celebrity chef, the man died, we pay our respects to that man, not his body of work.

You have absolutely no concept of honour and integrity, nor do you understand the meaning of being a gentleman.

Then pay respects to the man (I did). Don't just praise him for what he didn't do and then have a tantrum when it's pointed out that you picked false things to praise him for--because this thread is the light that's going to be cast on that.

You're a bit beyond talking to anyone about honor or being a gentleman, Royce.

I was speaking to the honor of those who actually did what Clancy was praised for doing here.

 

[RoyceConnors]

Then pay respects to the man (I did). Don't just praise him for what he didn't do and then have a tantrum when it's pointed out that you picked false things to praise him for--because this thread is the light that's going to be cast on that.

You're a bit beyond talking to anyone about honor or being a gentleman, Royce.

I was speaking to the honor of those who actually did what Clancy was praised for doing here.

You're just an imbecile. Debase his writing some other time, not in a memorial thread. Just say sorry to hear he passed and stay the fuck quiet about anything else. Start your own thread about what he did and didn't do, just not in this time and place.